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[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text
[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Fenrir.Camiie said: »
I'm not sure I'm following him on the shield thing. Are they nerfing the new shield skill values specifically so Ochain can remain top dog?
I think he meant they'll add shield skill to Ochain, hopefully to the 90 version.
I don't think so. He says they're adjusting the shield skill on "the shields to be adjusted," which presumably includes all the ones that have shield skill+ on the test server now (Ochain is not one of them).
What I take him to mean is that these shields were performing better than Ochain on monsters above level 110. Ochain itself apparently blocks less than expected against targets above level 110 (why they would expect a different value I can't say--you'd think they'd know how the game functions on something basic like that). To keep Ochain on top as they said they were going to, they're probably reducing the shield skill on these so they block at a similar rate.
It's worded strangely, though, so I could be taking it incorrectly.
I'm not sure if this would help the current player base but I wonder. Do you guys think more players would do alliance based content if alliances were maxed out to 12 players instead of 18?
It seems to be difficult to do things like fracture bosses unless you're in a established linkshell. Also with the release of 14 coming out soon...hehe.
It seems to be difficult to do things like fracture bosses unless you're in a established linkshell. Also with the release of 14 coming out soon...hehe.
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
I don't think so. He says they're adjusting the shield skill on "the shields to be adjusted," which presumably includes all the ones that have shield skill+ on the test server now (Ochain is not one of them).
What I take him to mean is that these shields were performing better than Ochain on monsters above level 110. Ochain itself apparently blocks less than expected against targets above level 110 (why they would expect a different value I can't say--you'd think they'd know how the game functions on something basic like that). To keep Ochain on top as they said they were going to, they're probably reducing the shield skill on these so they block at a similar rate.
It's worded strangely, though, so I could be taking it incorrectly.
What I take him to mean is that these shields were performing better than Ochain on monsters above level 110. Ochain itself apparently blocks less than expected against targets above level 110 (why they would expect a different value I can't say--you'd think they'd know how the game functions on something basic like that). To keep Ochain on top as they said they were going to, they're probably reducing the shield skill on these so they block at a similar rate.
It's worded strangely, though, so I could be taking it incorrectly.
But another issue is that it isn't just mobs above 110. Martel's testing shows that even on 105 mobs Killedar(NQ) is better for total damage reduction.
It isn't because of block rate here. Total damage reduction is important too. I hope they consider that in any adjustments they make.
I probably won't make any friends saying this, but I was kind of hoping Ochain would go the way of the rest of the emps. Not because I want to stick it to current PLDs, but I'd like to see more people (including myself) be able to take up the job and play it competitively without an Ochain.
It just seems odd and frustrating that they're working so hard to keep 2 categories of R and E on top while letting everything else fall to the wayside as even the still to be upgraded R/M/E weapons will eventually.
It just seems odd and frustrating that they're working so hard to keep 2 categories of R and E on top while letting everything else fall to the wayside as even the still to be upgraded R/M/E weapons will eventually.
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As long as you can get your skill high enough, a couple of shields already beat Ochain. Just with that massive skill bonus, it was a lot easier to obtain on worthwhile mobs.
But even if they leave it at a point where Ochain is still physical king, the difference is going to be much smaller depending on just how much skill they leave and what mob you're fighting.
And plus, you still need an Aegis if you want to be a competitive Pld. /shrug. I don't play my pld because I can't invest the time in both atm but I don't mind them being the top shields. It isn't that I can't obtain them, I just put my small amount of time I can play in other directions. Well... That and my brother's pld puts mine to shame.
But even if they leave it at a point where Ochain is still physical king, the difference is going to be much smaller depending on just how much skill they leave and what mob you're fighting.
And plus, you still need an Aegis if you want to be a competitive Pld. /shrug. I don't play my pld because I can't invest the time in both atm but I don't mind them being the top shields. It isn't that I can't obtain them, I just put my small amount of time I can play in other directions. Well... That and my brother's pld puts mine to shame.
Fenrir.Camiie said: »
I'm not sure I'm following him on the shield thing. Are they nerfing the new shield skill values specifically so Ochain can remain top dog?
I'd totally argue ochain being top dog, aegis all the way!
Fenrir.Camiie said: »
I probably won't make any friends saying this, but I was kind of hoping Ochain would go the way of the rest of the emps. Not because I want to stick it to current PLDs, but I'd like to see more people (including myself) be able to take up the job and play it competitively without an Ochain.
