Delve Weapons Only |
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Delve weapons only
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: So an R/M/E or accepted equivalent is not adequate for doing Delve plasm farming? These are "bad weapons?" At this current stage of the game, they're definitely not preferred (@99, sans a few, like drg mythic). 85-95, yea they're bad at this stage in the game So if someone doesn't yet have a Delve weapon, realistically what weapons are they supposed to use in order to obtain a Delve weapon? Am I missing something? Is there not a serious catch-22 here? The only ppl I gear check is the paladins because one time for a VW I shouted for an ochain PLD and had a PLD come with the lvl 85 ochain >.>.... I also gear check the whms some times, one time I had a whm curing in full lvl 45 salvage gear....
On a different note, If I shout and set up a run, is it morally wrong to call dibs on all airlixers >.>? Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: So an R/M/E or accepted equivalent is not adequate for doing Delve plasm farming? These are "bad weapons?" At this current stage of the game, they're definitely not preferred (@99, sans a few, like drg mythic).  Fenrir.Camiie said: » So if someone doesn't yet have a Delve weapon, realistically what weapons are they supposed to use in order to obtain a Delve weapon? Am I missing something? Is there not a serious catch-22 here? Most PUGs will likely still take R/M/E's -- they'll just generally be worse than ones that want delve-weapons only. Once you finally have enough plasm and the KI, you can "graduate" up to joining shouts that are delve-weapons or greater only. It's nothing more than the simple gear-progression style of progress this game has always used.
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BTW Armageddon 90 obliterates every delve weapon for cor on fodder mobs, wildfire to the break of dawn! On NMs you can't hit for ***so the new delve weapon + bullet + quickdraw spam = gooooooooooooooooooooooo. Or build a sexy ranged acc set and full time for weaponskills too XD!
Ragnarok.Bepe said: » If I shout and set up a run, is it morally wrong to call dibs on all airlixers >.>? Sylph.Wardeniii said: » Fenrir.Camiie said: » So if someone doesn't yet have a Delve weapon, realistically what weapons are they supposed to use in order to obtain a Delve weapon? Am I missing something? Is there not a serious catch-22 here? Most PUGs will likely still take R/M/E's -- they'll just generally be worse than ones that want delve-weapons only. Once you finally have enough plasm and the KI, you can "graduate" up to joining shouts that are delve-weapons or greater only. It's nothing more than the simple gear-progression style of progress this game has always used. That's obviously my plan. I'm just hoping the mentality that one NEEDS a Delve weapon in order to farm a Delve weapon (or the corresponding KIs) isn't going to seep down into the community as a whole. No one is ever going to make progress if that becomes the common mentality. Carraway Author said: » Either aforementioned 90+ R/E/M for longtime players or Skirmish weapons, since the parts drop like candy now and you can do it with a 6-man group set up like an NNI or Meeble group. Get a Crobaci/Ninzas/Iclamar with a +1 stone and go nuts; you might still get denied from some groups, but you either keep on trying or start your own shouts. I know vertical progression is a super-weird concept for FFXI, but when I started I looked at the game and saw this: I don't have a issue with vertical progression, but expecting someone to have already achieved their goal while chasing their goal isn't vertical progression. It's just stupid.
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Can't believe I read through this.
