Quetzalcoatl.Zubis said: »
Looks like no more "Empy or gtfo" for Voidwatch anymore at the very least.
It'll turn into this
"what DD jobs do you have?"
"vere MNK"
"no Tlalpoloani? no thanks"
Emergency Maintenance Mini Update
emergency maintenance mini update
It'll turn into this
"what DD jobs do you have?"
"vere MNK"
"no Tlalpoloani? no thanks"
They can toss the REM's. but unlike armor swaps. Their is no way to do those weapon skills that you unlocked on E/R. Unlike M's. If they devalue the main R/E, then they should let those holders do those weapon skills all the time.
If they could then their is also a chance that they may like a new weapon that comes out with different stats as it could possibly out dmg the weapon skill with its stats it holds. Even if not, you don't lose out on an ability you unlocked.
If they could then their is also a chance that they may like a new weapon that comes out with different stats as it could possibly out dmg the weapon skill with its stats it holds. Even if not, you don't lose out on an ability you unlocked.
Asura.Ccl said: »
What's the point of playing an MMO if you're like omg my weapon that come out 5 years ago is "outdated" by something new ?
Never outdating zilart wpn was(is?) very poor design.
As of now, a lot of casual can't even do group stuff cause they don't have time/ressource to farm e/r/m and grinding dynamis/camping low lvl NM for 8h when you work/school/busy is not possible nor enjoyable.
I'm glad Tomonari is very close to amano and +1 is better for mid level content, it give more casual people an easier goal, and give new stuff to get for more hardcore people.
Never outdating zilart wpn was(is?) very poor design.
As of now, a lot of casual can't even do group stuff cause they don't have time/ressource to farm e/r/m and grinding dynamis/camping low lvl NM for 8h when you work/school/busy is not possible nor enjoyable.
I'm glad Tomonari is very close to amano and +1 is better for mid level content, it give more casual people an easier goal, and give new stuff to get for more hardcore people.
What's the point to play MMO if one item you spend THAT much time to obtain means nothing when the time you spend on another skill irl can probably stay with you? It's either keeping R/E/M relevant via new content upgrade so ppl keep doing new content, or making R/E/M not THAT time consuming to begin with.
Since they already made R/E/M THAT time consuming, it's already too late. The only path is to keep it relevant to prevent ppl rage quit.
New ex/rare beating R/E/M doesn't "give casual ppl easier goal, and new stuff to get for hardcore ppl". It's more like "give casual ppl a goal, and slap in the face for hardcore ppl" Making a piece of equip in an MMO that takes YEARS to get, then outdate it with (likely) easier to obtain gear, is also very poor design in an MMO. They are way better off just make R/E/M 50 hours of grind, that way nobody would complain if we toss it.
I'm ok with casual gets an easier goal, or someone not maining that job gets an easier alternative, in fact I think none-R/E/M gears should be closer to current R/E/M in terms of performance, so we have more time to gear/play more jobs.
As long as it doesn't make R/E/M inferior and waste THAT much amount of time. Being 1% behind R/E/M is different from beating R/E/M. And IMO, easier to obtain piece being 1% behind most time consuming piece is better design than making years of effort go to waste.
You can't use other MMO's standard for FFXI, other MMO that release gear often doesn't require this much mind numbing grind(and generally more fun to play with ._.), and ppl already know their gear gonna die after next update before they invest the time.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Like someone said already, the new h2h doesn't suddenly turn a 99 Vere in a piece of junk unless you apply a "if you're not first you're last" mentality, but that has nothing to do with the viability of options. Besides, these will probably be very difficult to obtain like glowing weapons from VW/Legion.
And Matsui already stated he'll make sure r/e/m stay on top, so they're probably gonna get buffed if necessary.
And Matsui already stated he'll make sure r/e/m stay on top, so they're probably gonna get buffed if necessary.
Whether new h2h made current R/E/M irrelevant or not isn't the main point, but it's more like it's a sign/first step that certain value existed in FFXI for ages going to crash if that's what dev is planning....next update we're just going to see more weapons with even higher base dmg. For those already invest in R/E/M, it's like buying gold with all you have the gold price crash next morning lol.
