IiPunch - Monk Guide

I'm not trivializing all content to that point, and to be sure that quote of mine isn't used out of place, I was specifically talking about less demanding Geas Fete mobs (I'm thinking like: Zi'tah, T1-T3 Ru'Aun, T1-T2 Reisenjima).

While this content doesn't require top tier players, any player filling a healer role on this kind of stuff should be more than capable of hitting Curaga macros quickly enough to survive these fights without requiring Subtle Blow +75 melees to reduce TP feed.

I am also not saying there's anything WRONG with using an easier to manage strategy. For groups without the gear/skill to melee down these monsters, there's no shame at all in using a more manageable nuke/ranged/pet/etc. setup. That seems like a more reasonable option to me than "let's still try to melee this thing down that keeps killing us, but with MNKs instead of other melee jobs". (and hell, that seems more restrictive anyway for a less experienced group - you're going to make ALL of your DDs gear/level MNK just to cover for issues like WHMs who can't curaga and frontline players who can't use DT gear? Unless it just so happens that all of your DDs do have semi-decent MNKs and there's no way you can put together some sort of easier non-melee setup with these players... but that kinda seems like a stretch.)

I do see what you mean about looking at balance from the perspective of MNK potentially being useful for harder content down the road... but again, that's more of a theoretical argument about MMO design than one that makes a bit of difference to anyone actually playing FFXI. Both in 2018, and highly likely beyond. With the skeleton dev crew the game has, and what they've shown us over the past year and a half, I'm rather skeptical that we will ever really see that kind of new content in FFXI where you might be correct that MNK as designed would have some good potential.

Best case, Ascetic's Fury/ Shijin Spiral/ Final Heaven could be used to open for Leaden Salute to make Gravitation in Dynamis... But Darkness is better and BLU brings so much more to the table, MNK is a silly consideration.

Yep

Doing what? Talking about KA shoes? Yep we're totally doing that again.

DUNE BOOTS. NO, SUNE-ATE.

I will agree the crew is ***, but I don't think balancing based on statistics instead of gameplay is necessarily problematic. It created the environment we have now, where jobs are varied enough that different ones will excel for each difficult fight created. They almost certainly aren't picturing the correct jobs for every ambuscade, master trial, T4 that they make. They've made enough arbitrary variety and balance that they settle into their niches. That's not a bad thing.

Ambu changes mobs every month therefore new content in the mind of SE. Don't worry though they are hard at work on Dynamis D zones just give them like 3 months to finish the new...I mean recycled content.

So we're down to

"MNK is really good at content that doesn't exist yet"

as the only valid argument remaining.

There has yet to be a single situation made would warrant asking someone to go on MNK if they had NIN / THF / DNC / BLU available. This isn't even about top DPS, these are the B string DD's that are brought in when utility is needed over raw killing power. If someone can't even be competitive with the B string why the hell are we insisting they deserve to be on the team? Are we really suggesting MNK is the waterboy or the team mascot now.

Man, I got all excited thinking they might have ninja-fixed MNK this update.

Nope. It's Kick Attacks discussion v.2983674933, and MNK is useless vs MNK used to be great so it's viable for new players.

/sigh

Happy Vana'diel Day!

To fix monk, SE should change boost ability to job trait making sure all mnk will use it every 10-15 seconds.

H2H just needs a slight boost in WS damage. That's really it. Being middle of the pack damage wise with high survivability would make it good enough.

I see what you did there.

Seriously though, what is this mythical current content people are doing now where MNK is really not "good enough", outside of challenging Aeonic NMs?

It is frequently one of the handful of better melee options for Ambuscade, where the event changes monthly - at worst, MNK has probably seen above average usefulness in Ambu over the past year relative to other jobs.

It's fine for Dyna(D) farming and midbosses (I don't think most people really focus their Dyna effort on zone bosses, do they?), as is any other melee DD.

It's fine for Omen and easier Geas Fete stuff if you're using melees in the first place, as is any other melee DD.

OK, so you might not want to replace your WARs and DRKs with a MNK in a melee strat on T4 Reisenjima NMs (assuming you're doing melee in the first place and not relying on the "optimal" efficiency strat of a SMN burn). Not that big of a deal to me that MNK isn't particularly great on that handful of NMs.

This is what I think most of us are wondering, at least I am. Fully buffed Monk is seriously not bad at all, just the WS's they have aren't the best and do need "a slight boost" in the end I play what I want and excel at it and I think most of the community should do the same and give it a rest.

It is the wrong question to ask.
Every time we enter our Mog House or talk to a Nomad Moogle, we are presented a choice. In that menu, every job is competing for our use, resources, time and inventory space. Under what circumstance do you want to bring the worst choice? It is the worst choice, right now.

