[Dev] Matsui: Delve And Content Level

Fartler would be awesome.

That is a great point. It gives them the opportunity to kill multiple birds with one stone

they could make it an improvement on VW where the NMs would drop seals

It would almost make more sense to me if you could do the same augmenting for the r/e/m weapons with the ghastly stones. I don't see that happening but it would almost make sense with the new content. Almost ....

What should be done to implement changes:
Create Alliance hate in the Fracture & no plasm obtained if your KO just like Exp.
this would prevent further (SAC) farming of trash mobs. This form of farming is only hurting people allowing them to farm to sell (RMT also) & or upgrade gear/weapons. As people farm plasm to upgrade gear they actually are not learning how to delve, they only farm plasm leading to more confused players who may have good upgrades but don't know the 1st thing about how to use it or even work together as a team.

JP are practicing/clearing and few LS actually clear The Fracture wile the rest just farm pointless mobs and waist time w/o actually finding a strat to even attempt a clear. (Why make these upgrades if you don't plan to even progress?) Answer: to look good but be worthless

I no a lot of people will dislike this idea but I belive it should be done. This content is allowing any player to attend & attain top tier equiptment when infact this should be a achievement and separate the players, bring in higher caliber players to attend plasm farm. If you don't know how to clear the fracture you should learn & practice otherwise you don't belong there. Most people are behind and never even attempted to kill more than Mata and don't belong stepping foot in Ulbuka's's Terrain

People trash the noobs and reject them because of the lack in skill, well they are being taught to play this way and will remain noobs without any clue how to be a better player. Make this change and there would be more skilled players and better leaders for everyone to progress with, it's a win win

IMO making this change would do alot and acualy make plasm cleaars more common with learning plaayers. rather than a bunch of idiots running wild on trash mobs ranting how they pulled a 9k plasm run wile there pld is De Lv his job in shame. Who ever started the SAC idea was probably a great Key *** in abysea and who ever continues to use this strat is worthless. I know some will agree/disagree so say what you will, I am posting this in hope Dev reads it and considers it or it makes it to the team for a idea to make changes and stop this nonsense.

Thanks for reading and hope this sparks some attention! Troll away all!!!!

Honestly, You need to do base plasm farming to get plasm to start into the NM/Boss farming runs. You should not be expected to just jump into a fracture being ready to farm NM/MB. Either way is perfectly logical and people that dont do NM/MB farms can further enhance their gear with both the airlixers that they get from mob and buying the occasional +1/+2 when they reach that threshold to buy one.

Secondly, if you are planning to do a NM/MB farming run, you should be eliminating atleast 2-3 NM anyway to save time for the actual MB fight. You waste a good 5-7 minutes/NM when you could be killing the MB with room for errors not to *** your run.

Really kinda sad to see the curb back to HNM era logic that only the "top tier" players should be moving into fractures.

if its not your place to teach me then why are you explaining grammar to me? All can read it even with a few mispells. People seem to have issue with words not being 100% correct and act like everyone must type in a such a manor as they where applying to be president. Some dont care & some may not know. Either way its ridiculous when someone quotes just to tell them they spelled wrong but dont comment on the point of the post. Does it bother you people that much that you just have to put in your 2cents to tell them there wording or punctuation isnt 100% to your standards? I think some of you need to get out more and find better things to do than be the grammar police.

Anyway Those are good points, although doing a SAC farm is allowing under skilled players to pose as a High caliber player.
We all know that just because you have good gear doesn't make you a good player. Implementing something along those lines (not saying my exact idea) but similar way to prevent SAC farms and push for more skilled farming. Also not saying people have to push for MB every time but to practice and progress with better time on NMs to create a solid strait with potential. It's not the HNM days because its Easier for low caliber & casual players to attain the new equipment than it was back then. Allowing virtually anyone who can read the chat log for instructions & understand there job to participate, and also in the process would make the content more friendly to lower skilled players who want to learn it and be more useful.

Also Dev should have created a different way to farm higher amounts of plasm besides field NMs, something like a low tier fracture with no NMs or something for people to start with before progressing to NMs. But people don't need Delve weapons/gear to kill T1-T2 Delve NMs so that's no excuse to ignore them. Plus you get more plasm/airlixers for doing so.

But also Fracture should be treated like HNM days because if you have any lacking players it will impact your hole alliance. Working your way from 1 NM to 5NMs a run and eventually Boss clear. Being said Everyone need to be on there A game with teamwork. It's not a place for teal mages & twilight SAMs to hold hands.

Anyway im Going to sleep I will see where this post went in the a.m and hopefully I didn't start any drama, please try to keep it a simple discussion with ideas rather than nonsense arguing!

