Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer |
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Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
Odin.Tinyattorney said: » Quick question that I haven't been able to find a quick answer for: Dye augment on tanking/enmity cape? My current augs are HP, Eva/M.Eva, Enmity. Thanks, -TA Tanking/Enmity Cape should be something like this: HP +60, Eva/M.Eva +20, M.Eva +10, Enmity +10, PDT -10. And if you scroll up some i posted absorb/meva set which is pretty close to what youre status alignment set is.
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<set name="TP-PDT">
<main>Epeolatry</main><!-- PDT II -25 --> <sub>Mensch Strap +1</sub><!-- PDT -5 --> <ammo>Staunch Tathlum +1</ammo><!-- DT-3 --> <head>Fu. Bandeau +3</head><!-- PDT -6 --> <neck>Moonlight Necklace</neck> <lear>Hearty Earring</rear> <rear>Odnowa Earring +1</rear> <body>Runeist's Coat +3</body> <hands>Turms Mittens +1</hands> <lring>Moonlight Ring</lring><!-- DT-5 --> <rring>Defending Ring</rring><!-- DT-10 --> <back augment="S79326306474063612583463">Ogma's Cape</back><!-- PDT -10 --> <waist>Flume Belt +1</waist><!-- PDT-4 --> <legs>Eri. Leg Guards +1</legs><!-- PDT-7 --> <feet>Turms Leggings +1</feet> </set> <set name="MDT"><!-- Magic Evasion/Absorb --> <ammo>Staunch Tathlum +1</ammo> <head>Turms Cap +1</head> <neck>Warder's Charm +1</neck> <lear>Sanare Earring</lear> <rear>Eabani Earring</rear> <body>Runeist's Coat +3</body> <hands>Turms Mittens +1</hands> <lring>Moonlight Ring</lring> <rring>Defending Ring</rring> <back augment="S79326306474501612780174">Ogma's Cape</back> <waist>Engraved Belt</waist> <legs>Eri. Leg Guards +1</legs> <feet>Turms Leggings +1</feet> </set> <set name="Resist" baseset="MDT"><!-- Magic Evasion/Status Alignment Resist --> <neck>Moonlight Necklace</neck> <lear>Hearty Earring</lear> <hands>Erilaz Gauntlets +1</hands> <rring>Purity Ring</rring> <legs>Rune. Trousers +3</legs> </set>
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I see a lot of you guys are prioritizing PDT 10% in place of DT 5%.
For a lot of jobs, not just RUN. This makes particularly sense for RUN because Magic damage is hardly ever an issue, you can shell5 yourself in worst case scenario (aside from a couple of rare situations where you might want to avoid that) and 10 is quite a big difference over 5, it allows for much wider flexibility in the other slots, wether you want to focus on hybrid/damage or even more defensive stuff that's not *DT (parrying, status resist, occasionally absorb damage etc). With that premise though there's one thing that remains out and that's Breath Damage. Now I reckon that lately it hasn't been much of an issue, but it used to be a common option on several NMs and Shell neither PDT work on that. So to my eyes, if we're going under another premise of wanting to limit the number of capes you want to make, doesn't DT-5% look like a more solid "generic" option, compared to PDT? Mind me, I don't have an answer and I'm not trying to indoctrinate anyone, I'm still wondering about that myself. Atm I only have two tanking capes and I have Parrying+5 on my "main" one, Status+10 on the alternative one, whereas I put DT-5% on my "DD" cape, which I intend to use for hybrid builds as well. I didn't have the resins to do my DD jobs' capes yet, but I'm leaning towards DT-5 for the same reason (in my DT builds for my DD jobs I'm currently using a DT-4% cape, so being able to use my "regular" ambuscade cape with 5DT looks like a solid option and a nice buff) Ragnarok.Martel said: » This is far from final, and not all forms of resist+ have been tested in detail yet. But it's something to consider when deciding on your cape augments. That resist+10 might actually only be resist+5 on anything that matters. Because 5% still looks very good to me if you're going for an alternative resist-focused build, or am I missing something? On a side note, how are you people handling your precast and enmity sets? I recently updated them so that my HP doesn't go too much down compared to my tanking HP and I also tried to stick as much DT as possible. My current logic for sets is the following: (it's actually more complex but I'm simplifying things) Precast set => use it to precast magic, think it's like ~70%FC, I try to keep HP close to tanking HP, there's some DT but not much, think around 22% iir? Midcast set => Precast