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E3 2013
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Siren.Squeegee 2013-06-10 14:01:05
Why not just make the XboxOne digital distribution only then? Or better yet, charge less for Digital copies over XboxLive. Again, the evidence I see says that Gamestop is actually a developer/publisher's secret best friend. So Unless you can rationally explain to me why Games on Demand prices are the same as a new Retail Copy at gamestop... You just said it yourself...
Really...
Do you not understand business?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Digital distribution is infinitely cheaper than new retail copies of a game. But, they don't pass any of those savings onto the consumer. If they really hated gamestop, they would push to a pure digital distribution model. Even if it meant pumping money into internet infrastructure.
Again... I'm confused on what you are trying to say.
 Fenrir.Camiie
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 817
By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-06-10 14:01:28
As far as the DRM goes, I guess if I ever donate any used games to Goodwill or the Salvation Army I should send the publishers the receipt so they can write it off on their taxes since clearly it's their property I'm donating.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-10 14:04:39
Phoenix.Lillicarnage said: »The major problem with Gamestop and stores like it is how much power they actually have over the game market. They can sell used games for a 90% profit and give nothing to the developers of the game when asked, and in the past developers have asked Gamestop to share in these profits and Gamestop said NO. On top of this Gamestop then has the nerve to demand, not request but demand, that game developers create or limit the distribution of content for Gamestop Exclusive bonuses, and if the game developers were to try and stand up for themselves Gamestop simply threatens to not stock their games.
I honestly think that the system Microsoft is putting in place is not one designed to prevent piracy, as everyone is quick to point out that is not effective. Instead I think that this is a system intended to put a control system in place to better regulate the market of used games in a manner which will allow game developers to get a cut of the used game sales as well.
This way instead of Gamestop paying me $3 for a game and selling it for $55 and the developer getting nothing now the system will be more like, Gamestop gives me $3 for my game, they then pay the developer $10-20 to reactivate the game, they then sell the game used for $55.
OR if the burden of reactivating the game falls on us, then Gamestop is selling nothing more than a piece of plastic to put in our systems, in which case the money we put in the hands of Gamestop becomes significantly less.
I think that if you try to not associate the DRM with the ideas of piracy and how horribly they fail, and think of it as more of a way to deal with the used game market (Specifically Gamestop) it doesn't seem so bad.
Why not just make the XboxOne digital distribution only then? Or better yet, charge less for Digital copies over XboxLive. Again, the evidence I see says that Gamestop is actually a developer/publisher's secret best friend. So Unless you can rationally explain to me why Games on Demand prices are the same as a new Retail Copy at gamestop... You just said it yourself...
Really...
Do you not understand business?
I guess not, Steam's prices must never fluctuate at all with great deals. Yep, and used games are clearly a major issue through steam.
YUP....
Daft.
I think you missed my point.
Lil's contesting that Gamestop is the enemy of the Publisher/Developer, but the fact that the direct digital distribution services on XboxLive always match the Gamestop (no other retailer I've seen) says otherwise. I wasn't talking about used games in that particular argument at all.
If publishers/developers were so dissatisfied with Gamestop, why not cut them out by going cheaper through digital distribution? As its set up now, there isn't even a reason to use the GoD service, you pay the same for less. (No manual for example)
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Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4195
By Phoenix.Lillicarnage 2013-06-10 14:09:56
Phoenix.Lillicarnage said: »The major problem with Gamestop and stores like it is how much power they actually have over the game market. They can sell used games for a 90% profit and give nothing to the developers of the game when asked, and in the past developers have asked Gamestop to share in these profits and Gamestop said NO. On top of this Gamestop then has the nerve to demand, not request but demand, that game developers create or limit the distribution of content for Gamestop Exclusive bonuses, and if the game developers were to try and stand up for themselves Gamestop simply threatens to not stock their games.
I honestly think that the system Microsoft is putting in place is not one designed to prevent piracy, as everyone is quick to point out that is not effective. Instead I think that this is a system intended to put a control system in place to better regulate the market of used games in a manner which will allow game developers to get a cut of the used game sales as well.
This way instead of Gamestop paying me $3 for a game and selling it for $55 and the developer getting nothing now the system will be more like, Gamestop gives me $3 for my game, they then pay the developer $10-20 to reactivate the game, they then sell the game used for $55.
