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For the Shinies! A Guide for Thief
 Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2015-01-16 11:30:26
Quetzalcoatl.Valli said: »Windbuffet is never the best option, Store TP is incredible with Rudra (right now).
You should always aim for Patentia on the waist.
Running spreadsheets all it takes is Microsoft Excel, or Libre office, or any of the spreadsheet programs, then you simply (update the sheet, cause they're out of date...) I don't even have haverton on my sheet, it's a very poor choice in a ring.
1)Plug ***in
2)Find the highest number
3)???
4)Profit
If this is the case, I would think other STP options would be better in haste capped situations.
Excess dual wield beyond delay cap will penalize TP return. The extra STP on Patentia will barely negate that.
i.e. Sweordfaetels (+1), Olseni, Windbuffet+1 all seem like better options, according to what I've plugged in.
Ragnarok.Nanaky
Guildwork Premium
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Posts: 89
By Ragnarok.Nanaky 2015-01-16 11:34:08
Hey Valli,
is there a public version of the spreadsheet that you use to compare equipment set DPS?
Thanks in advance
Asura.Fiv
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 356
By Asura.Fiv 2015-01-16 11:36:24
You still gain from having the dual wield and reaching the delay cap or close to it, so having store tp and dual wield in one slot is just more value out of that slot i think. I mean even with capped haste you still need 11% dual wield and sure you could use other combinations but none of those other pieces has dual wield and store tp.
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By Highwynd 2015-01-16 11:37:07
Is ambush any good? (Initial rank of Ambush is an unknown lev of acc and subsequent ranks are acc+3 so at least 15 acc at 5/5 but initial rank may be more potent). Additionally with plunderer body you get +5% Triple attack. Might not be feasible for like 18 man incursion but could be symbiotic with SAMs since they want to stand infront for overwhelm and you'd want to stand behind when you're TPing for 15+ acc and 5TA.
Quetzalcoatl.Valli
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1420
By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-16 11:38:13
Hey Valli,
is there a public version of the spreadsheet that you use to compare equipment set DPS?
Thanks in advance
Of course it's public. It's not mine. All right here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?usp=drive_web&id=0B0A0wGYYRRdaZjdlNTdkNTEtMDMyYy00OTVmLWI4N2ItNDMwMDI1N2VkYWZk
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Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2015-01-16 11:39:09
Quetzalcoatl.Orestes said: »I found that just a couple minutes ago, but 2 posts later they say this:
Quote: We reconfirmed the settings for the game, and the statement of "delay cannot go below 20% of the original" was the correct setting, rather than the "delay of 75" we had stated yesterday, which is a number obtained while we were verifying it.
I take this as they corrected themselves and 75 isn't actually the cap but 20% is. Perhaps im misunderstanding this.
I'm not sure where this is discussed on BG. I think this is the original context though.
Camate's followup -
Quote: Yes, 80% is the cap. Put in another way, regardless of how much haste and dual wield you stack, the system is set so you cannot exceed 20% of the original attack delay. The value used in my previous post was the actual delay value.
Can you post the link you found on BG? If there was any followup beyond this elsewhere, I haven't heard of it.
One thing to note, is Mote's spreadsheets don't follow a hard cap of 75. He takes the total delay and multiplies it by 0.2. It's easy enough to set Min Delay to 75 in the data tab though.
i.e. In the DPS sheets, Izhiikoh/Jugo+1 has a delay cap of 68.4. With Haste 1, March 1 & 2 (from Ghorn), and /war sub, 13% Dual Wield caps you @68.3 delay. If you set the minimum to 75, then 7% DW caps you @74.8 delay.
If you have Haste 2 & March 2 (Ghorn) you can basically subtract 2 DW and still cap in both scenarios.
This is the original post and the follow up is 2 posts later where they say the cap is 20% and not actually 75.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=6149386&viewfull=1#post6149386
Just seems like a misunderstanding and someone saw 75 and ran with it, unfortunately now that its out there, some people are going to actually believe the cap is 75 delay.
I don't know, I think 75 may actually be the cap. In their original response to my post, they mentioned framerates couldn't handle swinging a weapon faster than 75 delay.
