For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Langues: JP EN DE FR
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Thief » For the Shinies! A Guide for Thief
For the Shinies! A Guide for Thief
First Page 2 3 ... 186 187 188 ... 192 193 194
Offline
Posts: 1448
By geigei 2019-02-22 05:32:27
Link | Citer | R
 
@Ihinaa i am aware of evi dmg at low health and i just did a rudra to finish.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 535
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-22 08:28:16
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Ihinaa said: »
As I recall, evis hits stop if it's already enough to kill the mob, which is why your evis damage is well under your rudra damage. That's why you need a mob that you can beat on for an extended amount of time for this kind of test.

If you want to calculate damage the mathy way, we can do that too.

total damage = ((dmg + fstr + wsc) * fTP) * pdif

For Rudra (Aeneas/Twashtar)

Main hand
= (140 + 23 + (.8*444)) * 8.75
= 4532
= 4532 * 1.32 (+wsdmg)
= 5982
Offhand
= (140 + 23 + (.8*444))
= 518
Total
= 6500
= 6500 * 3.85 (pdif)
= 25025

Evis (Kaja/Twashtar)

Mainhand
= 117 + 21 + (449 * .5) * 1.45
= 525.62
= 525.62 * 5 (5 hits)
= 2625
Offhand
= 117 + 21 + (449 * .5)
= 362
Total
= 2987

= (2987 * 4.85 * 1.47 * .63) (crit) + (2987 * 3.85 * 1 * .53) (non-crit)
= 13416 + 6094
= 19510
= 19510 * 1.5 (kaja bonus)
= 29265

Don't take that as set in stone. I can wake up tomorrow, do the same calculations again and get slightly different answers. Though, I've done this calculations a few times and I always get the same outcome. Evis was never close to Rudra pre-Kaja. It always bugged me to hear people say that, since neither the math or numerous tests I've done showed that. Evis does pull ahead now though, with the new dagger, and both my math and my practical test (on Tax'et) shows that. Aeneas is a better dagger though, with higher dmg and store tp+10, so that closes the gap between them.

It's nice when practical tests and theoretical calculations line up like this.

I have some issues with this, but they mostly favor Evisceration I believe.

  1. For crit rate you seem to be over estimating either the rate of critical hits or the rate of non-critical hits. I don't know which. Someone else already pointed out that .63 + .53 doesn't equal 1. If .63 is right, then the other should be .37. If .53 is right then the other is .47 (Favors: Rudra's)

  2. Why are you not applying fTP to the offhand hit of Evisceration? (Favors: Evisceration)

  3. What impact does thf's base rate of triple attack (19%) affect the numbers at all? Evisceration can only at most get 2 extra attacks, but Rudra's can get 4. I know it's not a major portion of the damage, but at your cRatio it's also not insignificant. (Favors: ??, evisceration set has TA in the set, so more chance of max swings, rudra's can get more hits.)

  4. I get 49% crit damage with SimonSes' evisceration set on master thf, not 47%

Offline
Posts: 1241
By SimonSes 2019-02-22 11:53:06
Link | Citer | R
 
Ramuh.Austar said: »
this is a bit off. 63 and 53 don't equal 100, I assume those should be your rates, at least. also, where are you getting 3.85 pdif from? it's certainly not an average, it's almost max roll with neck and it looks like you're using fotia in the previous bit.

THF has no PDL on neck, so it's not even that.. I have no idea how he got that.

Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
What impact does thf's base rate of triple attack (19%) affect the numbers at all? Evisceration can only at most get 2 extra attacks, but Rudra's can get 4. I know it's not a major portion of the damage, but at your cRatio it's also not insignificant. (Favors: ??, evisceration set has TA in the set, so more chance of max swings, rudra's can get more hits.)