stays equipped a nanosecond, midcast stay equipped when casting the spell until the end so it's more likely to get "caught" by a hit or TP move during this state compared to the precast one. I've put a lot of DT in here (very close to 50%), some FC when possible to help with recast and I also tried to keep HP as close as possible to the tank one. Enmity set => I use it mostly for JAs that matter. Like precast it's hard to be caught in this state, but I tried to stick as much DT as possible (around 25% I think?), focus on HP as well blahblah. Think, with some variation, I use this set to midcast Flash, Foil, Jettatura, Geist Wall and Blank Gaze as well. Asura.Sechs said: » I see a lot of you guys are prioritizing PDT 10% in place of DT 5%. For a lot of jobs, not just RUN. This makes particularly sense for RUN because Magic damage is hardly ever an issue, you can shell5 yourself in worst case scenario (aside from a couple of rare situations where you might want to avoid that) and 10 is quite a big difference over 5, it allows for much wider flexibility in the other slots, wether you want to focus on hybrid/damage or even more defensive stuff that's not *DT (parrying, status resist, occasionally absorb damage etc). With that premise though there's one thing that remains out and that's Breath Damage. Now I reckon that lately it hasn't been much of an issue, but it used to be a common option on several NMs and Shell neither PDT work on that. So to my eyes, if we're going under another premise of wanting to limit the number of capes you want to make, doesn't DT-5% look like a more solid "generic" option, compared to PDT? Mind me, I don't have an answer and I'm not trying to indoctrinate anyone, I'm still wondering about that myself. Atm I only have two tanking capes and I have Parrying+5 on my "main" one, Status+10 on the alternative one, whereas I put DT-5% on my "DD" cape, which I intend to use for hybrid builds as well. I didn't have the resins to do my DD jobs' capes yet, but I'm leaning towards DT-5 for the same reason (in my DT builds for my DD jobs I'm currently using a DT-4% cape, so being able to use my "regular" ambuscade cape with 5DT looks like a solid option and a nice buff) Not a horrible idea, I find some people that aren't comfortable with gearswap/ashitacast though and still use single tanking sets, which is where I think PDT -10 has it's biggest use, or if you want to build tp and not swap weapons/grips in your tank sets. Also you can still build sets to be near cap DT if not capped without a cape. Refined Grip +1, Staunch Tathlum +1, Loricate +1, Ashera Harness/Relic +3 Body, Moonlight/Defending Ring, 4/5 Herc Set with DT- which i'm guessing a set like that would still put you around ~2700HP at the cost of parry/meva. Also, if you want to save an Ogma's cape throw crystals at Adoulin cape for the DT-5. Asura.Sechs said: » So to my eyes, if we're going under another premise of wanting to limit the number of capes you want to make, doesn't DT-5% look like a more solid "generic" option, compared to PDT? Eh, considering the current rarity of breath or other non-physical/magical damage, and the ease of handling magic damage, I don't think cape DT- is as big of a priority for RUN. If the overall meta changes and breath/non-elemental stuff becomes a regular threat, you have options at that point. Make a new cape, use a needle, etc. If it's just a weird niche or one-time situation (say, one particular NM or a month of Ambuscade), nothing is stopping you from just using one of the existing non-Ogma DT-5%+ capes for that niche use. I still have a DT-5%/PDT-3% Evasionist's that is now gathering dust, Moonbeam/Moonlight exist, etc. RUN very frequently benefits a ton from a huge extra chunk of PDT since it really frees up slots for Meva/resistance, Turms hands/feet, melee stats in a hybrid build, etc. Personally, I find the PDT useful way more often than I run into "OMG I need to mitigate Breath Damage" situations. Quote: Atm I only have two tanking capes and I have Parrying+5 on my "main" one, Status+10 on the alternative one, whereas I put DT-5% on my "DD" cape, which I intend to use for hybrid builds as well. I find Parry to be the more niche stat, because Battuta isn't always up. When it is, your Parry rate is already so strong that you're effectively invincible anyway to a mob relying on parry-able attacks, even without a small bit more from