[Dev] Delve Updates, Holding Times & Bosses

I swear when we were fighting Mastop and did a light sc all the dd's attack speed went WAY up. I was swinging for like 30 seconds non stop. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Could be due to virtually always having eight songs and four rolls on each of our many Rigor MNKs, but we've never required SC/MB

That probably doesn't apply to more than a handful of people that play this game, but, yeah

Are you talking outside NM killing or sequential NM killing inside of the fracture

Inside a fracture you're probably going to want to SC/MB the relevant mobs for the sake of time

Someone obviously has never been in a group with an anywhere near decent MNK.

What can a geo do. I have won many runs with many groups. No geo. People run often so pets would be worthless. Maybe my fury spell.

From what I understand he's saying that NMs are kept in one spot so that the pet would actually always be relevant when farming them.

I haven't done any NM farm in Delve but when I went and held a NM, I wasn't kiting it so it would make sense that if they have a good buff, it can be exploited fully.

This update made it so Battlemod thinks your smn avatar is an "other" now i think. Not sure where to post this so putting it here I guess. I can tell because my pets color is different in log now and I can't see it's damage :(

Yep sorry guys I forgot about MNK, they definitely belong in the A list jobs. Mythic DRG used to belong there, though the new weapons kinda put them back down the line. In either case Mythic DRG was incredibly rare and fell into a special exemption category. The point was you wouldn't accept a random PUG DRG but you would accept a random PUG DRK/SAM/WAR. NIN is in the "hell no" category for the same reason BLU and DNC are, they provide absolutely nothing to the group that can't be done by a more specialized individual. This has become fairly obvious, which party was the NIN put in for big voidwatch fights? It wasn't where they could get songs / rolls to maximize their damage, if you even bothered to bring them at all (most procs could be done by a BRD with /NIN).

And lol at Sylow. Seriously lol. He had to resort to Ad hominem due to the ridiculousness of his original statement.

While it is true that people judge a lot based on the job, they also judge based on the name.

It sucks because good unknown players will never be seen as what they really are but oh well, if you're good and have time to put into the game, you'll always reach a point where you're somewhat known.

Once you reach this status, you go PUP to anything.

Nope you'll be asked to change to something relevant to the content being done. This is why the 20m limit was such a bad idea, before you could win the fight by utilizing a variety of job combos even though they were not optimized for pure damage output. Now that we've entered the world of limited time combined with ridiculous offensive AoE's it's become a matter of killing it dead RFN. The faster you kill it the less time it has to screw with you and since you can't "play it safe" anymore a wipe could cause you to lose the fight.

I remember you mentioning it like 20 times while we were fighting it lol.

Honestly I've never heard of getting haste boosts for doing a Light Skillchain but could be a special condition on this NM. I know a few NMs are tricky, maybe you are on to something.

Please let me know if you find anything about this.

Would you be so kind to enlighten me on this? I'm not saying GEO isn't great. But since I haven't even played the job I'm clueless on what it can bring to the table when farming Delve NM's.

Edit: Oh and I don't think we have a GEO on the LS.

Uwot.

There is a point where a person is known as being decent/good and people will not think twice when he/she says "I'll come as X to DD". They know he/she's here to DD and he/she wouldn't come as X if it wasn't to do so.

If you can't make people see you that way, trust you, believe that you're not here to drink tea, then that mean that you are mediocre.

There will always be a margin of error in FFXI, which will always allow people to come as any DD as long as they mean business. Even Nyzul wasn't an exception to this and the more member you can bring, the more margin you get.

Too bad another job cant enfeeble in game anymore (R.I.P RDM) but ya this just seems like they wont people to be carried in fights and if your gonna make stuff harder drop rates should be increased. I dont wanna blow all my time on something with a bad drop rate while carrying people with a time limit.

This is very relevant. I see many shouts that I would potentially join if the person shouting wasn't ignorant or simply lacking in end-game experience. You can watch the way anyone plays and tell what type of player they are. You can look at an alliance setup and tell what type of experience a player has. There are players I will join shouts for that I wouldn't even question. Then there are those that I wouldn't join at all.

RUN can solo suzaku, its pretty funny to watch them eat chainspell fire damage and ask for seconds.

Also RUN is pretty good at holding certain NMs inside delve runs. I'll agree its definitely not a job going to waste for solo/group content if people gear it well.

Giving people the option to stand out there and congest a pop location for 2-4 hours because they try to use strategies from 7 years ago is in no way a good thing.

Rdm can actually still enfeeble in Delve pretty well; you just need much more MagAcc (through Mnd for white enfeebles, Int for black) than you would think. I have +105 Mnd and +207 Magacc (after Mnd conversions and with Gain-Mnd) in my white enfeebling set, and my landing rate on NQ and HQ mobs in Fracture is ~90%. Hell, I can land most of my enfeebles in there on Sch without Altruism.