I get 49% crit damage with SimonSes' evisceration set on master thf, not 47%

Details of my calculations for Evisceration:

Crit rate at 1000/2000/3000 - 65%/83%/100%
Equip 27%
DDex 15%
Base 5%
Merits 5%
250 TP bonus 3~6%
Evisceration 10~50%

Crit Damage - 49%
Avg additional ftp from multi-attack - 1.494
DEX - 403
pDIF - 3.35
Wdamage - 138 (117 on kaja + 21 from capped fSTR) This one is controversial because fSTR has small chance to be capped at high level stuff, but it's hard to estimate fSTR with general WS damage calculation, so it's easier to just assume it's capped.
Offline
Posts: 1241
By SimonSes 2019-02-22 12:02:45
Link | Citer | R
 
I noticed I had small error in numbers for Evisceration (Pdif was 3.25 and none crit fTP was 1.35 instead of 1.45, because I copied formula from DNC and on DNC I used +2 neck for PDL instead of fotia)

New values for 1000TP Evisceration and WS cycle with 1250TP Evisceration:

1000TP - 29801

WhiteDamage/WSDamage/Total:
Kaja/Twashtar - 6285/30495/36780
Offline
Posts: 1727
By DirectX 2019-02-22 16:14:38
Link | Citer | R
 
I put Kaja knife in Gearswap and it does not work. Tried both "Kaja knife" and Kaja Knife" but neither work. What is wrong?
 Asura.Eiryl
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-02-22 18:40:20
Link | Citer | R
 
How/Why do you have weapons in a thf gearswap?

Are you sure it's not using kaja knife at all? is it never equipping it, or is it arguing with itself from idle sets. I'm using it without any errors... but I don't put weapons in mine, no point. If I'm using Vajra or Aeneas or Kaja I put it on myself and leave gs weapon slots blank for thf.
 Asura.Elazar
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Elazar1
Posts: 74
By Asura.Elazar 2019-02-22 19:50:26
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Eiryl said: »
How/Why do you have weapons in a thf gearswap?

Are you sure it's not using kaja knife at all? is it never equipping it, or is it arguing with itself from idle sets. I'm using it without any errors... but I don't put weapons in mine, no point. If I'm using Vajra or Aeneas or Kaja I put it on myself and leave gs weapon slots blank for thf.
Agreed I never put them in the lua for any job due to so many situations. Can’t image anything more annoying then losing tp
Offline
Posts: 274
By Sidiov 2019-02-22 21:32:33
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Elazar said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
How/Why do you have weapons in a thf gearswap?

Are you sure it's not using kaja knife at all? is it never equipping it, or is it arguing with itself from idle sets. I'm using it without any errors... but I don't put weapons in mine, no point. If I'm using Vajra or Aeneas or Kaja I put it on myself and leave gs weapon slots blank for thf.
Agreed I never put them in the lua for any job due to so many situations. Can’t image anything more annoying then losing tp
You put them in a fake set so organizer can pull them automatically.
And "Kaja Knife" works for me.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1727
By DirectX 2019-02-23 04:02:55
Link | Citer | R
 
It worked after shutting down and restarting. I don't know why that happens sometimes.
 Cerberus.Mrkillface
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: bitchtits
Posts: 123
By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2019-02-23 10:17:01
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Eiryl said: »
How/Why do you have weapons in a thf gearswap?

I have weapon sets for all my jobs on a toggle. Useful for building different tp/ws sets for different weapons, cycling through proc weapons for abyssea etc. or low level weapons for omen objectives.
 Asura.Eiryl
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-02-23 10:21:13
Link | Citer | R
 
Only thing thats useful for is hitting it accidentally and losing tp, the same reason you don't macro 2hours.
Offline
Posts: 1727
By DirectX 2019-02-23 10:47:00
Link | Citer | R
 
I only really use THF for Salvage and even just the 1st weapon equip is a blessing for someone as lazy as me.
Offline
Posts: 1241
By SimonSes 2019-02-23 14:31:01
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Only thing thats useful for is hitting it accidentally and losing tp, the same reason you don't macro 2hours.

