IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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 Fenrir.Idevlboy
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By Fenrir.Idevlboy 2018-05-21 10:22:56
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
Nothing too crazy to report. We started our MNK Aeonic run earlier than expected.
We decided not to do "MNK only" DPS because:
1) It'd be way too boring for those not on MNK, though we didn't magic burst or anything crazy like that.
2) It allowed us to see how MNK compared to other DDs in certain fights.

Few points of correction/clarification:
- we didnt bring other DDs but we didn’t prevent support from adding DPS just like we would do with any other melee setup. Wanted things to be consistent so cor was melee and WS as standard and brd was melee as well because why not.
- we ran with 9 total pld, geo, rdm, brd, cor, whm, mnk x3
- cleared Zi’tah in 50min. Our total time was slightly extended because our pld was popping but was on his first aeonic clear so he had to run back to the NPC to make pops between each tier of mobs.
- same deal in sky some slight delay between tiers to build pops. Cleared T1-3, AAs, kirin in approx 1hr and 10min. We didn’t finish the zone because it was late and people needed to head out.

Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
*The Godhands user was charmed by Vir'ava and killed at least one person. Maybe more. I don't know if the parser counted damage to the players. :)

That was me! And I’ll gladly take all the free damage I can get off the other mnks and the cor!!
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2018-05-21 12:52:20
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What's the overall feel compare to other melees?

#1 So awesome I will keep doing it everyday

#2 It's like sex. Still good even when it's bad.

#3 Average. My [insert current wagon] could do it better.

#4 It's for giggles and whatever. It's fun. The Cor is leading the chart but who cares?

#5 Let me use my melee Bard next time!!!
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-05-21 13:01:39
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Mostly #5. A little bit of #4.

It was for giggles. An average of 14k weapon skill damage is really sad given the buffs used and the expense of the gear employed.

After this set is done, I believe we're doing an Aeonic run with a focus on melee WHMs, BRDs and RDMs.
 Fenrir.Idevlboy
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By Fenrir.Idevlboy 2018-05-21 13:13:48
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I agree. I would put it between your 3-5 ratings. Every bandwagon version could do it better with far less investment. But it’s still fun and it beats mindlessly button mashing volt strike for 2 hours.

Feels good to know that it can be done with monks even if it takes more investment to make it happen.

We saw a few spike WS in the upper 20k range but not enough to be mind blowing.

HELMs will be the real test. We weren’t expecting many problems up until that point. Maybe WoC could be problemaic because the slower dmg leaves us open to more 1hrs but we will see.
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By pchan 2018-05-21 13:22:44
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I think the feeling is about the same with other DDs, you feel gimp b/c you are not on SMN. The game is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE right now.
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 Fenrir.Idevlboy
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By Fenrir.Idevlboy 2018-05-21 13:49:48
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Nah we have done Aeonics every which way. Mage style when they first came out, melee zerg with Sam and war, rng style, and conduit.

A true melee zerg with top tier DDs shreds these mobs just as badly as smns do but it takes people being dedicated enough to build and gear the jobs. With conduit they just stand there is sparks gear and still manage to win. (Ok this is a slight over exaggeration but not really by that much)

Using Mnks is significantly slower and more costly than the other options we have used. It’s just fun to do something different.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-05-21 13:55:01
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Fenrir.Idevlboy said: »
A true melee zerg with top tier DDs shreds these mobs just as badly as smns do
please stop spreading this misinformation, just because you can win reliably with melee doesn't mean they 'shred these mobs just as badly as smns do'

the difference is gigantic and we really do not need to downplay it
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-05-21 13:59:57
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I mean like you can't even brew down reisen helms as fast as conduits, so. yeah.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-05-21 14:36:10
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It is obviously true that SMN is far less complicated and far more powerful than almost every other DPS in every situation.
It is no more expensive, and is, in my opinion, much less expensive, than other DDs for much greater results. SMN requires one set vs the minimum of a TP and WS set, for example.