Excuse the wall of text, but that line reminded me of what that ENTIRE game reminded me of. Here, it's one or two events, but I can understand how frustrating it is to have to gear up another job just to get into one of these runs. I'm a scholar mainly. That's usually one of the first spots to be filled. The odds of me getting into these runs on my best geared DD job (which is DNC at the moment) is slim to nil, mostly nil. Sure, one can make their own squad, but folks don't seem to remember that some people don't have 10+ hours to invest in game. If it takes 3 hours to set up a plasm farm (exaggerating, since plasm farm parties fill up fast--and it's usually the support jobs that fill up first), then that's 3 hours wasted essentially if it doesn't fill up. There's also this quote to consider: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » From the other side of things, if I see 2 groups shouting at the same time, I'm more likely to join the one requesting delve weps Sad but true, folks tend to stick with their own kind. So if you have two parties going on and one is asking for Delve weapons and the other isn't, that person with the Delve weapon that is looking to farm is going to go for the one asking for Delve weapons--like-minded folks. Not necessarily best geared outside of the weapon, but hey, they have Delve weapons! They gotta have good damage at least! Whether or not they regret the decision of turning down the lesser group is on them. Which means the lesser group will take longer to fill as more and more people obtain these weapons. Frustrating, hells yeah. TL:DR; Speaking as someone who has been on all of one plasm farm, and is still looking for KI's, it sucks, but there are ways around it. Fenrir.Camiie said: » Sylph.Wardeniii said: » Fenrir.Camiie said: » So if someone doesn't yet have a Delve weapon, realistically what weapons are they supposed to use in order to obtain a Delve weapon? Am I missing something? Is there not a serious catch-22 here? Most PUGs will likely still take R/M/E's -- they'll just generally be worse than ones that want delve-weapons only. Once you finally have enough plasm and the KI, you can "graduate" up to joining shouts that are delve-weapons or greater only. It's nothing more than the simple gear-progression style of progress this game has always used. That's obviously my plan. I'm just hoping the mentality that one NEEDS a Delve weapon in order to farm a Delve weapon (or the corresponding KIs) isn't going to seep down into the community as a whole. No one is ever going to make progress if that becomes the common mentality. Could always join on a mage/support-class job as well -- generally a nice fallback to have either COR/BRD/WHM/SCH/etc. in case your top tier weapon is ever overthrown drastically. Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: So an R/M/E or accepted equivalent is not adequate for doing Delve plasm farming? These are "bad weapons?" At this current stage of the game, they're definitely not preferred (@99, sans a few, like drg mythic). 85-95, yea they're bad at this stage in the game Also, I wouldn't pick a group above an other unless names are involved. Cerberus is a very food example of why picking certain groups with high standards isn't always the best idea. The people making said groups are very often very bad themselves (if not always, I can only name 1 exception right now) so their opinion is worth 0.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Just say you have a Delve weapon and come on whatever job you want if its geared properly. And no, that doesn't mean come on your shitty Abysseburned 99 because you'll be licking the accuracy floor faster than you can say Matamata. People in FFXI don't actually gearcheck sets or anything before entering an instance and I've been ignoring the R/M/E only mentality as far back as Voidwatch. An 85 Verethragna does not a good MNK make or any one piece of gear in XI. Does having a Delve weapon make a difference? Hell yes, provided its backed up with gearswaps which you'll never know unless you parse every Plasm farm. Once you're in if they have gall to boot you for not having a Delve weap then you can just stick around for 45mins and leech.
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Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Who joins a pug for NNI if he already has NNI gear?
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While we're at it, what is considered bad,good, best plasma farming numbers?
I'll be honest I didn't know people were getting 7 to 8k until I read this. Are you killing nms in morimar also? Our server does Ceizak for 4.5 A run With a mix of good/bad delve, REM, and my kanto. It's not optimal(like a pug really is) but it workable. Valefor.Sehachan said: » Who joins a pug for NNI if he already has NNI gear? Fenrir.Camiie said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: So an R/M/E or accepted equivalent is not adequate for doing Delve plasm farming? These are "bad weapons?" At this current stage of the game, they're definitely not preferred (@99, sans a few, like drg mythic). 85-95, yea they're bad at this stage in the game So if someone doesn't yet have a Delve weapon, realistically what weapons are they supposed to use in order to obtain a Delve weapon? Am I missing something? Is there not a serious catch-22 here? Valefor.Sehachan said: » Who joins a pug for NNI if he already has NNI gear? i regretted it pretty quickly Gimp said: » While we're at it, what is considered bad,good, best plasma farming numbers? I'll be honest I didn't know people were getting 7 to 8k until I read this. Are you killing nms in morimar also? Our server does Ceizak for 4.5 A run With a mix of good/bad delve, REM, and my kanto. Once I joined 3 decent parties alliance, it shot to 7000-7500. In my experience it all depends on the pathing and if the parties near the NMs do stupid ***and get killed by them. Gimp said: » While we're at it, what is considered bad,good, best plasma farming numbers? I'll be honest I didn't know people were getting 7 to 8k until I read this. Are you killing nms in morimar also? Our server does Ceizak for 4.5 A run With a mix of good/bad delve, REM, and my kanto. It's not optimal(like a pug really is) but it workable. Pretty much in morimar the stupid fin super eva modes slows ***way down morimar doesn't have the issue... Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. If you obliterated everyone with a 95 amano on a 7500 plasm run, then it could have been a 9-9.5K plasm run with proper weapons. If you were top damage against Delve DD's as you used a 85 Masa, due to you being the only who was hitting it -- you were with horrible players, and improperly buffed. It is not a shocker that there are indeed people out there who are worse than whatever an 85-95 R/E has to offer. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Run your own parser with everyone's else damage filtered cause that's a parse I love to read. That would have to be a group of peeps who just didn't care enough to even change out of town gear or bother to ws at all. The simple math on the delve weapons can't be ignored it's pretty huge boost to dps no matter which weapon you take... Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Okay, now take every DD in that group replace their weps with 85 emps, and you think you'd still be getting the same plasm? really, repops can be more limitting than killspeed if you coordinate well and use brds Sylph.Wardeniii said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. If you obliterated everyone with a 95 amano on a 7500 plasm run, then it could have been a 9-9.5K plasm run with proper weapons. If you were top damage against Delve DD's as you used a 85 Masa, due to you being the only who was hitting it -- you were with horrible players, and improperly buffed. It is not a shocker that there are indeed people out there who are worse than whatever an 85-95 R/E has to offer. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Okay, now take every DD in that group replace their weps with 85 emps, and you think you'd still be getting the same plasm? really, repops can be more limitting than killspeed if you coordinate well and use brds and 6k once isn't 7k+ average Gimp said: » While we're at it, what is considered bad,good, best plasma farming numbers? I'll be honest I didn't know people were getting 7 to 8k until I read this. Are you killing nms in morimar also? Our server does Ceizak for 4.5 A run With a mix of good/bad delve, REM, and my kanto. It's not optimal(like a pug really is) but it workable. Most runs are in Ceizek, at least on Lakshmi. They'll get you 4~5K per run unless the leader is an idiot and the parties are unbalanced, then your looking at 3K. Morimar really depends 5K if you run it like Ceizek which some people do. If your parties are built like merit burns (BRD + COR + healer + DD x 3) then you can split them up and have one camp the big room and the other roam the hallways. Good Morimar runs will net you 7~8K and I've done that without Delve weapons (was still saving for my Bereaver). I've built a high end group and did Ceizek with a roaming party, still only got 5.8K and that's killing everything while dodging Mothra / Gnat. Buff quality, party composition and puller speed is FAR more important then using a Delve weapon over a 99 RME. Bereaver is at level 7, Minkin feet are level 7, Minkin legs are level 8 and got the super earring combo (eyeballing the neck and sword for BLU). Good lord upgrading these items is ridiculously expensive. I've been in quite a few of Lithdrae's of Bismarck's runs. We've seen plasm yields as high as 7100 in a group of mixes with/without R/E/M/D weapons ranging from 85 Emps, to 99 Relics, and 99 Delves.
There is a serious catch 22 in wanting to have people get delve weapons before being allowed to participate in delve. This includes Delve Field and Delve Fracture NMs, since some people have not had the fortunate experience to get the needed KIs. Personally, I am 6/6 Delve KI, but I would think that for the available gear, some people should first be shooting for either a 95-99 relic, 90+ Empyrean (dependant on which), 99 Mythic, or a Wildskeeper Reive weapon. If your weapon is acceptable, make sure your gear is acceptable, and that you can pay attention, and follow instructions. Keep in mind that some people simply don't have the best play times to do the shout groups to get the T4/5 Clears for weapons. Half the time on Bismarck the people asking "R/E/M/D Only" weapons, are the gimpest players imaginable. They have no skill, they continually *** up and wipe the alliance, etc. so they are they only ones really profitting. While the delve weapons, in most cases are better by far mathematically speaking they mean jack ***in the hands of someone who's only going to hit 30% of the time at best, versus someone who deal adequate or higher damage with a 70% hit rate.
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Sylph.Tigerwoods said: » Quote: Bad is an exaggeration. It's indeed pretty low on the ladder by now but it's still enough to clear Delve/Fracture, so it's hard to call it bad. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So yes 85/95 aren't downright bad, they're worse than X, but not bad since they still allow you to clear and progress. And they still have the potential to beat what is considered best based on players. The way people talk is wrong because listening to some of you, if you don't have X you better not play, period. The same way as you would like us to swallow that, I'd like you to swallow that some random people with subpar weapons can still come around the corner and slap people's ***left and right until they reach the same gear as them and carry their *** farming even more plasms.
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