[+]
While I still want my weapons to be top notch, and I bet they will be, I really wont assume that will always be the case.
Let's look at WoW, which is a huge success, and other companies do look to this game sometimes.
People who had the best gear at level 80, when the new expansion came out, they got upgrades from quests while levling to 90.
We've had the luxery of some 75 gear to still be amazing thanks to augments etc, but I really wont count on old gear never beeing replaced, even the best that took ages to get.
Let's look at WoW, which is a huge success, and other companies do look to this game sometimes.
People who had the best gear at level 80, when the new expansion came out, they got upgrades from quests while levling to 90.
We've had the luxery of some 75 gear to still be amazing thanks to augments etc, but I really wont count on old gear never beeing replaced, even the best that took ages to get.
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
While I still want my weapons to be top notch, and I bet they will be, I really wont assume that will always be the case.
Let's look at WoW, which is a huge success, and other companies do look to this game sometimes.
People who had the best gear at level 80, when the new expansion came out, they got upgrades from quests while levling to 90.
We've had the luxery of some 75 gear to still be amazing thanks to augments etc, but I really wont count on old gear never beeing replaced, even the best that took ages to get.
Let's look at WoW, which is a huge success, and other companies do look to this game sometimes.
People who had the best gear at level 80, when the new expansion came out, they got upgrades from quests while levling to 90.
We've had the luxery of some 75 gear to still be amazing thanks to augments etc, but I really wont count on old gear never beeing replaced, even the best that took ages to get.
E body needs to go
People raged even when scorp harness dropped in price. People rage about everything.
[+]
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
While I still want my weapons to be top notch, and I bet they will be, I really wont assume that will always be the case.
Let's look at WoW, which is a huge success, and other companies do look to this game sometimes.
People who had the best gear at level 80, when the new expansion came out, they got upgrades from quests while levling to 90.
We've had the luxery of some 75 gear to still be amazing thanks to augments etc, but I really wont count on old gear never beeing replaced, even the best that took ages to get.
Let's look at WoW, which is a huge success, and other companies do look to this game sometimes.
People who had the best gear at level 80, when the new expansion came out, they got upgrades from quests while levling to 90.
We've had the luxery of some 75 gear to still be amazing thanks to augments etc, but I really wont count on old gear never beeing replaced, even the best that took ages to get.
But you just can't compare FFXI with other MMO/WoW ._.
In other MMO, it's
1. often more fun to do raid, and you get reward while having fun.
In FFXI you do dynamis repeatedly for months years for every single R/E/M. It's not a reward for new content, more like a result of mindless grind.
2. In other MMO it doesn't take THAT long to get an item. And generally has faster pace than XI.
It's easy to toss an item you spend 50 hours on, not so easy to toss an item you spend years on it and sacrifice countless rl time on event for.
If they want to make gear obsolete in every update, they need to do so right from the start, with faster pace, and they need to let ppl clearly know that from the start: "if you want to invest 100 hours on this item, it's your choice, but it's going to die after next update"
In the case of FFXI, R/E/M is called "legendary weapons", and got a buff since lv cap increase. Those who invest in R/E/M had a mind set that this weapon is the top tier weapon in FFXI, and their investment will be worth it. There are ppl who refuse to invest gil on atmacite, ppl who can't afford expensive AH gears/hex -1, and they still invest in R/E/M because they thought it's going to stay on top before they invest time/money in it.
If wanting new stuff/do new content is what you care about, this is easy to solve without tossing R/E/M, such as an item from new content that can transform current R/E/M to more powerful weapons. However I really don't understand why would someone think it's ok to spend years of boring grind to get an item just to toss it.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
People raged even when scorp harness dropped in price. People rage about everything.
I wasn't in scorp harness era so idk how ppl made gil at that time....I'm guessing they rage probably because they farmed silk thread for 3 months straight to buy one....and if you don't rage after killing crawlers for 3 months straight for nothing, then you probably won't rage at anything anymore w.
