IiPunch - Monk Guide

still quit, does mnk still suck?

iirc w/ spreadsheet (i realize not the most reliably resource) i couldn't get verethragna to beat godhands, even with VS vs VS. i haven't had a chance to *** around with the simulation though since it was made when i didn't have a weapon and therefore didn't care about mnk.

as an aside, i should mention that i feel like an average MNK probably has a better chance of being a better DD than an average BLU under capped conditions. MNK has access to the same escha/reisenjima equipment as blu, but access to significantly better accessories (omen) and AH gear (kendatsuba). their AH weapon (jolt counters) is pretty damn close to RMEA tier too, where as any non RMEA blu sword is just total ***compared to sequence/almace/tizona

i don't remember my last results before the update, but emp were a bit ahead, i did have different gear than you particularly on ws. ver still top but relic close enough that i would recommend it over ver. no reliance on aftermath, better defensive weapon, and has more potential in lower attack scenarios

on the topic of relic, i'm still having trouble understanding how it's better than godhands. godhands has 500 tp bonus and 15 base dmg over spharai which shouldn't be negated by the lower delay and relic proc. maybe with uncapped attack situations? but even then, that 500 tpbonus on howling fist should dunk spharai

mine were with smite.

sorry, my sentence was ambiguous. under capped attack situations i can't see godhands losing with any WS, with uncapped you'd probably use howling to reach attack cap (which is why i mentioned the tp bonus for HF with uncapped attack)

Yeah, but it seems there's several mistakes in the spreadsheet.

The python simulation Pchan used and Austar refined is supposed to be more accurate, and Verethragna wins there. Godhands is second/third spot, very close with Spharai and winning/losing according to several things.

How accurate that model is, I can't tell.

Is the placement the same at lower end sets and minimal or no buffs?
I ask for the times when buffs and trust are gone due to aoe and crap when Soloing.

idk if it is better but I have been thinking to make one from scratch... because you know, boredom etc.

The one thing that might really make it shine is the fact that you can get +50% kick attacks with it af+3+bhikku legs+AM on relic. This could be some very nice dot, but ya would it be better than other setups? idk haha.

The nice part is while you do probably about the same dmg regardless, you also get some pretty good defensive stats with that counter.

Getting Spharai AM means you'd have to use Final Heaven, thus negating any sort of damage gain you may have gotten from the KA+15. I'm still unconvinced Bhikku legs/AF is better than Samnuha/Herc anyway. The spreadsheets all model melee rounds wrong (as observed by the >2x difference in model vs reality spread of white damage) and I'm not sure how valid pchan's model is either if it's putting Spharai ahead of Godhands.

In an unrelated note, I updated all the top tier sets for MNK (and hybrid, PDT, MDT)

that was pre update, i know he added several things but the last i checked it still had some errors. my own had relic slightly behind empyrean if empyrean is maintaining am1 just using smite. relic doesn't require that though and is better defensively so relic would be my recommendation for weapon, god hands was third. but this was all with smite, i haven't added any other ws to mine yet.

ya I fully understand your doubt, I share it. Its one reason i asked about af+3 feet, I have them and are using them now but idk.... losing 6 TA seems like a huge deal in my book.

on a side note I finally got my moonbow belt +1 !

Congrats on Moonbow belt +1!
The added defensive benefit of Spharai really isn't that useful. Certainly not useful enough to be a consideration in picking a DPS weapon.

yeah, but you think any defensive option is pointless then whine about blu having defensive options

Counter is an arguably pointless defensive option and is certainly far below Mighty Guard, which is:
Defense +25%
Magic Defense Bonus +15
Regen +30HP/tick
Magical Haste +15%

But I can see how you could equate the two. Wait, no I can't.
Stop whining that the obvious bothers you.

the only thing increasing dps is the haste. the rest is pointless.

I thought we were comparing defensive options? Counter doesn't increase DPS at all unless the MNK has hate. And even then, it must pass through a series of checks and only works on physical attacks, which are the least of concerns. None of this is new information, so I'm not sure why you are acting like you don't know it already.

magic defense bonus, regen, defense don't increase dps.

I think the bigger question not easily answered is af+3 feet or herc w/ TA6. Old math is old, anyone have an up to date way to see that hasnt been shown to be broken?

Yeah, take both out and parse against yourself on the same targets with the same buffs for a protracted period of time.

spharai

Petition for striking dummies added to XI. :(

god, please

Did a quick 10 sample size test, data sucks though because the mobs die too fast. Need to bring 18 people to a t1 or t3 or something...

5x belph, 5x tael

Snapster RUN
Yourfinished MNK
Cair BLU

fury/frail
hmarch/vmarch/bmad/vmin5

Reso/VS/CDC

player/total/dps
snap 816k 4300
your 594k 3200
cair 585k 3100

player/wsavg/#ws
snap 30011 (23)
cair 25918 (17)
your 22478 (15)

Reso/RF/CDC

player/total/dps
snap 520k 5203
cair 426k 4260
your 423k 4230

player/wsavg/#ws
snap 29169 (15)
cair 24697 (13)
your 22076 (12)

all fights:

player/total/dps
snap 1.33m 4791
your 1.01m 3646
cair 1.01m 3626

player/wsavg/#ws
snap 29679 (38)
cair 25389 (30)
your 22299 (27)

So yeah, as you can see it's basically a matter of engaging time when fights are that short. my dps was 1000 higher with RF despite having identical WS avg. I'll see if I can try something more comprehensive tomorrow.