MNK wasn't always the worst choice. It may not be the worst choice in the future.
Below is a quick and dirty history of MNK from Salvage forward:

Salvage (December 2006):
MNK was a great pick because it didn't need weapons at the start to do well at clearing the first floor(s), freeing up cells for other party members. Without armor for DEF (which was much less useful back then anyway), its innate higher HP was a boon. Drinking regen juice was a thing.
It was the only job able to cap equipment haste. Hasso had just been introduced two months before.

Abyssea (June 2010):
It was at this time H2H weapon skills were most competitive to those of other jobs. Atmas allowed players to enhance their strengths, pushing those jobs with critical hit weapon skills to the forefront of popularity. Cleaving and brewing via magical weapon skills was also hot.
MNK had all of these capabilities.
But, also keep in mind, other jobs were enjoying comparable time in the spot light. Pet jobs had indestructible pets. BLU shone as an exceptional cleaver. Pairs of WHMs and WARs were selling spots in XP alliances.

Delve (March 2013):
MNK benefited from the introduction of Oatixur as the first powerful weapon dropped from the first zone boss. It became the gateway to consistent, repeated wins and progress into new zones.
Had a different weapon been amongst the first rewards, history may have played out very differently.
That said, ilvl was just beginning, so MNK's inherent strengths of higher HP and capping equipment haste were still unique considerations. Formless Strikes was also an easy answer to several gimmicks.

Weapon Skill Adjustments (June 2014):
Most TP Bonus effects for H2H weapon skills are bad, so even though some were boosted, the most important one to MNK's long-term relevance, Victory Smite, was left unchanged. In contrast, high-end weapon skills of all other classes were dramatically improved. MNK lost big.

Mighty Guard became a thing (September 2015):
And gear progression, in general, of many jobs had edged out the uniqueness of high HP, capped equipment haste and hybrid set options. MNK has no AOE offensive job abilities, and so it continued to lose out to jobs that synergized and played nicer together.

August Downdate (August 2017):
MNK got a Boost.

I would offer the correction that many melee were capping equipment haste in the Abyssea era forward thanks to staples like Goading Belt or Zelus Tiara.

I appreciate the correction!

Huh... it's one of the worst with the exception of the capped damage month.


There is *zero* reason to take one instead of a different job. When doing content, if the choice is Jimmy on MNK and Fred on WAR/DRK/DRG/SAM/BLU/NIN/DNC/THF, then Jimmy is going to be told to go on GEO/COR/BRD/WHM and Fred will go one of those above mentioned jobs.

Taking a MNK is functionally the same as having a Staff DRG, a Dagger Ninja, an Archery SAM, a Club BLU, or a Scythe WAR. Sure those options are "good enough" to clear content, yet outside of screwing off on a low population server, why on earth would you do this. No PUG is going to invite the MNK and any friends that take a MNK are doing it purely out of pity and kindness.

Guess being a charity case is "good enough" for MNK.

That's a little hyperbolic.

It's not detrimental to take a monk just a /little/ slower.

We're talking seconds, to a small amount of minutes extra. hardly noticeable unless you're barely getting the wins in time. And if that's the case, monk certainly isn't your problem.

Could it be better, yeah, obviously. Is it -that- bad, no.

Some people can't see the forest from the trees.

Number crunching has its limits. That is why engineers use a Safety Factor.

you say number crunching as if anyone has any real numbers posted after the update. i’d estimate it to be slightly worse than dragoon in terms of damage if the fight is short enough to have impetus up full time

Can't argue with that =)

This was posted on February 1st of this year.
I believe the upper right screen showcases a PLD.
The lower right screen is clearly a NIN, and had it used Aeonic and multi-stepped, it would have had a much faster clear time. Or, at least, used Blade: Ten...
Upper left is likely a RUN.
Bottom left, the slowest finisher, is a MNK.

To be fair, we can't see the gear used, but some statistics are shared.

Dat TP return doe :O

Well, I meant, for example, the multi-attack in each build. We can guess at the sets from the information in the borders.

Clearly the Top Left is the monk with Dat mod.

Ok, while thats interesting, if they hadn't used a tank and let the mnk use counters, it may very well have won the race.

And even losing, it's not DRAMATICALLY deal breakingly behind.

Was only 1 second behind the nin

It lost to a Greatsword DD PLD/SAM.

The NIN was under-utilized. Blade: Ten to Blade: Metsu would have been a shift upwards, and even that would not have been the best series for DPS.
Also, the NIN didn't use Sange. This is understandable, as the average NIN isn't throwing gil around. But for a real showing of what a job can do vs. another job, consider the NIN was really pulling its punches.

A few Counters would have placed it before this particular NIN's performance, but it wouldn't have bridged the gap between it and the RUN or the DD PLD.
The DD PLD.
DD PLD.

That was a hilarious display of Ninnery.

No point in even mentioning it since you're so *** delusional, but the NIN also lost to the PLD. None of his videos showcase multi steps, and if the NIN deserves a better weapon, so does the MNK.