A comparison of SMN to MNK in terms of DPS is staggering.
A comparison of SMN to a WAR with an excellent Mighty Strikes set is less staggering, but, no argument, the SMN is still ahead.

But for those comparing MNK to other jobs and concluding MNK is OK, the disparity seen there and between a match-up of SP WAR vs SP SMN is about the same.

For now, let's leave SMN out of this.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-05-21 14:38:24
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
But for those comparing MNK to other jobs and concluding MNK is OK, the disparity seen there and between a match-up of SP WAR vs SP SMN is about the same.

Can you substantiate this? You're using 'about' extremely generously at best, and I'd be more inclined to call it straight up lying.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-05-21 14:51:53
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Sure, MNK WS average was 14k. That average certainly isn't going to rise as we move up the ilvl ladder. I don't think it is outlandish to state "real" DDs would be doing at least 21k average (an increase of 33%). Probably closer to 30-40k, honestly...

So then there are MS WARs doing 50-99k each Resolution. Are they slower than SMNs? Sure, a little. Do they do less than SMNs? Certainly some SMNs squeak by doing 30k per VS, but most are hitting 70-99k consistently. That's a difference of roughly the same 33%.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-05-21 14:53:37
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
50-99k each Resolution.
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
most are hitting 70-99k consistently.

Not only are we ignoring that volt strike is like 1.6 secs while reso is minimum 4-5 on average, we're only looking at damage per WS and using wide ranges like that with no supporting math?

Jesus christ, the answer you were looking for was 'No, I can't substantiate it.'
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-05-21 14:57:23
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Some trip up and are slower because of JA lock out. The question about how to not fat finger SMN has been asked more than once in the SMN thread.
It's fine. You hate SMN. This isn't the "I hate SMN thread." At least anyone saying they hate MNK is on-topic.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-05-21 15:00:22
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I think SMN is overpowered, I don't hate it. I don't hate MNK either.

I'm calling you out on your ***, because you're using a completely ridiculous and unsubstantiated comparison to get back to your 'MNK is too weak' narrative.

MNK might need buffs, it might not, but to pretend MNK is anywhere near as far behind other DPS as they are behind SMN is absurd. WAR is less than 50% of SMN's damage. I still have yet to see a single successful Schah zerg without SMNs, while SMNs are carrying a half dozen leeches.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-05-21 15:15:33
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It is not ridiculous. You like to throw these words around to give your opinions weight, I know.
If an individual wants to invest in a DPS job, their dollars will do better on any other job than MNK. You feel SMN is overpowered. I feel MNK is underpowered. That is what we should be discussing in this thread.

Because I'm so generous, let's use your substantiated (where?) number of less than 50%... A THF without rolls was 3x the DPS on Kirin than any of the MNKs. That one THF did half the DPS of the fight. If we had a second THF, in theory, we could have carried two leaches in the open spots. A MS WAR would have done even better.
 Asura.Cair
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By Asura.Cair 2018-05-21 15:17:06
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I was told that I can request a topicban for Cherrywine if he continues to be non-constructive in this thread. Can we do that?

Idk what mods are active any more.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-05-21 15:18:42
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Asura.Cair said: »
I was told that I can request a topicban for Cherrywine if he continues to be non-constructive in this thread. Can we do that?

Idk what mods are active any more.

Yawn.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-05-21 15:18:52
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Parses aren't meaningful, because they don't represent all available information. Case in point:
https://youtu.be/l0udClEjcds?t=125


Relative to Phuoc's SMN, Primex's WAR did 23.7% as much damage. Does that mean we can claim SMN does 4x as much as WAR..? No, it doesn't. Even considering that his WS usage was visibly correct in the video and it's someone who was almost certainly geared properly, something as simple as unlucky misses could have skewed that parse.
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 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2018-05-21 15:44:09
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I still have yet to see a single successful Schah zerg without SMNs, while SMNs are carrying a half dozen leeches.
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
 Asura.Cair
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By Asura.Cair 2018-05-21 15:47:42
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Schah can be killed in under a minute using Summoners and leeches, but compositions using melee don't have the same leeway. This is due to the nature of Summoner's damage output and highlights that fact that comparing numbers between Astral Conduit damage and melee zerg damage is pretty immaterial.