If you can'tstand something you worked hard for to go "to waste"(It will most likely still be awesome/close to top tier for a while), quit while you're ahead lol.
How is it a slap in your face that there is better wpn and easier to get, a slap in the face would be to make you work another 1 year for a better weapon!
Would you rather go afk in PJ with your 1-2 year old 99 r/e/m or go get new wpn/try new setup, eventually everything will have to go to waste, if you want people that came back for the expansion to stay, making sidegrade/better weapon than relic is the way to go.
Do you really think someone that just come back no matter when they quit would stay long time if they have to farm dynamis for 2-3months, do trial then farm 2-3 months to 99 a wpn and then be able to do w/e new content allow us to upgrade them wpn more ?
How is it a slap in your face that there is better wpn and easier to get, a slap in the face would be to make you work another 1 year for a better weapon!
Would you rather go afk in PJ with your 1-2 year old 99 r/e/m or go get new wpn/try new setup, eventually everything will have to go to waste, if you want people that came back for the expansion to stay, making sidegrade/better weapon than relic is the way to go.
Do you really think someone that just come back no matter when they quit would stay long time if they have to farm dynamis for 2-3months, do trial then farm 2-3 months to 99 a wpn and then be able to do w/e new content allow us to upgrade them wpn more ?
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
But you just can't compare FFXI with other MMO/WoW ._.
You lost me at this. Not comparing FFXI to other MMOs is what left FFXI stagnate for years and years.
Asura.Ccl said: »
How is it a slap in your face that there is better wpn and easier to get, a slap in the face would be to make you work another 1 year for a better weapon!
Both are slap in the face. Unless current R/E/M is required somehow to get new weapon and offering good and easy to obtain alternatives for ppl without R/E/M. I already stated better solution that can make everyone happy, not sure why would anyone still insist R/E/M has to go no matter what.
Asura.Ccl said: »
Would you rather go afk in PJ with your 1-2 year old 99 r/e/m or go get new wpn/try new setup, eventually everything will have to go to waste, if you want people that came back for the expansion to stay, making sidegrade/better weapon than relic is the way to go.
Mythic is newer than relic, Empy is newer than Relic/mythic, they're from different expansion and yet relic is still relevant. Surely they can co-exist.
God, this same thing happened with empyreans, relics got completely outclassed till they got buffed back. If necessary they'll buff again r/e/m, there's no reason at all to complain.
[+]
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Unless current R/E/M is required somehow to get new weapon and offering good and easy to obtain alternatives
Requiring old wpn to get a new one from a new expansion is bad game design if you want people to come back and stay.
As long as good and easy atlernative are as good as relic that work.
Upgrading relic would be boring, aren't you tired to see your exact same weapon since 2006 ?
Quetzalcoatl.Zubis said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
But you just can't compare FFXI with other MMO/WoW ._.
You lost me at this. Not comparing FFXI to other MMOs is what left FFXI stagnate for years and years.
FFXI is being compared to other MMO in every forum for ages, but unless SE actually apply the design(not just the reward system) in other MMO, it's going going to make ppl rage.
You're asking FFXI to apply the reward system in other MMO, when the entire structure/pace/player base mentality is different from other MMO. How is that gonna work well?
Asura.Ccl said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Unless current R/E/M is required somehow to get new weapon and offering good and easy to obtain alternatives
Requiring old wpn to get a new one from a new expansion is bad game design if you want people to come back and stay.
As long as good and easy atlernative are as good as relic that work.
Upgrading relic would be boring, aren't you tired to see your exact same weapon since 2006 ?
Empy worked during Abyssea era, and currently relic is still the best, while empy not obsolete.
Another way is to make new weapons that you have to do SoA content to obtain, and current R/E/M lv 99 owners can use R/E/M to upgrade them into new weapons and get them faster. Similar to relic+2, if you already have +1, you need less forgotten to upgrade, if you upgrade to +2 from NQ, you need more forgotten. So old player with R/E/M grind less(and R/E/M not a total waste, less emotional impact), new player can jump into new content without going back to dyna.