However, Geo's spells can't be resisted, making it more consistent and reliable, albeit not as potent. (Also, it's able to easily slow earth-based mobs, etc.) Given the choice, I would take Rdm over Geo for new content, but I'm biased. As to carrying less able players, I agree completely; every piece of gear in the game should not be obtainable by every player, imo. That might sound somewhat elitist, but the sense of accomplishment when you receive a top-tier piece of equipment is diminished when you see SniperxWeedxx420xxheadshot running around in it a couple of days later.

Anyway, rant over.

Considering I can hold NMs in Delve as SAM/WAR, I don't really know what you're getting at.

Seeing SniperxWeedxx420xxheadshot in a top peice of gear that took him 2 days to get compared to my 2 months doesn't upset me at all. He obviously had to kill the same NM or complete the same tasks in order to get it. Why shoudn't any paying player be able to get the same gear. So much of this game boils down to luck when it comes to drops. His luck may be a bit better when it comes to certain items. Probably worse when it comes to other items. So long as these players have to do the same thing I did to get it then they deserve to wear it.

I'm all for gear being accessible to absolutely everyone - as long as the work:reward ratio is right.

Old HNM's are a reasonable example - You put time into your character to get reasonable gear, you got into a decent HNMLS. After you've put your time into your HNM LS, you got your Dalmy, or Adaberk, or Black Belt. *** Now, admittedly you could just buy whatever item it was you were after, but that still (assuming no RMT use) took time and money. Time and money is equivalent to effort in any regards.

I like the Dominion/Bastion/Campaign/Assault/Einherjar style system of Work:Reward - enter event, get points, trade points for gear. No major randomness involved (unlike drop rates from Omega, Ultima, Tiamat, King Behemoth, etc).

I know my examples are pretty dated, but I've not done any remote Endgame since Abyssea was released. I have a few +2 pieces, a bunch of solo'd +1's. I've cleared Sandy T1 VW only, done Reive once - so, my examples are pretty much the last "big things" I had any extensive experience with.


*** EDIT added!

Except there was no congestion, none at all. That was an incredibly flimsy excuse that SE used to nerf PUG alliances because they didn't want players acquiring the KI's too fast. If congestion ever become a problem in the future, just do what they did for Sobek and every other heavily poped NM in abyssea.

Strawman. You didn't say "any DD" you said
*cough* *cough*

Upon which I replied


Then you inserted a ton more blathering that had no connection to the original post.

Various content requires specific roles be filled to an acceptable level. Unfortunately hard time limits dramatically limit the definition of "acceptable level". What's worse is as you give the target content more cheap moves or ways to screw you over your margin of error shrinks even further. That only serves to marginalize players with limited playtime as those living in their parents basement or with no social commitments will have the resources to adapt to those stricter limits.

In short, no your not bringing PUP to a delve NM fight. You'd just end up being dead weight and someone else would have to carry you. This is the harsh truth of "end game" and why I've always found it rather tasteless all the negative things that get said on the media forums of the shrine of azure underwear. Their essentially celebrating their excess of time, nothing else.

I gave gimps a chance last night.

They have officially failed me.

Just because you haven't seen a properly played job doesn't mean that it has no place in end-game. I've seen a couple amazing PUP that could easily carry a well geared SAM/DRK/WAR and have more survivability. You should realize the job doesn't make the player good. Skill is something this game has lost the requirement for. But skill still seperates those that are knowledgable and those that aren't.

It's nice to know that the mediocre players on Lakshmi are also incapable of forming an alliance. On Sylph however, our underpowered and uninformed have been spawning these NM's constantly for the past week. You can could go to bivouac 1 in Ceizak any time of day before this patch and see someone desperately clinging onto a moth that they had been fighting for 2+ hours.

Ahh your one of those....

Yeah .. take your PUP elsewhere and go play with your dolls in a corner.

Mediocre players everywhere are generally incapable of doing these things. They only have a few hours per week of playtime and then to just cling to whatever /shout comes along that happens to be what they want done. In the past few days I've had to explain to an rather large social shell exactly what Delve was and how to get the rewards from it. Several of them I had to direct to ffxiah and bgwiki, they didn't know what those were.

People really need to understand that those of us who read these sites, keep up with builds, news and other pertinent meta-game information are in the incredibly small minority. Things we take as "normal" or "duh" might not be so clear to the majority of players, FFXI has a HORRIBLE system of teaching players how to play. Your pretty much thrown into the shark infested pool and expected to learn to swim on your own. Those who do sorta get by, those who don't end up in BG's media forums and those who learn to ride on the backs of others end up leading big shells (sorry old school joke).

Dumb question here but I'm curious. If mediocre, uninformed players are not allowed to participate in these events with decent/informed players, and you *** at them when they decide to take it upon themselves to take on the events. How are they supposed to be become decent/informed players?