Edit: This is worded a bit poorly. There's still not a single (known?, posted?) successful melee zerg of Schah in under a minute. It's not necessarily impossible but it's not easy (or worthwhile really..) by any means.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2018-05-21 15:52:31
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Ok thanks for cairifying, was gonna say we melee'd Schah plenty of times. Yeah definitely not much room for leeway or ***.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-05-21 16:49:43
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
50-99k each Resolution.
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
most are hitting 70-99k consistently.

Not only are we ignoring that volt strike is like 1.6 secs while reso is minimum 4-5 on average, we're only looking at damage per WS and using wide ranges like that with no supporting math?

Jesus christ, the answer you were looking for was 'No, I can't substantiate it.'

Wait what .... are people seriously trying to say any other job can do what SMN does in the same period of time? MS zerg WAR is pretty powerful but it doesn't touch what AC SMN is gonna do in those 30s.
 Sylph.Elgorian
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By Sylph.Elgorian 2018-05-21 23:36:35
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What are good TP earrings now? I was looking at:

Mache Earring +1 and Sherida Earring

or is Mache Earring +1 x2 better?

Or is Mache Earring +1 worth at all?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-05-21 23:56:44
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You can get away with 1 MA+ piece.

But of all the available earrings, each one is very insignificantly better than the others.

Being Cessance, Telos, Mache+1, Dedition they're all good choices

Sherida definitely use.
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 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2018-05-22 00:44:53
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They are going to fix MNK next expansion! Be patient!
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By fonewear 2018-05-25 13:47:44
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Bahamut.Negan said: »
They are going to fix MNK next expansion! Be patient!

Definitely they are going to make just really really big H2H weapons larger than the aeonic. So powerful the new H2H are they break the time/space continuum. But only when the boost effect wears off !

When you land the weaponskill you enter a new dimension the monk dimension !

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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-05-25 15:53:51
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fonewear said: »
Definitely they are going to make just really really big H2H weapons larger than the aeonic. So powerful the new H2H are they break the time/space continuum. But only when the boost effect* wears off !

*Boost effect will be changed as follows in the accompanying version update:
Duration of Boost ability will be adjusted to the formula 8760 hours + [H2H weapon delay] + (0.85 * combined number for all Monks in current alliance of all Boost macro lines using /say /party /linkshell /shout or /yell), timer starting upon the time at least 18 Monks in alliance use the Chi Blast job ability simultaneously.

Known issues:
The issue whereby Monk's Chi Blast job ability unequips the current weapon and causes the player's job to change to Summoner.
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 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2018-05-25 15:54:57
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
*Boost effect will be changed as follows in the accompanying version update:
Duration of Boost ability will be adjusted to the formula 8760 hours + [H2H weapon delay] + (0.85 * combined number for all Monks in current alliance of all Boost macro lines using /say /party /linkshell /shout or /yell), timer starting upon the time at least 18 Monks in alliance use the Chi Blast job ability simultaneously.

Known issues:
The issue whereby Monk's Chi Blast job ability unequips the current weapon and causes the player's job to change to Summoner.
LOL!
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By dustinfoley 2018-05-31 12:30:20
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Does anyone have an updated did spreadsheet with current gear. The one I found is pre rov. And back with old 95,% cap. I made a modified one myself but would love to check my math
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By fonewear 2018-05-31 12:42:42
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dustinfoley said: »
Does anyone have an updated did spreadsheet with current gear. The one I found is pre rov. And back with old 95,% cap. I made a modified one myself but would love to check my math

According to my spreadsheet...there is a 3.1415926535897932384626433% chance monk is fixed by SE.
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