You can macro it with alt+windowskey+Numpad1 for example. Good luck hitting that by mistake.
Offline
Posts: 1727
By DirectX 2019-02-23 17:22:13
Link | Citer | R
 
For some unknown reason it stopped working again. Using "Kaja knife" earlier it worked fine. Used GS export in case it had some odd name and it was just "Kaja Knife", both capitals, but still wouldn't work when reloading the lua.

Seems to work again after shutting down and coming back on. Don't know why it is only this knife specifically and why I've never had this issue with anything before.
 Carbuncle.Hopefulki
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: hopefulki
Posts: 7
By Carbuncle.Hopefulki 2019-03-05 22:10:07
Link | Citer | R
 
Happening to me as well. When I export with it on, it doesn't even show up. If i equip it while GS is on, I get an error in equip_processing.lua
 Asura.Ajamu
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Bigblue
Posts: 9
By Asura.Ajamu 2019-03-11 15:07:20
Link | Citer | R
 
So question. Is the ambuscade dagger in its final upgrade better or on par with a perfect taming sari in the offhand? I don't know if the crit bonus from the ambu dagger even works in the offhand.

Also I have an aeneas (it isn't R anything currently) and I do not plan on doing any other RMEA anytime soon. I mainhand the aeneas but suppose people suggest mainhanding the ambu dagger or it is better than an aeneas R0 in the mainhand. Is aeneas perfectly fine to offhand considering you still get the store tp +10 and if so is aeneas in the offhand pretty much on par with a perfect taming sari?

thanks.
 Phoenix.Lobsang
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Lobsang 2019-03-11 20:31:17
Link | Citer | R
 
Getting strange TH10 procs while farming cardian's for the KI's for kupo missions. Every so often I engage swing once kill in that hit but get TH increases to 10 (it should be 9) not sure wtf is doing it.
Anyone have any ideas? Or is there something about the zone that I don't know?
 Cerberus.Ephexis
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ephexis
Posts: 94
By Cerberus.Ephexis 2019-03-11 20:33:49
Link | Citer | R
 
Kupowers, perhaps?
[+]
 Phoenix.Lobsang
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Lobsang 2019-03-11 20:41:13
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Ephexis said: »
Kupowers, perhaps?

Oh snap they give TH? guess that's it, nice catch thanks!
 Ragnarok.Inx
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Inxmonk
Posts: 316
By Ragnarok.Inx 2019-03-12 18:56:47
Link | Citer | R
 
Just a quick FYI:

Took my 500jp THF alt out into Omen for a quick farm run, swapped Aeneas for Tauret (perfect Sari offhand). End result was to shave just shy of 5 mins off my usual full clear time and parse showing a 41.87% crit rate over the run (997 strikes).

Seems kinda good, at least on scrub-type mobs. Char is well-enough geared but made no major tweaks to adjust for tp-rate/delay, just spammed Evisc at 1k TP and did TA-Rudra on the Transcendeds.

I'm thinking with that sort of crit frequency it may be worth building around it.
[+]
 Asura.Eiryl
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-12 19:00:57
Link | Citer | R
 
If you geared for it, and kept tp under 1k you'd get 100% rate without a cor. Definitely would be fun.

When you hit like 750tp it might dip under 100%
 Bahamut.Roderic
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Roderic
Posts: 2
By Bahamut.Roderic 2019-03-14 13:27:46
Link | Citer | R
 
Is it possible to make a Tauret and then make a new Kaja Knife?

If yes, where would Tauret/KajaKnife combo fit into the overall main/sub hierarchy? I believe Kaja was close/even with everything but a perfect Sari before (including some REMA options). Could be wrong.
Offline
Posts: 105
By Dsuza 2019-03-17 11:58:37
Link | Citer | R
 
Hey guys, I hope you are having a good weekend.

I am also curious about Tauret.

I know there was a lot of debate on the "Best" 2 daggers, and a lot of the discussion was about on certain situations/mobs.