cape augment. When you don't have Battuta up, 5 more Parry isn't enough to make me comfortable with such risk-taking and I'd rather have more consistent damage mitigation in that situtation. Quote: I didn't have the resins to do my DD jobs' capes yet, but I'm leaning towards DT-5 for the same reason (in my DT builds for my DD jobs I'm currently using a DT-4% cape, so being able to use my "regular" ambuscade cape with 5DT looks like a solid option and a nice buff) I see your logic there for most non-tank DDs, but we're kinda in the RUN forum here ;P Asura.Sechs said: » Ragnarok.Martel said: » This is far from final, and not all forms of resist+ have been tested in detail yet. But it's something to consider when deciding on your cape augments. That resist+10 might actually only be resist+5 on anything that matters. Because 5% still looks very good to me if you're going for an alternative resist-focused build, or am I missing something? On a side note, how are you people handling your precast and enmity sets? I recently updated them so that my HP doesn't go too much down compared to my tanking HP and I also tried to stick as much DT as possible. My current logic for sets is the following: (it's actually more complex but I'm simplifying things) Precast set => use it to precast magic, think it's like ~70%FC, I try to keep HP close to tanking HP, there's some DT but not much, think around 22% iir? Midcast set => Precast stays equipped a nanosecond, midcast stay equipped when casting the spell until the end so it's more likely to get "caught" by a hit or TP move during this state compared to the precast one. I've put a lot of DT in here (very close to 50%), some FC when possible to help with recast and I also tried to keep HP as close as possible to the tank one. Enmity set => I use it mostly for JAs that matter. Like precast it's hard to be caught in this state, but I tried to stick as much DT as possible (around 25% I think?), focus on HP as well blahblah. Think, with some variation, I use this set to midcast Flash, Foil, Jettatura, Geist Wall and Blank Gaze as well. Precast: 63% without weapon, 70% with weapon swap, and then relic legs for Enhancing precast ItemSet 355623 Edit: This is ~3k HP, and can still be better with things such as Orunmilla's, etc. Also, Jacket Path D, Feet Path D Leviathan.Kingkitt said: » Also you can still build sets to be near cap DT if not capped without a cape. But it's pretty hard when you start factoring Turms hands and Turms feet, which have no DT at all. They kinda force you to use a DT body in place of AF1+3 body for instance. (Keep in mind in the long term our "target" body will likely become AF3+3 body, which will likely have no DT on it) With DT on the cape you can probably reach capped DT even without having DT on the body, hands and feet slots. Quote: Also, if you want to save an Ogma's cape throw crystals at Adoulin cape for the DT-5. I used to consider it a very nice option (it's 5DT + 3PDT) but now that you can stick 10PDT or 5DT on Ogma's cape, that's definitely the best option even when you're not engaged since you can ALSO stick other stats on it (HP, Meva, Enmity, whatever. You name it, you have it!) Leviathan.Kingkitt said: » Precast: 63% without weapon, 70% with weapon swap, and then relic legs for Enhancing precast ItemSet 355623 Edit: This is ~3k HP, and can still be better with things such as Orunmilla's, etc. Also, Jacket Path D, Feet Path D That's incredibly nice! On the other hand though ~35 mils for a body you're gonna use exclusively on Precast sounds like a lot of gil. I mean for people who ran out of stuff to buy sure, but when you have a neverending list of higher priority items that you still need to get I find it hard to justify 35 mils just for that. But still thanks for reminding me it exists and making me feel bad about it! XD Do you have 3K HP in your regular tanking set as well? I think I'm down to 2850 or something. Couldn't tell you the exact numbers of my tanking/precast set, but off the top of my head I want to say that both sets are right around the 2900~3k range. But even without HQ body, I'd say NQ is next best option just because of the HP. Other options would be Dread Jupon, or augmented Herc body. My enmity set isn't as nice in terms of HP, but i want to say it sits right around ~2600
I do have Dread jupon and I also have a Taeon body with overall 9% FC but both have ***HP.