OR if the burden of reactivating the game falls on us, then Gamestop is selling nothing more than a piece of plastic to put in our systems, in which case the money we put in the hands of Gamestop becomes significantly less.
I think that if you try to not associate the DRM with the ideas of piracy and how horribly they fail, and think of it as more of a way to deal with the used game market (Specifically Gamestop) it doesn't seem so bad.
Why not just make the XboxOne digital distribution only then? Or better yet, charge less for Digital copies over XboxLive. Again, the evidence I see says that Gamestop is actually a developer/publisher's secret best friend. So Unless you can rationally explain to me why Games on Demand prices are the same as a new Retail Copy at gamestop... You just said it yourself...
Really...
Do you not understand business?
I guess not, Steam's prices must never fluctuate at all with great deals.
I actually fully support the idea of going digital, I think that if all games were available in this way that console game prices would see similar sales like on Steam.
Steam has a major benefit in the fact that it doesn't need to worry about used game sales. Once you buy a game on Steam you have it, you can't trade it in, you can't sell it, no one else is going to buy your copy without the publishers getting paid. They can afford to have sales the way they do because of it. It is an AMAZING system.
One problem Steam faces is piracy, but I think that the great deals that they have on Steam is something that actually helps combat that issue, as I have had a few times where I was about to pirate a game, looked on Steam, saw it for $7 and said *** it $7 let's do this.
The reason On Demand prices are the same as retail right now are simply that On Demand and the XBL Marketplace are not as successful as Steam. They need to sell more retail copies and are trying to use it right now as an avenue to do just that. It is a major failure on their part as it provides almost no incentive to consumers to make purchases this way, and will not generate the success needed to start On Demand sales of Steam proportions.
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Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Siren.Squeegee 2013-06-10 14:10:01
I think that's what was missing... He assumed you were talking about used games in that post. That's why I got confused.
Let's not try and pretend that MS is our best friend and is only looking out for us. They are in it for the money. Same as publishers/developers, all in it for the money.MS offered, or the devs/pubs came to MS and said "hey, we wanna make more money. Why don't we put a system in place that allows us to do that for little to no reason?" And the other party was like "ZOMG, free money! We're onboard. And we're a big company, so people will just lie there and take it!"
I'm pretty sure that's verbatim.
Ramuh.Urial
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2013-06-10 14:11:27
I think you missed my point.
Lil's contesting that Gamestop is the enemy of the Publisher/Developer, but the fact that the direct digital distribution services on XboxLive always match the Gamestop (no other retailer I've seen) says otherwise. I wasn't talking about used games in that particular argument at all.
If publishers/developers were so dissatisfied with Gamestop, why not cut them out by going cheaper through digital distribution? As its set up now, there isn't even a reason to use the GoD service, you pay the same for less. (No manual for example)
They have no issue with gamestop as a retailer with new products, it's they're used products they have to compete with and since gamestop turns such a fat profit on the used games they'd have to undercut new games to the GS used price in order to do damage, or instead do something like they are now. At least thats what I assume they see as being they're only way of removing the amount of profit they hemorrhage to used game sales.
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4195
By Phoenix.Lillicarnage 2013-06-10 14:12:10
I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Digital distribution is infinitely cheaper than new retail copies of a game. But, they don't pass any of those savings onto the consumer. If they really hated gamestop, they would push to a pure digital distribution model. Even if it meant pumping money into internet infrastructure.
Again... I'm confused on what you are trying to say.
If publishers/developers were so dissatisfied with Gamestop, why not cut them out by going cheaper through digital distribution? As its set up now, there isn't even a reason to use the GoD service, you pay the same for less. (No manual for example)
Again, the reason they don't is simply because it is not currently successful enough to warrant the risk involved with pulling your games from the shelves.
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Siren.Squeegee 2013-06-10 14:12:41
Phoenix.Lillicarnage said: »The reason On Demand prices are the same as retail right now are simply that On Demand and the XBL Marketplace are not as successful as Steam. They need to sell more retail copies and are trying to use it right now as an avenue to do just that. It is a major failure on their part as it provides almost no incentive to consumers to make purchases this way, and will not generate the success needed to start On Demand sales of Steam proportions.
Right, and the reason it isn't as successful is because you are paying the same, for less. If they dropped prices by just 1-5% over a retail copy, they would sell more. But, some bigwig in charge can't figure this simple fact out. Do you really trust them to make proper decisions when it comes to resale of your property? Come now... Let's be honest with ourselves.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-10 14:14:10
But if publishers switched entirely to digital, there'd be no used copies to resell...