Thanks!

im not saying let the people who just finished shinryu jump into delve parties. Thats just not good.

But yea, i honestly dislike that direction that even if you have almost to optimal (like just below,but still "decent" you cant join) :( Kinda frustrating unless you can stay in the game 24/7 or have nothing else to do in-game or can throw gil at the game and win.

Communication is not a hard concept. This is what it takes to win at Delve, above all else. Yes, better gear helps, but it means nothing if you can't follow direction. Groups have worked extremely hard to provide you all with information on how to defeat various NMs in the fracture. You need to follow their directions.

As unfortunate as it may be, you need to screen your members before entering if you want a legitimate run at NMs. You cannot take just anyone into Delve. I enjoy that aspect, it requires you to become competent at your jobs (at least in Delve). Abyssea was very much a "throw bodies at it until it dies" mentality. Delve requires actually taking a look at where you screwed up as a player to be able to progress onward. Decent players can get in, they need to be able to take direction though and know how to play their role in Delve. When you break down these fights, they have become very simple. Everyone just needs to know what their role is and accept that. Epeen will get everyone killed and will lead to garbage runs, plain and simple.

Practice makes perfect, and unfortunately progress in Delve has been stifled by players not wanting to accept that they need to change their playing style to suit this content. It's not impossible, it's just seems that way at times.

Itchi508
Go to bed and cry over your pillow, dude.
Sad that you were a proud rem and suddenly everyone have delve? Sad that you suddenly got delve and everyone have top rank delve?
And now you blame rmt because you are now in the same ground as most of delve players that never did once a trial.
Get Serious, what you are proposing is "now we come back to top, so stop giving delves so we can remain elite". Changing delves now will only turn things unfair to guys that didnt even started yet.
I wasted my time hoping to see some useful follow up from dev team and all i see is some dude doing a necro bump over a post from april to say some ideas not even your dog is interested.
Not happy? Quit. Easy like that.

You don't even make sense jackass try reading again. Am I bitching or QQ? My reasoning was explained to teach the lower class players how to delve and create a larger number of people that can clear the fracture and stop doing the trash mob SAC farm.

Your a idiot if you think I'm QQ cuz that's not the case at all. No where did I *** or cry about weapons etc and I'm perfectly happy no reason to quit cuz im not mad or butt hurt, just giving a option. If you would rather be a scrub doing pointless plasm farm then so be it but some people would like to actually clear the fracture & learn rather than just jerk off in it and suck to much to even attempt killing 1/5 NMs. But there not givin the chance as most people just leach plasm and settle for less. Idk about you but I like to exceed the expectations and take on challenges SE gives rather than suck and 1/2 *** it. Play together, learn together, teach each other & communicate. If that is done people will clear fracture but as of now the lower class players are being taught to play like ***by lazy or inexperienced leaders who just SAC farm and they will remain lower class players because no one try's to clear fracture thus never giving people a chance to succeed.

Doing such changes would separate the class of a player as it should be. Under skilled idiots like you should not be in the fracture. My point was that teaching people to actually clear the fracture would in the long run teach more people giving lower class players a chance, as it is now they are rejected from a SAC farm which takes no skill at all to do. And not to mention you act like getting & upgrading delve gear is hard. It's by far the easiest gear to attain for anyone and only takes time to accomplish upgrades, no skill is needed.

I'm proposing a change that can help everyone learn to do the content the way it was intend and stop bein brainless zombies with no skill. Your post doesn't even make sense taking about me being REM owner ect your rambling is nonsense. And wtf are you talking about RMT? Go read again dumbass please, do yourself a favor and stop making a *** out of yourself.

Running around with a bereaver doesn't make you elite so don't worry too much about that. We laugh at all farming runs equally, sac or no.

QFT

So funny ppl, condescending behind their little screen, in their little mommy's basement. get a life.

If you have to get such a mentality why don't you play a solo game?

I could write a lot of flaws of your post but will stop with what you wrote: "teach lower class player".
None asked you to teach sh... And who do you think you are to teach something to someone?
And yeah, right, please clear all fractures with an alliance that never did at least 20 of this "brainless run", that is it, that dont have delves weapon.
Get serious, you need to do this to actually be able to challenge mega bosses. Farming and clearing are complete different things, and the second requires the first, and a lot of times.
And allowing more and more players to get delves mean allowing more and more alliances that can clear content.
Btw quoting what you said, why do you think that guys upgrade their stuffs and dont do runs to win?
And if happen, wtf do you have with that? Thats not you fu...ing bussiness. Mind your own life.