Altough in my personal case it's not really that much of an issue because my FC set already has pretty much the same amount of HP I have in my tanking set. My only two sets that have ***HP atm are my enhaskill set and my Phalanx set. Tried to improve them as much as possible but it's hard to strike a balance between DT in the few free slots you have or HP. Not much you can do about it. Do you guys use Deacon Sword for Phalanx? With a toggle maybe. Asura.Sechs said: » I do have Dread jupon and I also have a Taeon body with overall 9% FC but both have ***HP. Altough in my personal case it's not really that much of an issue because my FC set already has pretty much the same amount of HP I have in my tanking set. My only two sets that have ***HP atm are my enhaskill set and my Phalanx set. Tried to improve them as much as possible but it's hard to strike a balance between DT in the few free slots you have or HP. Not much you can do about it. Do you guys use Deacon Sword for Phalanx? With a toggle maybe. I have a toggle that enables weapons swaps. Precast i use zulq with fc +7 augment, phalanx is deacon, meva/resist sets is aettier/irenic +1 Don't you find it annoying when you swap between 1h weapons and 2h weapons?
Even if you use the custom-priority system (which you cannot use for augmented items anyway) sometimes it doesn't work, it's a bit clunky. Normally I try to avoid it as much as possible... Asura.Sechs said: » Don't you find it annoying when you swap between 1h weapons and 2h weapons? Even if you use the custom-priority system (which you cannot use for augmented items anyway) sometimes it doesn't work, it's a bit clunky. Normally I try to avoid it as much as possible... I only ever do full swaps when tanking and my epeo/mensch +1 are default items when engaged so I'll always go back to those after cast/action. I also use ashita, and I've never had problems swapping Guess it must be a Gearswap issue then.
Used to have this issue on my mage jobs, despite using the priority system (can tell Gearswap which slot to equip first) sometimes when swapping between 1h and doing back to 2h, the grip would not equip. Sometimes with an error, sometimes without. Also, as I mentioned before, you cannot use the priority system with augmented items alas. I dunno, it was very annoying despite not happening all of the times, so I kinda grew the habit of trying to avoid that as much as possible.
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Legs are ok for Hybrid and really nice for precast.
Body is very good for Hybrid if you lack Ashera Harness, and even then it still has its pros. Head can be ok with Hybrid builds to help mantain a certain x-hit setup. The whole set is nice for, say, a WS like Shockwave if you want to focus on the accuracy of the sleep effect rather than the damage.
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Asura.Sechs said: » Ragnarok.Martel said: » This is far from final, and not all forms of resist+ have been tested in detail yet. But it's something to consider when deciding on your cape augments. That resist+10 might actually only be resist+5 on anything that matters. Because 5% still looks very good to me if you're going for an alternative resist-focused build, or am I missing something? To quote BGwiki, BGwiki said: In general, +2 Magic Evasion is assumed to give +1% Resist rate below a 50% resist rate, and +2% Resist rate above a 50% resist rate. This is why there is a large difference between having "almost enough" resist gear to resist a monster reliably, and having "enough." I suppose you could say that the +5% has a certain reliability to it, as it doesn't vary. You'll always get something outta it. But the meva is going to be more potent unless you're floored. The difficulty there is knowing if you're floored or not. ...and meva works on magic damage as well. Granted that tipically isn't really a threat for a RUN.
So from this a Meva earring will likely prove better than Hearty Earring (if you guys can confirm that the % is always halved on NMs) and Yamarang would be better than Staunch Tathlum to name another example. I'm a bit surprised, but I guess that's how it is. Have you guys intention to try to see if there is a "cap" on the maximum resist % you can get from Meva alone? If there is a cap and it's low enough, then having "Resist %" on a separate term (assuming it would work above such cap) could be interesting. Basic meva/macc resist floors/caps were done a long time ago. It's in terms of full land rate and it's 5% and 95%.