I'm on the "fix REM" side of things, but the way PLD and BRD are set up right now really bothers me. PLD's essentially not worth leveling without the two shields (whereas with a DD, you can still do your job with another weapon), and BRD would have the same problem if we couldn't get around it with BRD rotations.
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
I'm on the "fix REM" side of things, but the way PLD and BRD are set up right now really bothers me. PLD's essentially not worth leveling without the two shields (whereas with a DD, you can still do your job with another weapon), and BRD would have the same problem if we couldn't get around it with BRD rotations.
Rangers without Annihilators and dragoons without Ryunohige (or Upukirex now I guess?) would argue otherwise on that bolded point. Both jobs are considered useless without the aforementioned weapons so this really isn't an issue distinct to just Paladin and Bard.
The issue with pld doesn't seem like to much of an issue as you only need 1 on em for an alliance. I'd argue that gearing a DD job takes longer than a pld.
And again I probably won't be Miss Popular for saying it, but a single item like that shouldn't make the difference between "OMG we need a <Insert Job Here> or we can't possibly win" and "lolJOB waste of slot."
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Siren.Knivesz said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
I'm on the "fix REM" side of things, but the way PLD and BRD are set up right now really bothers me. PLD's essentially not worth leveling without the two shields (whereas with a DD, you can still do your job with another weapon), and BRD would have the same problem if we couldn't get around it with BRD rotations.
Rangers without Annihilators and dragoons without Ryunohige (or Upukirex now I guess?) would argue otherwise on that bolded point. Both jobs are considered useless without the aforementioned weapons so this really isn't an issue distinct to just Paladin and Bard.
While that's certainly true, you can at least play another DD and fill a similar role, which you can't do with PLD. Only PLD can do the things that it does. BRD thankfully can play COR (or heal, I suppose). Admittedly, the PLD thing bothers me more than it does for BRD (since they can at least still participate, even if BRD rotations are sort of an annoying way around the lack of REM). I didn't mean to leave anyone out and probably should have said "most DD," though.
Lakshmi.Feint said: »
The issue with pld doesn't seem like to much of an issue as you only need 1 on em for an alliance. I'd argue that gearing a DD job takes longer than a pld.
It probably depends on the DD job. I had MNK ready for plasm farms pretty quickly (and would have been ready for Tojil if I didn't get bored with plasm farms, lol)--certainly faster than I would have been able to get through Aegis (since I missed the Chocobo Blinker days) or Souls. The latter probably depends somewhat on server, though, and whether or not you've got money to put toward T3 pops as well.
I guess my stand point comes from making ochain recently (rarely had 0 competition). Once REM are updated, taking those to 99 would take longer than making an ochain. Cam does make a point that if pld doesn't have a good shield, they are viewed as worthless. Having a shield that is somewhat comparable to aegis or ochain probably should be considered but I still do think its too much of an issue. I'd say having 2 bards with harp is more of an issue xD.
Lakshmi.Feint said: »
I guess my stand point comes from making ochain recently (rarely had 0 competition). Once REM are updated, taking those to 99 would take longer than making an ochain. Cam does make a point that if pld doesn't have a good shield, they are viewed as worthless. Having a shield that is somewhat comparable to aegis or ochain probably should be considered but I still do think its too much of an issue. I'd say having 2 bards with harp is more of an issue xD.
Oh, sure, taking REM to 99 takes a lot longer than an Ochain since it's still functional before that. However, if they do the update properly and REM become options, rather than the best, it probably won't be that bad.
We'll see, though.
Fenrir.Camiie said: »
And again I probably won't be Miss Popular for saying it, but a single item like that shouldn't make the difference between "OMG we need a <Insert Job Here> or we can't possibly win" and "lolJOB waste of slot."
But, it's hard to balance between making an item worth going after and giving it a benefit worth the effort, without creating this kinda dilemma.
I can't say that this is going to change though. I just hope they really do make more gear options and decrease the gap between each tier of gear.
Obviously the wording used to describe shield adjustments is sketchy at best, but here's my take on it, based off of the following quote:
"Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed."
I think they mean that they don't want to kill Ochain's block rate and/or make it inferior to new shields, but they also had the problem of the new shields not being good enough with the current shield skill + rates on the test server. Therefore, they're separating Ochain's block rate from the standard criteria used for determining said rate, thus preserving its usefulness while simultaneously allowing them to raise the shield skill on the new shields to match the difficulty of the new content/item levels.
I hope that made sense.
"Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed."