There always many ways to make everyone happy, making all the effort goes to waste just isn't one of them.
I should be used to this by now... I made my relic back in 2007 after working on it for almost 2 years (took almost 5 months just to get right test... I was 1/9 on NM), did all the magian trials pre-nerf (gotta love those 2,000 ws kills), then Empyrean came along and basically ***all over it at that time lol
I remember a long time ago Square-Enix saying that relics were supposed to be extremely rare and didn't expect many people to own them, and seeing a relic back then was a rare sight [insert Back to the Future Television reference here]; of course now with level 99 and an easier now free Dynamis that you can solo farm once a day (instead of every 3 days) so it's not so surprising that so many people these days has one or more relics XD
I realize this game needs new stuff in order to keep people interested... though it would be nice if they kept them competitive with other top weapons in the game, I can only hope they keep true to their word ^..^
I remember a long time ago Square-Enix saying that relics were supposed to be extremely rare and didn't expect many people to own them, and seeing a relic back then was a rare sight [insert Back to the Future Television reference here]; of course now with level 99 and an easier now free Dynamis that you can solo farm once a day (instead of every 3 days) so it's not so surprising that so many people these days has one or more relics XD
I realize this game needs new stuff in order to keep people interested... though it would be nice if they kept them competitive with other top weapons in the game, I can only hope they keep true to their word ^..^
Asura.Ccl said: »
Upgrading relic would be boring, aren't you tired to see your exact same weapon since 2006 ?
[+]
Macoquetza (old)
DMG:58 Delay:200 AGI+8 ≺Element: Water≻+20
"Subtle Blow"+7
Macoquetza (new)
DMG:64 Delay:200 AGI+8 ≺Element: Water≻+20
"Subtle Blow"+7
/goodbye Mandu users!
DMG:58 Delay:200 AGI+8 ≺Element: Water≻+20
"Subtle Blow"+7
Macoquetza (new)
DMG:64 Delay:200 AGI+8 ≺Element: Water≻+20
"Subtle Blow"+7
/goodbye Mandu users!
Apart from stacked mercy stroke is epic..... and that dagger doesnt get mercy stroke.
Edit: seriously though the only people that need to be annoyed are Spharai, Excalibur and Gungnir owners
Edit: seriously though the only people that need to be annoyed are Spharai, Excalibur and Gungnir owners
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Edit: seriously though the only people that need to be annoyed are Spharai, Excalibur and Gungnir owners
Gungnir owners have a whole host of reasons to be annoyed, but that new spear isn't one of them.
[+]
Its not gungnir thats the problem its the job and the communities view of it but thats for another thread not this one
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Edit: seriously though the only people that need to be annoyed are Spharai, Excalibur and Gungnir owners
I'm 2/3 and it doesn't really bother me, because:
1) They're likely to get buffed anyway
2) Neither of those weapons in particular is entirely reliant on base damage for value (Excal has its en-damage, Spharai has +counter). They'll both have uses even if outclassed in other ways.
25,000 Alexandrite into Kenkonken and they release PUP-equippable H2H with +33 base damage over it Q.Q;
Quote:
Its not gungnir thats the problem its the job and the communities view of it but thats for another thread not this one
While the second part of your statement is true, the first is half true. I can think of a bunch of things annoying with Gungnir:
1) Geirskogul has an AGI modifier; DRG has one of the lowest AGI in the game and not much AGI gear either. Annoying that most DDs got a crappy mod for their Relic WS, I guess SE was on some hipster ***and tried giving Relic Weaponskills alternate, nonmainstream mods, but left SAM's on STR because this is Samurai Fantasy XI.
2) While ODT from Annihilator/Yoichinoyumi can proc on Barrage for 11k+, SE won't let Gungnir's OD2.5 proc on Jumps.
3) Shockspikes Aftermath deal 19-23 damage at 99, with a 1-2% proc rate(I've parsed the proc rate on everything from TW to VT).
4) The 17% Defense Down additional effect overwrites Angon's 25% defense down.