It doesn't require delve gear/weapons to kill T1-T3 and practice, attain more plasm per runs and eventually work to boss win. Doing sac farm is only keeping the lower class players inexperienced. I'd like to see more people that are capable of joining a fracture clear. And your right no one asked me to do ***but it's a MMO where everyone has a say and some people try to better the surrounding people. also no one asked you to speak but you did.

fracture has been out for over a month & a half and people still just resort to sac farms. Probably 85% or more never even attempt to kill NMs. Don't you think it's time to try? Also you tell me I'm QQ yet you seem pretty pist about this idea. Would this be because you where a ***player with no REM who got rejected? And now you feel cool cuz u got Delve and can keep up with the big boys? If you wana cry do it else where this was a idea, you could have rejected it in other ways but you chose to be a *** and run your mouth like a child

Probably because they're not one of the people that are satisfied with 5k runs. It's just as sad to be amazingly shitty at this game as it is to be capable of doing things. And one doesn't require much more effort than the other.

Gotta love how folks say to get rid of one (semi-) effective way to farm and move forward. The content right now requires you to do one of two three things:

1) Play the job that you like even though it's not optimal for this content, but keep in mind that the odds of getting into plasm farms are slim to nil. For example, I like playing BLU. This has been a recent development for me--it was a job that fit me like a freaking glove and I shoulda unlocked it sooner. Never seen one in farms, so yeah.

2) Level up/gear up a job that's gonna make your gameplay absolutely MISERABLE, but if it helps you move forward, meh might as well. I went the "lesser of 3 evils" route and currently leveling COR as a fallback when I can't get in on SCH. Not enough donations for alcohol to do BRD or WHM.

3) Quit altogether.

If folks want to sac, which according to a friend of mine who does it, is boring as all freaking sin, and the alli wants one, then by all freaking means let em. It ain't hurting you or your farms at all. Let's assume they do implement something like that, and folks gotta do stuff. Won't affect anyone who's been going to sacless runs. Will, however, affect those who are doing these runs as a means to an end, whether to get plasm for a delve weapon or to get it to sell (and RMT's ain't got time for doing all of that--most RMT's I've seen get Perle and they're good; Delve content requires way more gear investment, which is time they won't spend). It would ultimately hurt those who are trying to move forward in terms of gear.

I dunno about you, mr. itchi sir, but being stagnant in this game actually makes me want to quit. I like progression; it makes me feel like I'm doing those who I'm playing with a favor by actually not sticking with Perle and thinking that I should get into current endgame.

I blacklist players in great gear who are utter fail, so when I do organise events / MB I only invite people with actual ability.

You can not have it both ways, we either invite newbs and fail the run, or we dont invite them, and actually win. No one wants to spend more time explaining stuff, training people, when they could just spend 10 minutes longer getting people they know are good, rather than possibly a life time training a new player, IE Duim, when they don't have the necessary IQ points to retain said knowledge, resulting in wasted time all round.

Bad players, are bad because they allow themselves to be. I know people who started this game 6 months ago, and I would consider them some of the best I have played with.

There was one person in my ls who complained about how hard Ukon was to make, but when asked what jobs he could farm as WAR was his only answer. When it was suggested he should level something else to be more versatile, he said why should he? Well, to get the shiny weapon you want obviously... This is a prime example of a lazy player who is bad, because they're either an idiot, under the age of 10 (which makes allowances for the childish responce) or too lazy to actually get on with the game and get somewhere, and just wants everything handed to him.

Ok but this way of farming wouldn't be possible w/o twilight set and De Lv your job is not a efficient way to farm. SE didn't intend it to be farmed like this they just didn't do a good job at limiting people to use the flaws as a form of progression. The only reason SAC is used is cuz of twilight and cuz someone said Hmmm how can we get more plasm will less skill. In most peoples minds when they fail they give up. When they should over see what went wrong and fix it on the next attempt

Who sac's the NM's? Our PLD's dont die, you just need to find better PLD's

Idk about your server but every /sh here uses a sac. And I no Fenrir isn't the only server doing it. It's a horrid way to farm in general for everyone, most people feeling cool cuz they parse high on trash mobs n rip 7ks. But neglect the real challenge they choose to avoid cuz there to scared to even try to fight something that is "hard"

Not something we use on Cerberus to be honest. I have seen it once, but for some reason it didn't take off.

I use delve fracture farms to find competent mages / tanks / DD so I would never allow SAC as a method. I'm obviously looking for people with the ability to take down a MB so SAC strat would hinder my attempts.

