New Pattern Amongst Rep's With Abortion: Stupidity

As a male who enjoys pleasuring himself, I can vouch for this. You're never too young to start.

Edit - Oh, excellent pager.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/26/texas-abortion-vote-defeated-deadline-wendy-davis

I'm impressed with the citizens who cheered for the last 15 minutes in order to make sure their voices were heard.

Right... so them rapists should have taken the personal responsibility to wear a condom correct?

Or is it the woman's personal responsibility to wear a chastity belt when out in public?

You would find most prolife supporters carve out exceptions for rape and incest. I think something like ONE PERCENT of abortions are for pregnancies from the result of rape or incest, yet the most strident pro death supporters use these extreme examples. And how likely is it really that a rape victim would wait 20 weeks to abort the pregnancy?

If he was smart...

It is kinda hard to argue against taking personal responsibility into account when you use the vast minority (who are usually excused in the argument anyways) to try and make your point... '

Not saying which way is better or worse just that it's a pretty weak argument to make...

tell that to those poor *** in the maldives!

Lol pro death.

Coming from the mouth of someone who supports our policy of perpetual war, thats amusing as ***.

Whatever happened to gov't staying out of the lives of citizens anyway?

Why are bedroom activities so important?

I'm pro killing babies.

There are too goddamn many people and the more opportunities there are to kill them off before we can get attached to them the better.

Seriously though, abortions are going to happen. The only discussion that should be taking place is an examination of what merits coat hanger based abortions offer that make them preferable to medical facilities. I can't think of any, but apparently there's a lot of people out there that think that's the better method.

the hell i do

Waitafrickingminuet.

I would remind you of the thread's tittle: New Pattern Amongst Rep's with Abortion: Stupidity.

Ten, presumably a Republican, made a stupid comment related to abortion and rape. Indeed, in this thread, personal responsibility is somewhat of a red herring. I merely pointed this out.

TLDR: it wasn't an argument, it was a poke at Ten.

I'm not.

I'm pro giving people the opportunity to make their own decisions based on arguments presented from both sides. If you want to take the position that every time you abort a baby, God's head whistles like a teapot and the next Hurricane Sandy is on our heads then fine, do so.

If your argument stems from resources and trying to stem poverty/overpopulation or some quasi-eugenics position then go for it but what really chafes my hide is trying to force people who don't want kids to give birth to them for whatever reason because we all know how much effort humans put in when they don't want to do something. That eventually affects everyone.

Personal responsibility my *** when you intentionally sabotage the system so poor people are kept ignorant and forced to grovel before your religious institutions when they end up pregnant and 16 because hormones dictate hanky panky while the brain has no idea said behavior results in a bundle of flesh that consumes resources exponentially. It's your fault! But we set up the rules so it'd be that way.

If abortion is such a big deal and the goal is to limit the number of procedures performed then where is the comprehensive sex ed courses to stem teen pregnancy? Where are the attempts to educate women on birth control options? Where is the education on how to maintain a stable family? Adoption encouragement and reforms?

Oh right, it doesn't exist because this boils down to a stupid religious argument detached from reality and steeped in emotions for most.

they think it should all be done at the home, but then we just circle back to the same problems of uneducated parents or, which is probably more often the case, parents in denial or apathetic. sad times.

As a father of three, I will do my part, but if this future generation is anything similar to ours, I'll be in the minority. which is fine, because if I'm a grandpa in my forties, I'm gonna have to go a rampage of some form.

I once heard an argument that they should be left to the coathanger method in that darwinism takes em out that way or the mangle their bits up so they're no longer fertile... /sigh

It was a lame poke at Ten then?

Programs cost money... you have to seek out extra staff and develop plans... it conflicts with certain ideoligies... some parents don't want their kids to be taught about sexual relations by some stranger... there are plenty of barriers...

I guess the argument that our youth and their guardians are too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE on their own to form any semblance of an education for the kids under their care doesn't sit all that well with me either... granted there are things that people just wouldn't know but there are things that you should know and be able to pass along and for the things you don't... it shouldn't be all that hard to ask... or should we just put everything at the administrations feet and say hey fix this for us because we're too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to do it ourselves... then complain if we think they go too far or don't do it right...