All the policies here just seem like they're robbing consumers of the concept of ownership instead of actually addressing the issue.
Phoenix.Lillicarnage said: »
Again, the reason they don't is simply because it is not currently successful enough to warrant the risk involved with pulling your games from the shelves.
That's exactly my point though, it's still a beneficial relationship. My problem comes in when they take their rage out directly on the consumer.
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Siren.Squeegee 2013-06-10 14:14:26
I think you missed my point.
Lil's contesting that Gamestop is the enemy of the Publisher/Developer, but the fact that the direct digital distribution services on XboxLive always match the Gamestop (no other retailer I've seen) says otherwise. I wasn't talking about used games in that particular argument at all.
If publishers/developers were so dissatisfied with Gamestop, why not cut them out by going cheaper through digital distribution? As its set up now, there isn't even a reason to use the GoD service, you pay the same for less. (No manual for example)
They have no issue with gamestop as a retailer with new products, it's they're used products they have to compete with and since gamestop turns such a fat profit on the used games they'd have to undercut new games to the GS used price in order to do damage, or instead do something like they are now. At least thats what I assume they see as being they're only way of removing the amount of profit they hemorrhage to used game sales.
Gamestop prices the used games at usually $5 less than a new copy... Digital distribution could easily beat that. But they won't/don't.
I don't think they are hemorrhaging that badly if they won't even attempt to fix the non-issues.
Edit: Also, Zic is right. These policies do nothing but rob the consumer of the concept of ownership. They don't protect you in any way, nor do they solve an issue for anyone else. They are only in place to reap more money that they could otherwise not tap into. And to also deny you the right to sell your game down the line. (by yourself)
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11417
By Odin.Minefield 2013-06-10 14:15:13
Wait, that's not Mag.
MY BRAIN
Ramuh.Urial
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2013-06-10 14:15:37
But if publishers switched entirely to digital, there'd be no used copies to resell...
All the policies here just seem like they're robbing consumers of the concept of ownership instead of actually addressing the issue. I agree.
I see that coming one day.
But until every console user is online(which is close) it's just no possible. And i feel groups are pushing for that though.
I personally do anything and everything I can digitally.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-06-10 14:16:40
I'll admit I'm not even paying attention to what you guys are talking about so in other news..just read XBL is going to copy Playstation Plus and start giving away free games every month. Its just 2 games a month tho (significantly less than Plus) starting in July, first 2 are Assassin's Creed 2 and Halo 3, so if you didnt play those in 2008...yay?
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4195
By Phoenix.Lillicarnage 2013-06-10 14:17:54
When does that start? I actually have never played AC2.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-06-10 14:18:38
I said starting in July lol
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Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4195
By Phoenix.Lillicarnage 2013-06-10 14:18:57
I said starting in July lol
I are can not read good.
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Siren.Squeegee 2013-06-10 14:20:19
But if publishers switched entirely to digital, there'd be no used copies to resell...
All the policies here just seem like they're robbing consumers of the concept of ownership instead of actually addressing the issue. I agree.
I see that coming one day.
But until every console user is online(which is close) it's just no possible. And i feel groups are pushing for that though.
I personally do anything and everything I can digitally.
And I can see merit in your approach to a digital everything, I can. But, that said... I want the option to buy a game and hold it in my hand. A physical copy that I can take with me, wherever I go.
I also want that game to work if it worked at my house and has suffered no grievous injury in transit. What if I'm friends with Jimmy Jo Treespit Mcghee who lives in the rural forests of Indochinastraliaxico? And he has electricity, but no internet? Or he forgot to pay his internet bill? Or third world hunger ate his cable lines? ...
Cerberus.Tikal
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-06-10 14:22:36
Third world hunger is a menace to cable lines everywhere.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-10 14:23:52
But if publishers switched entirely to digital, there'd be no used copies to resell...
All the policies here just seem like they're robbing consumers of the concept of ownership instead of actually addressing the issue. I agree.
I see that coming one day.
But until every console user is online(which is close) it's just no possible. And i feel groups are pushing for that though.
I personally do anything and everything I can digitally.
Well, gamestop bought Stardock's Impulse distributor, so they're already set up.