I know that it seems to be accepted that R15 Twatsmasher and Perfect Taming and/or TP Bonus Dagger off hand is up there as the best, if not 1 of the best options. And I remember there being talk before the update how the next update of the Ambu Dagger would more than likely beat Taming/TP Bonus dagger off hand with R15 Twatsmasher main.

Has anyone tested and is this the case?

If so/not, what are a couple of the BiS for main/offhand Dagger options now?

Thanks in advance!
 Asura.Sechs
Online
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 5558
By Asura.Sechs 2019-03-19 08:57:47
Link | Citer | R
 
Does anybody have a somewhat updated THF spreadsheet?
Last version from Verda dates back to january 2017 and that's more than 2 years old, would be neat to get anything more recent than that.
 Fenrir.Melphina
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: melphina
Posts: 198
By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-03-19 12:48:01
Link | Citer | R
 
I just had a thought I want to share with you guys, inspired by a discussion on the warrior threads. Someone over there asked if dual wielding Tauret/Kaja Knife was possible, and I pointed out that people used to dual wield Mandau/Batardeau so there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be. I mentioned that unlike Twashter, Tauret and Kaja Knife have different names so the rare tag doesn't come into play. Twashter has the rare tag, so whether it's afterglowed or the just the standard Ilvl 119 version the rare tag should prevent you from owning multiples right? That was what I thought, but then this happened

Quote:
Snapster wrote: The name doesn't matter when it comes to items. Each Twashtar has a different item ID, as do the ambuscade weapons.

He's right too. And in addition to that the standard Twaster pulls it's model from a different .DAT location as the afterglowed version, so the game definately does distinguish between the two. In theory... it should be possible to dual wield a rank 15 afterglowed Twashter mainhand with a non afterglowed Ilvl 119 Twashter in the offhand. Has anyone actually tried this? That would be the ultimate dagger combination! Rank 15 twaster is already the strongest mainhand available to us right now, but Twaster is also the strongest offhand for aeneas because the dex is just sky high. R15 afterglow Twash/Ilvl119 Twash would just be bonkers...

Edit: never mind, I forgot the normal Ilvl119 versions stats are only mediocre. It's been a while.
Offline
Posts: 1448
By geigei 2019-03-19 12:55:15
Link | Citer | R
 
Someone allready tried long ago, not possible.
 Asura.Gesetz
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Cptjoe
Posts: 11
By Asura.Gesetz 2019-03-19 12:57:08
Link | Citer | R
 
Regardless, non-afterglowed ilvl 119 Twashtar would only have 20 DEX, which a perfect Taming Sari beats.
 Fenrir.Melphina
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: melphina
Posts: 198
By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-03-19 13:03:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Gesetz said: »
Regardless, non-afterglowed ilvl 119 Twashtar would only have 20 DEX, which a perfect Taming Sari beats.

Your right. I had forgotten how bad the Ilvl 119 versions stats were. It occurred to me after writing that during a brief walk that the non afterglowed twashter is actually kinda junk. I haven't had the non ag version for a while and it slipped my mind. So afterglow or bust. That's my bad.
Offline
Posts: 105
By Dsuza 2019-03-27 14:02:49
Link | Citer | R
 
Still curious about this, if anyone has done any testing I would appreciate it

Thanks guys

Dsuza said: »
Hey guys, I hope you are having a good weekend.

I am also curious about Tauret.

I know there was a lot of debate on the "Best" 2 daggers, and a lot of the discussion was about on certain situations/mobs.

I know that it seems to be accepted that R15 Twatsmasher and Perfect Taming and/or TP Bonus Dagger off hand is up there as the best, if not 1 of the best options. And I remember there being talk before the update how the next update of the Ambu Dagger would more than likely beat Taming/TP Bonus dagger off hand with R15 Twatsmasher main.

Has anyone tested and is this the case?

If so/not, what are a couple of the BiS for main/offhand Dagger options now?

Thanks in advance!
First Page 2 3 ... 186 187 188 ... 192 193 194
Log in to post.