Not even asking to make Gungnir on the same level as Ragnarok. Just give it a 30%STR/30%Dex mod or something, let OD2.5 proc on Jumps, either make the DEF down 25% or nerf it down to 10% but let it be a unique def down that stacks with angon; or alternately make Angon a unique buff of 15-20%(nerf it slightly) but let it stack with other def down(overall buff to def down cap reachable by players) and just change the aftermath to make the Shock Spikes 5x more potent and way more accurate with stunning, or make it grant an Excalbur-like effect where during aftermath you have a 10% chance of proccing an Enthunder animation that deals piercing damage equal to 1/4th of your Wyvern's Max HP.
It was not in the initial post and some people in the thread were asking what all was in it. So yes after 9 pages all of this info was not in it. only a piece or 2.
Thats relics for you iirc theres only 2 relic wses that you would actually use and well you should be using stardiver anyway. You dont see ragnarok owners bitching all the time about their ws and the fact legion mobs get crit rate minus.
Geir is fairly useless although it does have SOME use when lowmanning/solo as Geir>Stardiver makes Darkness which produces more damage than using Star>Star. Usually when doing Nyzul, Salvage or Meebles I can do a 1600 Geir into a 2700 Star and a 2700 darkness, or after a star, if i do a souljump that gives me instant 100+ TP i'll close it with a 1600 geir for a 1600 dark which again, does more than 2x star unless I'm fighting fodder with 1300+ att.
I only read the first 5 pages of this thread, so maybe this has already been said but....
MAGES GET SHAFTED ON WEAPONS *** AGAIN...besides smn...(excuse my french)
Really 40 mab? really...... How many times do we have to repeat this same process.... At 75 laevateiin and tupsimati sucked without aftermath(and even with aftermath on tupsi iirc) because of how the hq staffs were calculated. Now here we are 99 and tupsimati still sucks ***, even with aftermath, and laevateiin only surpasses trial weapons when it has aftermath on. And now they release another MAB staff with less MAB then laevateinn 99 and no aftermath...... AJJCFNDHFN.Oawbi>cfSNKAGUYWBY,MXEKLwulaebskAWVNCUAWVBKCU3 W...
It better be augmentable -.-
On another note... Geomancer highest melee skill is club and I wanted to try out a geomancer melee build for when buffing DD pts with my auras with dt- sets etc etc etc. So i was like cool I'll start off with a moepapa mace and then build a Gambate.... OH WAIT! I CAN'T! Oh well geomancer must be on that new high damage club they released right.... nope.... /table flip
Excuse me I'm going let off steam by beating bunnies to a pulp with my useless(but entertaining) claustrum. kthxbai
Edit: Possible Tupsimati/Claustrum updates on page 9 have curbed my rage slightly >.>
MAGES GET SHAFTED ON WEAPONS *** AGAIN...besides smn...(excuse my french)
Really 40 mab? really...... How many times do we have to repeat this same process.... At 75 laevateiin and tupsimati sucked without aftermath(and even with aftermath on tupsi iirc) because of how the hq staffs were calculated. Now here we are 99 and tupsimati still sucks ***, even with aftermath, and laevateiin only surpasses trial weapons when it has aftermath on. And now they release another MAB staff with less MAB then laevateinn 99 and no aftermath...... AJJCFNDHFN.Oawbi>cfSNKAGUYWBY,MXEKLwulaebskAWVNCUAWVBKCU3 W...
It better be augmentable -.-
On another note... Geomancer highest melee skill is club and I wanted to try out a geomancer melee build for when buffing DD pts with my auras with dt- sets etc etc etc. So i was like cool I'll start off with a moepapa mace and then build a Gambate.... OH WAIT! I CAN'T! Oh well geomancer must be on that new high damage club they released right.... nope.... /table flip
Excuse me I'm going let off steam by beating bunnies to a pulp with my useless(but entertaining) claustrum. kthxbai
Edit: Possible Tupsimati/Claustrum updates on page 9 have curbed my rage slightly >.>
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