The post you linked is surprising though. I suppose it shoudln't be, but it's really weird how they find a way to post in response to somebody on the JP and NA forums when the devs release any kind of information. I can't really say if they were responding to my post, or the JP post initially. It might just be coincidence that I complained about the exact same thing a JP player was complaining about.
Quetzalcoatl.Valli
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 1420
By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-16 11:42:00
Well, it only takes about 3 seconds to confirm a 75 delay or not.
Take the nq/hq and a brd, haste up and swing. If you swing every second you're past the 75 delay.
60 delay is 1 second.
Is ambush any good? (Initial rank of Ambush is an unknown lev of acc and subsequent ranks are acc+3 so at least 15 acc at 5/5 but initial rank may be more potent). Additionally with plunderer body you get +5% Triple attack. Might not be feasible for like 18 man incursion but could be symbiotic with SAMs since they want to stand infront for overwhelm and you'd want to stand behind when you're TPing for 15+ acc and 5TA.
Ambush is subjective. The worse you are at THF the more benefit you get out of Ambush. If you're terrible and all you do is TA/SA rudra, it's great.
If you actually melee, and the mob turns(which it will, often), you get less use out of it.
The MASS majority of the time I have to stand in front of the mob, for various reasons. There are exceptions.
Ragnarok.Nanaky
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Posts: 89
By Ragnarok.Nanaky 2015-01-16 11:50:49
Thanks Valli! Digging through it now, a lot of great information in here.
Asura.Fiv
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 356
By Asura.Fiv 2015-01-16 11:58:47
I don't want to test it right now, but i want to say if a cap of 75 delay existed, when they nerfed the 93.75% delay reduction that used to exist, it wouldn't have felt like nearly as big of a deal for apocs.
Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2015-01-16 12:02:49
You still gain from having the dual wield and reaching the delay cap or close to it, so having store tp and dual wield in one slot is just more value out of that slot i think. I mean even with capped haste you still need 11% dual wield and sure you could use other combinations but none of those other pieces has dual wield and store tp.
No doubt, IF you're using Patentia to cap delay. It doesn't always make sense to do so though. The waist slot has a lot of competition with other nice pieces of gear.
I personally find Canny (+4 DW) pulls ahead when combined with earrings or the boomerang. It's also easier to stay capped in high acc situations.
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Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2015-01-16 12:13:47
I don't want to test it right now, but i want to say if a cap of 75 delay existed, when they nerfed the 93.75% delay reduction that used to exist, it wouldn't have felt like nearly as big of a deal for apocs.
After re-reading Kincards translation that you linked, it looks like they corrected themselves, and 75 was a mistake.
Quote: the statement of "delay cannot go below 20% of the original" was the correct setting, rather than the "delay of 75"
It's difficult enough we have to rely on translations, but we have them posting nonsense as well apparently.
Quetzalcoatl.Valli
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1420
By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-16 12:27:24
Any belt + DW canny + DW earrings 30 DPS behind
Patentia + Crit canny + Brutal/Suppa 6 DPS behind
Windbuffet + DW canny + Brutal/Suppa 2 DPS behind
Patentia + DW canny + DA earrings
They all hinge on augmented canny capes from #*** so, it's more luck based, than math based.
Dagger Vajra 119
Dagger Jugo
Ammo Ginsen
Head Felistris Mask
Neck Asperity
Earring Brutal
Earring Suppanomimi
Body Plunderer +1
Hands Nilas
Ring Epona's
Ring Rajas
Back Bleating
Waist Patentia
Legs Quiahuiz (str/haste)
Feet Plunderer +1
Set I'm using, only 20 dps behind the best I can find, and relies on no random generated *** from skirmish, or incursion.
 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1388
By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2015-01-16 12:42:48
Haven't got to play with this daggeer yet in end game, but I was off farming accolades/CP for a bit, only have NQ and already loving it. Pushing 520 EXP/hour and 150k CP/hour(double CP + 48% CP cape) at the outer Ra'kaznar Twitherym camps.
YouTube Video Placeholder
I feel like Bill Murray at :55, lol.
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Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2015-01-16 12:55:27
Quetzalcoatl.Valli said: »Any belt + DW canny + DW earrings 30 DPS behind
Patentia + Crit canny + Brutal/Suppa 6 DPS behind
Windbuffet + DW canny + Brutal/Suppa 2 DPS behind
Patentia + DW canny + DA earrings
They all hinge on augmented canny capes from #*** so, it's more luck based, than math based.
