For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Im not saying you will get 5-6 per run, more like 3 10 5 8 4 9 6 5 5 or something like that.

You are welcome to prove me wrong. The difference between th4 and th8 is VERY noticeable for Swarts (whatever old tests would suggest).

Of all the treasure hunter numbers being thrown around here this is the most useful piece of information anyone has presented.



That's a sample size of 80 runs with a recorded average, low, and high. The fact that the low and high are so far apart is proof enough that we need large sample sizes to determine what an expected average drop rate would be at any given TH level. For all that it's worth, we still have no information on just how effective any given treasure hunter tier is at raising drop rates. We just know that "more TH is always better', but by how much.... that's never been answered. S-E refuses to tell us how treasure hunter potency works. And almost everything here is eyeballing and anecdotal.

"Higher TH value are better than lower ones and produce more drops over time" is the only official response S-E has ever given us, and that's only a slight paraphrase from their actual wording. Without large sample sizes you guys are just saying "TH 4 will average X because I think that's how it works or should work". We'd need actual sample collections like Theodren provided to determine an average TH 4 level. If someone wants to start collecting that info by all means, but without it this discussion is going to get sidetracked very quickly.

That sounds about right for a decently fast melee method with no risk. My thief still needs cards so I was doing this last week every now and again and finishing with around 15mins remaining (so about 30mins total right?) I've only made about 5 attempts so I suspected it could be done a lot faster as you've shown you can.

So meleeing super safe can be done in about 25 or so mins and we dont have conclusive data on the AOE method timing in total, but sounds like it can save you 5-10mins with some more risk added and you can't AOE all the 3rd floor mobs due to resistances.

So to each their own. AOE sounds fun, but I do like just wrecking things too and busting out AE when I pull links but it's obviously quite safer to just melee all the things one by one or grab two or 3 via aggro or whatever to make less pulls and have auto target on for immediate target changes. At least that's how I ended up doing it without much refinement.

Out of curiosity, what is the median amount? Can you sort them and give us what #40 is?

Just making sure you didn't overlook it, but what I quoted was from a post Theodren made. He's the one that collected the 80 run sample size. I'd be curious to know the median as well though, just for numbers sake.


I think the fastest you'll clear the first two floors using a pure mellee method is around 6-7 minutes apiece, and with bigger pulls the AoE variant can probably clock in at 3-4 on them if you can handle really big pulls consistently (2-3 with the perfect dodge method if you don't miss any mobs like the one I had to go back for last night). It's only a difference of a few minutes per floor, but it is there. You still have the footwork running between camps regardless as well, and no matter what that's going to eat up a bit of time too. Also nobody's perfect and we all make mistakes, so regardless which method we do we'll have a small variance frm one run to the next. If nothing else, AoEing the first two floors and switching to standard melee should save a few minutes off the run. 5-10 feels like the potential difference though yes.

Its not a huge difference, but if it can be executed effeciently and consistently it does seem to be the best way to farm the crystals is to start off AoE and then switch to melee. Whether it's worth it is up to the individial. I just like doing new things, and after trying it I like the AoE method better. It's just more satisfying for me. I originally said there was little point in AoEing everything because our melee is so strong, and it really is only a few minutes difference, but the enjoyment factor is far higher and that's enough to make it worth it in my book.

I think AoE can go down to ~15 minutes if you gonna play it risky. Melee to ~25.

Got it down to under 4 mins, noticed you kinda need 2x Healers though.
With only 1 healer I've won sometimes but I usually wipe.
I guess with better DT gear than mine maybe? I dunno.
My set isn't really that bad though eh


Atm I'm using Apururu, Ygnas, Koru-Moru, Joachim, Qultada. Calling Qultada last so he stays at ranged distance.
Qultada uses Chaos Roll and Evoker's, which helps keeping my MP up from spamming Absorb-TP and other spells for hate if need be when Collaborator isn't enough.
Yes, /DRK and using SimonSes's strategy.
Love this!

Sadly still no single drop after ~20 more runs using this strat, but hey, drops will come eventually! :D

That's why I use Selh'teus honestly, second healer, and he'll also periodically top off your MP, which is really valuable.

I mean if your gonna asking for data on something here's an idea

Again - Tons of runs on Run,mnk,war,dnc (th4) and I never once walked out with more then 12 Crystals an omen while majority of the time I am leaving with 5-6

thf I casually walk out with 10+ with the random 20+ a run

I don't get your fixation on this matter - Are you trying to say TH has no factor because it clearly does - But to each his own - Go spam on Blu and get those 8 a run my guy

I only have about 20 runs as data, but my average with TH4 is ~9-10, and lows and highs of 6 and 16.

I'm glad it works for you. I only used it couple of times before I finished WotG on alts, so now I simply kill her with Shijin>Vsmite>Vsmite while tagging TH8 from alt's Dia2 :P

Doesn't selh'teus use his special move (Rejuvenation) only under specific conditions though?
Like he has to be within a certain amount of yalms from the current target, and more than one PT member has to be under a certain HP% threshold or something like that?