This is a bad point, forcing people to learn is not bad, it helps everyone. If they have no choice but to kill NMs to farm then people will find ways to kill the NMs if they want plasm and in the process they will make it to the boss w/o any issues. They may not beat boss yet but that's the grind of practice and farm. Learning & teaching. Along with most people who do want to do a boss clear they /sh and what do they get? People whom have only done trash mob sac farming. Still think its a good idea? Invite people with LV15 Delve gear/weapons "thinking there legit" cuz you screen them before a invite, when in reality there trash and can't read or understand directions. They go in hard and die trying to parse high n show off cuz they don't know how to control there Dmg to avoid enmity. Or screw up bard/cor rotation and or a simple strategy you already covered and asked 5x if any questions or concerns.
IMO if you aren't willing to try and or are not capable of participating in a run and pulling your own weight, you shouldn't be there. People seem to think that these lower class players have a place in these high end NMs. W/o being taught 1st they don't belong there.
This is the outcome of Sac farming. Getting under skilled players w/o a brain who have LV delve ***posing as a veteran and you wont know the difference unless you know them.

You act like exp is so hard to get anymore. I've never played a sac, but losing 53k exp in one run while wearing a set that gives rr equivalent to I think rr 3? How the hell?

But really, if it works for em to move forward (and if it means not being forced to level whm for them), by all means. Personally, I'd feel more comfy with them sacing nm's than if they were in a support job that they can't play worth a damn.


Actually, yes, I think that if it helps in progression, then let em play Sac. These "lower class players" as you gracefully call them do need these as well. And guess what? A lot of em are trying to climb up the gear ladder, but can't because everyone has their nose in Delve. I go into town and I see plasm farms in /yell and those get filled up faster than the /yells for say, NNI or even Empy seal/+2 farms. At least on Asura. Those who are trying to better themselves aren't getting the help they need to move forward.

Lol Point exactly, they shouldn't be there if they can't play there job correctly. And if they cant attain AF3+2 then they shouldn't even come to the new content cuz a lot of AF3 & relic gear is still used.
I just don't understand how people actually support and back this up like its a viable way to play. And for people who sac, you actually want that guy in the same party as you joining a delve run w/ Lv15 gear looking pimp, yet the only thing he's done is be a Sac? Are people that desperate lol

I'm not arguing I see some points that are valid but they are not a good excuse for the way people play. The fault is both, SE's way of creating content with flaws and the people who take advantage of it. People farm how they want, I just giving a alternative to force people to start actually working the fracture as it was meant and stop jerking off in there. Be nice to see some /sh that actually have potential. It wouldn't single out any players cuz people would be practicing on Nms getting more plasm per run and more airlixers with free gear. Also if people can't get into runs then they should make there own.

Problem with making your own runs is that from my understanding, there is a KI you need to start fractures. So you either need to hope you have a friend who has one, or get it yourself. I don't do a lot of plasm farms (mostly because I'm still in KI collecting mode--need 2 more here), so I could be wrong, but that is one reason why folks don't start their own runs.

The second reason is the time factor. You can't exactly start a run then be like "oh ***, gtg!" Because there goes 2 hours of everyone's day. I don't like starting my own runs for anything because of this reason, and if I know that I can't dedicate 2 hours, then I just won't go--family comes before game.

I'm really not very enthusiastic about the idea of pick up groups being able to challenge mega bosses anytime soon, sure it doesn't help that most people aren't practising the nms, but it's nowhere near as simple as practise makes perfect.

Most shouts are aimed at getting as much plasm as possible, and sac just happens to be the most efficient way (presuming you don't *** up when pulling nms). 1 person holding nms is better than 2 people etc.

Geez >.>; that kind of thread really make me think this game is dead & that ppl should move on.

Higher Class/Lower class... the *** i'm reading here O.o people are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, end of the story.


The other day I was reading on BG in the gimp thread, someone tried to get another player kicked of the alliance for being gimp, I think thoses high class player have a little bit of efforts to make to play with medium class players.



On that bolded point I wont disagree with you, I'm even going to say that you're 900% right here, but its where everyone get confused on this single argument, is that learning to spend X time farming to make a R/E/M? No its not, its getting fed up.

When you're not accepted in a group because you don't have one of theses weapons its where its becoming really ridiculous.

You get 20 relics/Empy/Mythic, congratulation to you, its very nice & everyone is happy for you, but it shouldn't mean that it is a requirement for any DD.


I know what I just said might sound irelevant but most of the time even when you've got decent gear you're told to leave or kicked just because you miss medium gear upgrade.

Then the ppl doing this will QQ because there wont be enough player to play with them? lol.