Kick Attacks (and footwork) got updated on that dreadful MNK tweak patch, but nobody knows the details.
It's hard to evaluate that in the spreadsheet or in a simulation because we lack the new values.

I can see the feet winning at least when Footwork is up. When footwork is down it's a hard choice vs Herculean with 6TA.
Spreadsheet shows AF+3 winning to me but I'm ver skeptic about that result and I think it depends on some math being wrong on the spreadsheet.

Another part where AF+3 feet probably wins is in midacc/acc sets where you want to deploy Regal Ring. AF+3 already have a bunch of acc, but with the Regal Ring it's another +15 so that's kinda a winner if you ask me.
It is better the less acc you have on your Herc Feet, of course.

Thanks for the data.
Fights don't last long enough, wonder if the data you provided can be useful or if the engage time skews things towards one direction or another.
Belph has 1.25% more damage from H2H right?

BLU damage seems low for w/e reason.
Concerning your buffs, did any of the buffers use SP?
BoG? Eclipctic Attrition? Marcato? Idris yes/no?
Was Dia2 up? Which food were the DDs using? 2100 JPs on all three?
I bet attack was close to be capped on those targets, if not capped.
With capped accuracy/attack/haste from buffs, one of the big pros of BLUs gets devaluated (reaching those values with way less buffs)

Raging Fists, when properly buffed and with Godhands, always provided better numbers for me both in the spreadsheet and in the limited experience I had through various content.
The problem I see with Raging Fists is the loss from SC damage.
Vsmite can easily randomly SC with Resolution (assuming Lionheart) and CDC, even if you don't try for it it's gonna happen.
Will the damage gained from Raging Fists higher throughput compensate the loss of L3 Light SC damage?
I have no means to evaluate that...


For short fights like this another value that would be very useful is seconds engaged (can you even see this accurately with scoreboard?)

Did 20x Neak, but Cair went to bed so only RUN MNK

Snaps RUN
Your MNK

Snaps TP:


Snaps WS:


Yourfinished TP:


Yourfinished VS:


Yourfinished RF:


Relevant augments:

Snaps:
Herc body - 30acc/atk, 4 TA
Herc feet - 2 QA, 6 stp
Adhemar +1 - All Path A
Lustratio Feet +1 - Path D
Lustratio Head +1 - Path A

Yourfinished:
Adhemar Head/Body +1 - Path B
Adhemar Hands - Path A
Herc Feet (tp) - 20 acc 4 TA
Herc Body - 15 str 25 acc 4 Crit D
Ryuo Hands +1 - Path A
Herc Feet (ws) - 15 Str 35 Acc/atk 4 WSD

BoG Frail/Fury/Torp/Fade (Idris 2x)
Marc. BMad/SMad/HMarch/VMarch (Moonbow Whistle +1)
Chaos/SAM
Boost-STR
Dia 2
Sublime Sushi
Alternate Impetus/Zerk (zerk is useless)
No Cyclas +1
Reso/VS

Fight time - ~1:01 per mob

WS at 1000-1500 tp (as fast as possible)

Reso/Victory Smite:

Player/Total/DPS
Snaps 3.01m 5989
Your 1.89m 3763

Player/WSAvg/#WS
Snaps 30053 89
Your 18467 72

Reso/Raging Fists

Player/Total/DPS
Snaps 3.39m 5852
Your 2.20m 3791

Player/WSAvg/#WS
Snaps 30099 100
Your 18946 84

Cross-Validation: Snaps parse on 20x Neak (all fights)

Player/Total/DPS
Snaps 6.40m 5872
Your 4.09m 3750

Player/WSAvg/#WS
Snaps 30077 189
Your 18725 156


Closing thoughts:
MNK can probably push 4500 DPS with Emp body, Rogue Roll. Under capped situations they will probably get trashed by stuff like RUN/SAM, SAM roll is also heavily biased towards RUN as opposed to MNK. I'm fairly pleased with the results since I cared more about my actual DPS rather than relative DPS, although it is a shame I didn't get to test against BLU.

Other tests I wanna try:
WS at 1500-2000 tp
WS with TK during Footwork
Rogue's Roll
Uncapped Attack

I think it will take some time to figure out how to best play MNK. My thoughts are to stagger Impetus and Footwork. You can use Victory Smite while Impetus is up, and Tornado Kick/Dragon Kick while Footwork is up. I think that you can double dip with Kick Attacks gear (+120 DMG AF+3) and Godhands (DMG +197) while Footwork is up. I haven't tested this though.

Whoops. Forgot to put Begrudging Ring into my VS set.

The rings from Omen were surprisingly providing slightly better data for MNK WS for me, compared to Begrudging Ring. Altough ***is situational of course sooo... yeah.