But since meva/macc resists are in terms of full land rate that means even at capped meva anything with a half resist will only fully resist ~90% of the time (actually 90.25%) and if it has 1/4th resist will only fully resist 85.7375% of the time and things that go even lower (like say most notably stun) are suspected to have many resist states but it's kind of hard to prove without clearly defined potencies/durations. So not only can you get higher overall resist rates using resist gear but you can achieve higher resist thru resist gear alone then you might achieve from meva alone. As far as if meva is useful... it's not just floors you gotta worry about but caps as well. Remember that going from floored to capped is only 135 macc/meva. You can literally go from below the floor to overcapped with a single buff or debuff. Given the wildly differing stats of different mobs and buff/debuff situations it's going to be exceedingly hard without solid hit rate testing on them (which likely wont be done with the speed at which they release new stuff) to tell if you if that little bit of meva is working each time but it's pretty much guaranteed if you stick to just one over the other it will not be working some of the time I'm pretty sure it's 95%. It's the same thing as how even when you've got floored macc vs a target, you'll still land 5% of the time. Stuff's been commonly known for years. Although people are typically more interested in the magic hit rate cap as opposed to the floor.(said floor would be the resist rate cap. The caster and target are just flipped)
Another thing to consider is that resist all+ doesn't work on all status effects. It doesn't appear to work on things like acc/atk/def- or str/def/etc-. There may well be other things it doesn't apply to as well.(Doom? I really doubt it works on doom. And I know it doesn't work on Death, but that's arguably not a status effect at all) Resist All basically gives you every Resist trait, so it only works on debuffs that have corresponding Resist traits. Keep in mind that a couple traits play double duty, though; for example, Resist Slow applies to both slow and addle.
So, Resist All doesn't work on: Doom Death Terror Charm Curse Doom Bio Dia Attribute down Attack/Accuracy/Magic Attack/Magic Accuracy/Defense/Magic Defense/Evasion/Magic Evasion down Max HP/MP/TP down Dispel Muddle Encumbrance Weakness Obliviscence Asura.Geriond said: » Terror Terror is the same as Petrify. If you are terrored then petrify will have no effect and if your petrified then terror will overwrite it. There a also multiple forms of Terror with Dragon Terror acting differently then regular Terror from things like Faze and Jettataru. Also Resist-All doesn't work on stun. Asura.Saevel said: » Asura.Geriond said: » Terror Terror is the same as Petrify. If you are terrored then petrify will have no effect and if your petrified then terror will overwrite it. There a also multiple forms of Terror with Dragon Terror acting differently then regular Terror from things like Faze and Jettataru. Also Resist-All doesn't work on stun. Just to reconfirm, I went out and took 15 Jettaturas from non-NM Hippogryphs with +31 Resist All. Zero Resist!s.
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Similarly you will get no effect from stun while petrified but they are obviously completely different resists. I question the stun resist all thing given the numbers we've gotten and the fact it's grouped together with the others that do in that it gets the Resist message! And is part of the immunobreak/building resistance update
So does this mean Hearty Earring (and by extension Erilaz Gauntlets) isn't worth keeping around?
Against fodder (Let's say CL 125 or lower) where your gear options are more open is one thing... but the higher up the chain you go, this seems to be leaning more towards just focus on physical + magical defense and let your backline worry about curing your debuffs. Edit PS/Sidenote: I know this isn't RUN-specific and a bit off topic, but I've been peeking at the Arke set (iLv. 119 Barone Corazza Set: WAR/PLD/DRG) since the Resist Testing thread started. Seemed like a nice hybrid set at the time at least. NQ 5/5 gives DT-40 and Resist All+25% (but 0 MEva in exchange). On paper it seems like a nice investment for kicks and giggles. Thoughts? Sylph.Brahmsz said: » Against fodder (Let's say CL 125 or lower) where your gear options are more open is one thing... but the higher up the chain you go, this seems to be leaning more towards just focus on physical + magical defense and let your backline worry about curing your debuffs. No, just no, RUN's are not PLDs. RUN gets HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE amounts of natural MEVD along with Runes providing even more MEVD and it's gear having even more on top of that. Just by myself with no other buffs I can get over 400 resist to a single element, meaning over 400 EVD added to what I already have. On T4's I often evade or outright resist most of their debuffs. Asura.Geriond said: » They share the same debuff slot, but they do not share the same resists. Resist Petrify does not work on Terror (nor vice versa), nor does Resist All. Just to reconfirm, I went out and took 15 Jettaturas from non-NM Hippogryphs with +31 Resist All. Zero Resist!s. Great, can we get that added to the wiki page and on the resist thread. Asura.Saevel said: » No, just no, RUN's are not PLDs. Asura.Saevel said: » I'm well aware of RUN's Status resists via Magic Evasion. That was not my question before you decided to pounce on my question and attempt to belittle me. Anyways... given that Resist [Trait]+ is halved, there seems far less priority on stacking "Resist All" gear. Therefore, it would stand to reason to focus on PDT/MDT/DT- gear. But please, keep wasting time and effort "whooshing" at me. Good day sir. |
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