I think they mean that they don't want to kill Ochain's block rate and/or make it inferior to new shields, but they also had the problem of the new shields not being good enough with the current shield skill + rates on the test server. Therefore, they're separating Ochain's block rate from the standard criteria used for determining said rate, thus preserving its usefulness while simultaneously allowing them to raise the shield skill on the new shields to match the difficulty of the new content/item levels.
I hope that made sense.
08-01-2013 11:23 AM
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| Good evening, it's Matsui. I'm going to make some replies to a number of questions and comments we received about yesterday's post. Regarding the magic damage effect, you didn't mention the exact timing, but it would be good if you could do it during the 8/6 version update. I hope it's not going to be 3 years later (´・ω・｀) Since we are doing the development work aiming towards the 8/6 version update, there should be no problem with this. For most of the remaining users, it seems like Matsui's opinions regarding item level and content level are being received favorably. It seems like you are intentionally ignoring critical opinions. Since the release of Seekers of Adoulin, it seems like the population has continued to decline with every version update. If item level and content level are absolutely the future, I would hope that immediate primary focuses with all of the new item level equipment would be to work on inventory issues and to use equipment narrow the gaps between job performance. A lot of people have left because so much content has become obsolete; I hope you can soon focus on enhancing this content to bring players back. Please do your best starting in September. While reading through your criticisms, I'm struggling to decide how I should answer, but I will try to respond directly to the heart of what you're saying. I can't always respond to all opinions, and some of my responses may not include direct quotes, so people may feel that they were ignored. If you do not get a direct response to your post, please read through the feedback on the following posts as well. There is a difference in the opinions from person to person, and it's not practical to think that everyone will agree on everything, but we will continue our efforts so that we can appeal to as many people as possible. Regarding equipment, I posted yesterday, and will have more comments and responses after the version update. For inventory, although we have repeatedly considered expanding it, with the addition of a larger inventory, items may take longer to appear after area changes and upon log-in. There is a risk that this can become even more inconvenient than it is, so as we review this risk, there is a high possibility that we will be looking into another method besides inventory expansion. 1- I'm a bit worried about the changes being made to shields. On the test server, Killedar Shield has a very significant block rate, so what will happen to the block rate performance of original Paladin shields? 2- I would like to know why the item level of the Delve plasm exchange shield is lower than the item level of the bayld exchange shield. First, as announced previously, the block rate of shields and parry rate on the test server is currently higher than it should be due to bugs. Next, regarding the cited performance of shields on the test server - there was some worry about the item adjustments. The item levels for shields will be corrected as follows:
I didn't really understand your reply. My primary concern was with the following two points. 1. With Ochain, are you keeping the block rate between 90 and 100% as it has been until now? 2. With other shields, even if modified with shield skill +, are you keeping the block rate so that it approaches, but does not overtake Ochain (for example, 80% on Killedar Shield)? The important concern is whether you will be able to function as a tank without Ochain. I will reply to both. First- This is not specific to Ochain. Existing shields will have the same block rate that they have had up until now. Second- The block rate is not that close to that of Ochain. However, the damage cut rate upon activation will exceed that of Ochain. After reading Matsui's post, it sounds like the Ochain is not blocking as it normally does. I do not understand why Ochain specifically should be adjusted when the producer has previously stated that the reason for the overwhelming difference between Delve weapons and previous RME weapons is the item level. It would be strange if Ochain specifically gets reviewed because its block rate has dropped by 30%. Rather than to protect the Ochain, we are simply trying to maintain the established utility it has, but I can say that the decisions about the adjustment have been difficult. Based on the current block rate of Ochain, if you convert it to item level, it would be equivalent to item level 150. If we had to cut performance to be comparable to the weapon group of RME, it could potentially lead to the difficulty of other events going up, for example, earning plasm in Delve. If we wanted, we could make an adjustment with the viewpoint that the block rate on Ochain could be reduced, but this is certainly not what everyone would want, and is not we want to do either. To avoid any results that lead to weakening of the Ochain, we will instead make adjustments to shields added moving forward so that they gradually approach the performance of Ochain. This is the path we've chosen, but please let us know if there are any points with which you don't agree. Please add additional summoning magic skill since the physical performance of avatars has been affected. Also, there is a variety of equipment at item level 119, but the avatars have not yet caught up with this level. For equipment which is granted "Avatar: Lv.