Dagger Vajra 119
Dagger Jugo
Ammo Ginsen
Head Felistris Mask
Neck Asperity
Earring Brutal
Earring Suppanomimi
Body Plunderer +1
Hands Nilas
Ring Epona's
Ring Rajas
Back Bleating
Waist Patentia
Legs Quiahuiz (str/haste)
Feet Plunderer +1
Set I'm using, only 20 dps behind the best I can find, and relies on no random generated *** from skirmish, or incursion.
lol, I got you. random augs, and incursion can be a ***. The difference isn't really important enough to discuss. You could sneeze during a fight and have a more dramatic impact on DPS.
I was just running with the original statement / warning against stacking too much DW. I really hate that it's even a thing, and wish SE would fix it. Instead, they basically signed off "too hard, won't fix".
By Heimdel 2015-01-16 13:12:18
Why always Ginsen over any other ammo?
Quetzalcoatl.Valli
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1420
By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-16 13:27:45
"It's what the spreadsheet says is best"
Can't use the raider boomerang anymore u_u;; any individual change is going to be very minor. You can wear potestas, ginsen, thew, cheruski, w/e and only change the dps by 10 or so.
Some people prefer to rock the xbow and use bolts. Not that it's a bad choice, "best is best".
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 376
By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2015-01-16 13:45:31
So does patentia + dw(1dw+) canny do it, or do you still have to rock the dw earrings as well?
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1388
By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2015-01-16 13:50:08
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »So does patentia + dw(1dw+) canny do it, or do you still have to rock the dw earrings as well?
Patentia is 5% DW, Canny Cape, (max augment is 5% DW), puts you at 10%.
TECHINCALLY, you're one DW shy, assuming you have capped Magic Haste and capped Equipment Haste.
11% DW caps your delay reduction assuming you have 43.75% magic haste and 26% haste(equipped).
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Quetzalcoatl.Valli
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1420
By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-16 13:52:37
11% 5+1 =/= 11 lol.
I'd patentia + dw ear set + bleating/rancorous
or
Patentia + suppa/brutal + canny(1%)
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Quetzalcoatl.Waffless
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 376
By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2015-01-16 14:08:59
Ok thanks. Haven't had much luck on the capes dropping, much less getting more than 1% dw(twice, rest total garbage)
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2623
By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-01-16 14:22:48
Also might be of use to note that if you have capped magic and gear haste, and then use Haste Samba, you can go down to THF's native 25% Dual Wield and still hit the cap, allowing you to swap any Dual Wield gear for better alternatives.
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Bismarck.Ihina
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-17 17:01:30
I like to think that this is where excessive 'guides' have taken us. Posting damage screenshots and parse results as a means of bragging was pretty cool the first few years of the game, until everyone realize how moronic and meaningless it was. Looks like it's making a come back.
Fenrir.Magi
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 203
By Fenrir.Magi 2015-01-17 17:07:23
If I was a SAM, I'd pull hate and constantly spin the mob, *** you thieves!
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Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 465
By Sylph.Dravidian 2015-01-17 17:27:00
When the charlo guy posts a bunch of idiotic posts and responses, dmg parses to put him in his place are merited imo. The least he could do is put up or shut up, so maybe he should finally just shut up.
oh and PS. That Ambush must be really helping you!
Quetzalcoatl.Valli
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1420
By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2015-01-17 17:34:23
If I was a SAM, I'd pull hate and constantly spin the mob, *** you thieves!
If I weren't the one tanking half the time, that MIGHT have an affect lol!
Spinning mobs/Moving players is so irritating Q_Q The positioning for TA is really obnoxious too. You gotta be deadnuts behind the guy, slightly left, slightly right, no dice.
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Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-17 17:37:28
dmg parses to put him in his place
That...hurt me more than 10 damage screenshots/parses.
Whatever, carry on.
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Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2015-01-17 17:38:19
I had a JP NIN doing a stellar fulcrum fight that INSISTED on wiggling ever so slightly the entire fight. I think I landed 2 WS with TA stacking.. so irritating.
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Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 465
By Sylph.Dravidian 2015-01-17 18:08:24
dmg parses to put him in his place
That...hurt me more than 10 damage screenshots/parses.
Whatever, carry on.
wut
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