I find Selh'teus to work wonders in situations with AoE damage like Domain Invasion etc, but pretty lackluster otherwise :x

That's kind of why he works here, she puts out quite a bit of AoE damage, so even if there is a tank trust, I'm still getting down enough where he uses Rejuvination repeatedly in the fight.

Only problem is that he feeds a lot of TP if he's in range, because he never misses.

So here's a question. If I got weaponskill damage + 9% on my herculean boots but no other relevant stats just how close would that put it to lustratio +1 for rudra's storm? The difference in stats are

24 dex, 31 strength, 21 attack

vs.

9% weaponskill damage

I'm thinking the herc aug would still pull ahead, but that's a lot of dex/strength to give up and I know how heavily the secondary stat mods affect the formula. I also have 36 WSD and 30% crit attack bonus (job trait accounted for) in my rudra's set without accounting the legs into the equation. I'm actually having a difficult time figuring out which of the two is better here.

Generally, 5 DEX = 1 WSD on an 80% mod for a decked out DD, so 24 dex would be ~ 5% WSD. I'd guess at ~12 STR = 1 WSD being fairly close as a ratio as well. Since you're probably not getting WSD from set bonus presumably (Relic Legs), I'd say it would be very close. Honestly, I'd lead toward Lust if the only relevant stat is WSD strictly due to the acc/atk from Lustratio's STR.

Get any amount of acc or atk on the herc, I'd probably use it.

I was leaning toward the same conclusion. Had I seen some additional stats I'd be a lot more willing to go with the herculean, but rudra's has such large mods I think path D lustratio is still slightly better. I'm just shifting numbers in the equation around by lowering the base stats and increasing the multipliers. But since I already have a pretty significant amount of multipliers so losing that many stats may actually be detrimental.

Also I'm kind of disappointed right now. I never got Ferrourous Coffin or King of hearts in the alter ego extravaganza. I'm gonna have to wait until summer for another chance to get them. I never really paid that much attention to trust selection before. Most of them are interchangeable for my purposes up until now so I've just been using what I had. Pity that.

Do you have a mule, or run low man with other people? About the only reason I use Coffin is for Raise III after my brother's char dies.

Is that for THF specifically, or just any DD? Because to note, THF is one of the few DD's without 10% WSD pieces, so I'd argue we probably value WSD a tiny bit more than the jobs that have 2 JSE and a back with 10% WSD each.

It's relevent to the omen soloing thing we've been discussing. Simon pointed out that using melee whm trusts would make this so much easier to do because it keeps the mobs in one place. Koru and Apururu make things more difficult than they need to be.

And on the wsd note I have

10 from my cape
5 from epa ring
7 from meg gloves +2
2 from ishvara earring
6 from relic legs +3
6 from artifact hat +3

so 36 wsD total already and if stacked with sneak or trick attack I have

14 crit attack (job trait)
6 from yetshila
5 from relic vest +3
5 from artifact hat +3

so 30% crit damage, which multiplies separately from the wsd multiplier

the feet option has no other viable wsd or crit damage alternative. However, and this is a BIG however, with rudra's 80% dex mod and strong fTP scaling pumping up the dex and strength (I will never cap fSTR on relevant mobs) leads to a strong base for those heavy multipliers. That's why I'm reluctant to let my path D lustratio +1 go just yet. If I didn't already have such a strong set of wsd and cit multiplers it would be a much clearer choice to me.

It's going to be generally true for any WS with that big of a stat mod. You're right that THF has quite a bit less WSD, so it will skew it a bit in the favor of WSD. DEX is also not STR, so again, that would skew in WSD's favor. but generally, it's not going to change the ratio much. Maybe 6:1 or 7:1.

That ratio being based on STR is actually more significant for the ratio than WSD options, I'd wager. But you're right that it probably makes it more like 6-7:1 (I'd say closer to 7:1 for THF) That's good to know for myself as I just got a 7% WSD herc boots augment. So now I have 15 DEX/4WSD vs 7% WSD...lol

Sure thing! I'm glad at least a few folks are finding my weird data collecting habit useful. The median value is 12, which is pretty much exactly what I would expect to see in a "typical" run.

Here's the full set of numbers.

This is all countered by the very low base damage of daggers, which makes wsc more valuable than for something like 300dmg+ 2h weapon.

Not just the wsc either. The fact that thief runs on dex means that I get full fSTR increases as well. My weaponskill set has + 354 dex on top of the crit and wsd mods, but only + 210 str. And that's with the lustratio feet +1. With herc I'd be down to only 179 str. If thief couldn't create such a significant base damage through wsc and fTP multipliers the followup crit and wsd wouldn't do nearly as much for rudras as it does.