***", elements such as accuracy are also added at the same time. For avatar level 114 and higher equipment, we will continue to make additions in the future. Will you be adding equipment which increases the automaton's skills? I would like additional equipment which helps the automaton to fight besides just the animator. Your comments are short so I'm not sure that I fully understand your meaning, but I'll try to reply. For the animator, the item level displayed adds elements such as accuracy and so on at the same time, so skills like magic, hand-to-hand, and ranged do not rise. We do not have any plans to implement equipment which adds these skills directly in the near future. With respect to beastmaster, I have the impression that the performance of pets is not currently in line with item level. Even with a weapon of a high level, the abilities of pets are too weak, so it's difficult to play as a Beastmaster as originally intended. I would ask that you please look into raising the abilities of pets. For pets that you call, if you are equipped with a main weapon of a high item level, understand that the pet performance is adapted to the level of the weapon (there's also Beast Affinity). [[some more stuff I don't really understand because I know very little about BST]] There has never been any mention of enfeebling magic. Although red mage is supposed to be the best at hitting enfeebling magic, they can't even equip the best weapon for the task (Atinian Staff). Red mage enfeebling magic has really become inferior to other jobs. Geomancy cannot be resisted, and a number of other jobs have the same assortment of spells. With these points in mind, I really don't understand the current situation at all. Incorporating new mechanisms into the game is fine, but I hope you will work to also improve the current situation more. [[BS ALERT - BS RESPONSE FOLLOWS]] Since yesterday's post specifically mentioned magic accuracy for dark knight, blue mage, and ninja, I'm sorry that I excluded red mage. For the former jobs, while this will be associated with combat skill, we plan to add magic accuracy for red mage. Although it was mentioned in other threads that magic damage and accuracy would rise in proportion to combat skill on the main weapon, I tried it out with Tamaxchi on blue mage (club skill +188), but I did not see the damage effect of blue magic rise as I would have expected. Has the specification not already been implemented? [[Goes on about blue magic]] For physical blue magic, the upper limit of the damage will be adjusted with DMG. For certain spells, they did not reach their damage limit, but do now with the "combat skill +" gear, while there are other spells which will continue to grow. Translated by: Slycer | ||||
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I really like how he completely ignored the part about people leaving because of the current state of the game's content.
all this item level talk. make it stop please
The part where he said that Ochain is super OP made me actually laugh.
My main computer has been broken for about two months, and every day it is I see a little less reason to actually play once it's fixed.
My main computer has been broken for about two months, and every day it is I see a little less reason to actually play once it's fixed.
I'm not at all against them trying to keep Ochain top dog or anything, but I don't understand their logic with saying Ochain deserves to stay as a top dog ilevel 150 item when other RMEs apparently should not.
Obviously the planned RME upgrade trial should involve Colorless Souls
Obviously the planned RME upgrade trial should involve Colorless Souls
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
I'm not at all against them trying to keep Ochain top dog or anything, but I don't understand their logic with saying Ochain deserves to stay as a top dog ilevel 150 item when other RMEs apparently should not.
Obviously the planned RME upgrade trial should involve Colorless Souls
Obviously the planned RME upgrade trial should involve Colorless Souls
Yeah, I don't get it either. Though I also get the impression they didn't have the item level formulas that determined stats really finalized at the beginning of the expansion (which is why we're seeing all the updates to the items this next week). They may not have conceptualized how strong Ochain was compared to everything else or something (which is pretty amateurish, of course, but it's not like that's out of character for them at this point). If so, now that they've realized how strong it is and have been reminded how important REM is to some of the playerbase, perhaps they don't want to raise that ire again by nerfing it.
All I gotta say is... it will be the final nail in the coffin for me and this game if they start nerfing pld.
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Matsui said:
This is the path we've chosen, but please let us know if there are any points with which you don't agree.
Yes...Please let us know which points you don't agree with, so we can continue to ignore you and implement whatever changes we already had planned. Good deal.
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Leviathan.Kincard said: »
I'm not at all against them trying to keep Ochain top dog or anything, but I don't understand their logic with saying Ochain deserves to stay as a top dog ilevel 150 item when other RMEs apparently should not.
Obviously the planned RME upgrade trial should involve Colorless Souls
Obviously the planned RME upgrade trial should involve Colorless Souls
Asura.Kohanu said: »
The part where he said that Ochain is super OP made me actually laugh.
My main computer has been broken for about two months, and every day it is I see a little less reason to actually play once it's fixed.
My main computer has been broken for about two months, and every day it is I see a little less reason to actually play once it's fixed.
I need a producer that has a clue about being a FFXI producer :(
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