Not all pro-life advocates have a religious background or even use religion as a basis for that line of thought... personally I am pro-life and it has nothing to do with any sort of religion... though I also don't have an agenda to push my personal beliefs on others...

that's disgusting.

Yeah... it came up because we're both pro-life but I was explaining to the person why I would not step in the way of others and that was part of the response...

Well, from the perspective of gov't you can either frontload the cash into a health program for youth/teens or pay the cash later when you have to support women who make a career out of being baby mills. I guess we could just gut welfare programs designed to protect innocent children? Pro-life indeed.

I can attest to NYCs advertising push to stem teen pregnancy and while I see it as basically attempting to shame kids out of making bad decisions it lacks the education behind it for the individual to make a proper decision. Factoids and scaring people doesn't work with everyone. I was astonished at how many schools lack sex ed courses and much of that is due to pressure from pro-lifers and budget cuts.

How the hell are people supposed to make informed decisions when American society has this weird fixation with covering up sex yet sexualizes everything? Even cartoons aren't immune from sexualizing male and female leads, movies often allude or contain sex scenes and it's impossible for youth to not observe this and draw conclusions based on fantasy rather than reality.

However, I wasn't speaking about government programs though as the pro-lifers who continue to be the loudest are often the same people who detest government programs... unless it serves their agenda.

So where are the pushes to make adoptions easier/more feasible? To break the stigma of adoptions? To encourage well-off young adults to bring some orphaned/abandoned child into their relatively stable existences? Of course, the loudest people when put to the fire spout on about morality, God and other pseudo-religious nonsense while avoiding the reality of the situation on the ground.

If you want to stem abortions then broad-spectrum bans are about the stupidest way to get at problem. Unless you want to further down trod those already at the bottom of societies barrel? It seems elected officials who are most passionate about this issue are so blinded by ideology that all that matters is Planned Parenthood be reduced to a pile of smoldering ash (regardless of other services they provide) and abortion be swept under the rug like sexual activity and anything else too uncomfortable to speak about.

Sparthosx, you make some good points as usual.

so is the alternative to school based programs going to have to be doctors being proactive about talking to teens? I would argue to throw the parents wishes out the window in order to properly prepare people for potentially life altering consequences, but how wrong is that line of thought? idk. I think the medical profession would have just a great of interest in such a mandate, as it would save them all kinds of hassles down the road.

idk, thinking out loud.

double posted for some reason, I'll go find an inappropriate picture I guess.

But then we have to rely on people regularly visiting their doctors and we all know that isn't happening for everyone. Having the education occur in an arena that is already dedicated to conveying knowledge and one that everyone must already attend makes the most sense. The problem, as always, is the piss poor quality of the institutions that get tasked with this responsibility.

Regardless, I'm pretty on board with telling the parents off and just educating the kids because it's what needs to be done.

So you're okay with ignoring people and telling them off when the line of thought agrees with your own but if it didn't would you be so willing to sit there and take it?

You can always have your children opt out of a sex-ed / health course if it's going to affect your family so profoundly that you want to supersede educators.

Parents have the final call but if you want to stop/lower abortions step one is to understand that teenagers aren't idiots and know what sex is far before it pops up on your parenting radar. They may not know details and hormones further complicate things but most know the penis goes in the vagina... among other places.

It's awkward and often off-putting for parents to educate their children about sex so many just avoid it or stammer through a conversation (my parents only got relaxed once I broke the ice for them) but knowledge coupled with the resources (contraception) results in teenagers making better decisions about their own sexual health if/when they engage in sexual activities.

It's certainly better than children educating children or the argument that education results in children wanting to have wild sex everywhere! Yes, because demonizing the activity doesn't result in repression that results in risky, stupid behavior.

If sex ed affects your personal sensibilities then feel free to educate your child personally and adapt what they've learned at school to your own models or have your child chill outside the classroom while other people see how a child is actually born.