But it's not even that it should go to 100% digital, Lil said that publishers are afraid that their distribution platforms aren't successful enough, but they're never going to be successful if there isn't a reason to use them. That's why I was asking the question of price matching. Digital retail should be cheaper for the consumer, aside from being cheaper already from the publisher's standpoint, having lower prices than box-retail would cause tons of people to gravitate away from gamestop and other physical retailers.
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Ramuh.Urial
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2013-06-10 14:24:17
But if publishers switched entirely to digital, there'd be no used copies to resell...
All the policies here just seem like they're robbing consumers of the concept of ownership instead of actually addressing the issue. I agree.
I see that coming one day.
But until every console user is online(which is close) it's just no possible. And i feel groups are pushing for that though.
I personally do anything and everything I can digitally.
And I can see merit in your approach to a digital everything, I can. But, that said... I want the option to buy a game and hold it in my hand. A physical copy that I can take with me, wherever I go.
I also want that game to work if it worked at my house and has suffered no grievous injury in transit. What if I'm friends with Jimmy Jo Treespit Mcghee who lives in the rural forests of Indochinastraliaxico? And he has electricity, but no internet? Or he forgot to pay his internet bill? Or third world hunger ate his cable lines? ... Like I said, I don't see it happening for a while.
Not as long as the console is the casual gamers avenue for gaming.
And I can also understand the frustration of wanting a physical copy or maybe not having internet.
I just see both sides and maybe because I study business I tend to analyze everything form that perspective.
By volkom 2013-06-10 14:26:55
Why's Masterchief running around all cloaked up like that? <_< Shouldn't his suit already protect him? lol
you've never been in a sandstorm have you? sand gets in everywhere
 Ragnarok.Zohnax
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-06-10 14:28:25
New (true) survival horror game from the makers of Resident Evil. :o
EDIT: The Evil Within, looks interesting.
Fenrir.Camiie
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 817
By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-06-10 14:28:39
Let's see what WOPR thinks:
Yeah, I think that's about right.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-10 14:29:39
Why's Masterchief running around all cloaked up like that? <_< Shouldn't his suit already protect him? lol
you've never been in a sandstorm have you? sand gets in everywhere
italics = naughty places.
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Ramuh.Urial
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2013-06-10 14:31:18
Why's Masterchief running around all cloaked up like that? <_< Shouldn't his suit already protect him? lol
you've never been in a sandstorm have you? sand gets in everywhere
italics = naughty places. Right in the cracks of the biosupport system.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-10 14:33:48
EA conference in 30min.
I hope Dragon Age 3 doesn't suck.
Ramuh.Urial
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2013-06-10 14:34:10
EA conference in 30min.
I hope Dragon Age 3 doesn't suck. I'll settle for audio through the entire conference.
By volkom 2013-06-10 14:34:35
Why's Masterchief running around all cloaked up like that? <_< Shouldn't his suit already protect him? lol
you've never been in a sandstorm have you? sand gets in everywhere
italics = naughty places. lol~maybe.
but to be a nerdy analysis about the trailer~ *whiney nasal congested voice* you can tell that his armor looks worn and his suit is damaged (see cracks in visor) so the sand would breach his suit if it weren't for the cloak.
Ramuh.Urial
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2013-06-10 14:35:47
Why's Masterchief running around all cloaked up like that? <_< Shouldn't his suit already protect him? lol
you've never been in a sandstorm have you? sand gets in everywhere
italics = naughty places. lol~maybe.
but to be a nerdy analysis about the trailer~ *whiney nasal congested voice* you can tell that his armor looks worn and his suit is damaged (see cracks in visor) so the sand would breach his suit if it weren't for the cloak. Is this with mouth breathing to make it truly authentic....
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-10 14:38:22
Quote: GEARS OF ROME:MEDAL OF DUTY CONFIRMED Quote: No sound, confirmed as DLC Quote: >Console is designed for the US
>Half the features won't even work in other territories
>Costs $200 more in other territories Quote: >Zombies
>Military shooters
>Zombies
>Military shooters
Probably the most disgusting E3 I have seen in a good decade.
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Anyone have any thoughts/speculation? Lightning Returns FFXIII should be given a release date and i think this is the year Kingdom Hearts 3 shows its head, if not we'll get that KH1.5 release date maby KH2.4 trailer. Hoping to see MGS5 Phantom Pain news to.
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