I don't think they should be able to opt out. the very people making their kids sit out are the ones that are going to try to hammer thier face with abstinance abstinance abstinance.




If I was un/mis informed on an issue that could lead to drastic consequences for life, money, or penis, yes, yes I would.

Mosin knows what's up.

usually, but I'm willing to listen!

>.O

It's still tax payer money funneled through gov't hands to whatever the intended project... these days governments are still pretty strapped for cash as well... and as much as you'll say it is necessary and as much as it might even be necssary or a positive step the hurdles still remain... taking a higher moral stance and yelling louder or making sarcastic statements doesn't take away from the reality of the situation...

Are you ok with shaming teens as a means to an end? I sometimes wonder where the disconnect is... I mean I barely had any sex-ed classes beyond an expteremely basic one in the 5th grade and I'm clean and have no unwanted babies... budget cuts are a program killer... and when you get pressure from the parents at the school or the community in general...

This is true... there is a lot of sex out there that young kids often get a hold of... and I think it depends on the covering up... I mean there is some sort of a stigma that it's a dirty thing but in other circles it's like a badge of honor that you share the news with all your friends and co-workers and anyone who will listen lol... and for some it might just be a private, special act... There definitely is media influence but can't you take it like say video games? Do video games increase violent tendencies as say a movie or cartoon would increase sexual desire and or the need to perform said act?

I think everyone is pretty selfish when it comes to many things... support for one government program and disaproval of another is not something that should be unexpected... Their agenda is what is important to them... but that's the same on any side...

I can't speak much on the adoption process as I'm not really familiar with it... I've thought about adopting myself as it's come up in previous relationships but I don't think I ever really would and for me it's not so much a cost thing but when I think of having a child I like the idea of having my own... not to say other kids are defective or worse or anything just that's what I want... I also think that when people go to adopt they're looking for something specific at times... I don't know if encouraging adoption is the easiest or even the right thing... or how you would even do it unless they wanted kids... the only moral viewpoint that counts is the safety of the child and his continued positive welfare... We should really reform our foster program... I think it's pretty shoddily run atm and for your purposes could always be a window into adoption...

I've never advocated such... and I would like to point out that it's not always those or even most frequently those at the bottom of socities barrel that are having abortions... Whether you think or I think that abortion is necassary or someones right or even if a persons religious beliefs stand in the way of them accepting it doesn't really matter... It's a complicated matter that a lot of people don't really want to talk about... that mothers don't want to get but maybe feel like they have to... I don't really think anyone truly wants to even have one... We should act as a society though in whats best for it's citizens... as much as my own personal beliefs do not match up with it I do think it is necassary at this time in our society to make these procedures available and safe for those that come in...

It is true that something needs to be done Sparth... I just don't prescribe to the "this is what I see as the right thing to do and your reasons for disagreeing are ridiculous" and so on and so forth... It's also hard to force my own ideology down someone elses throat... in any case this as many other it should be approached in terms of what's best for the people that this effects without trying to throw our own personal dogma in...

I don't think it wouldn't done any good in my case, I remember being pretty knowledgeable but as a teen you just don't have the mental capabilies to see that far into the future, it's (mostly) all in the now.


well said.

See I'm so mixed on the issue... since there's been so many different scenarios I've experienced... I mean one of the kids I knew in HS who didn't seem to be running on a full deck of cards and had the gotta get laid mentality at 15 starts talking to us one day during lunch talking about how he doesn't wanna wear a condom but he knows that if he doesn't and even if he pulled out early and the kid did not want a kid of his own lol... then you also saw the kids that you thought were the smartest kids ever having kids at 14... I don't always think it has to do with education as much as it is heat of the moment or maybe even peer pressure...

Edit: just knowing the facts and then being in the actual situation... I mean how many of us have just gone in head first into a situation without really thinking at all lol...

Another funny one was a girl I knew gave her virginity away well before she would have to a guy she really didn't care about solely because the rest of the girls in her circle of friends weren't virgins anymore lol...