Liberator Vs. Conqueror
Liberator vs. Conqueror
seeing that legend has both and he uses war cause its better is enough to back it up
Because after all, if there's one catch-all, rigorously time-tested critical approach to decision-making, it's the anecdote
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
See WAR thread for detailed pros and cons to Conqueror. Assuming maintaining AM3 is practical, it's the strongest MS zerg weapon, also beats Ukon without MS if you don't have COR rolls.
Where are you seeing that? Not arguing, I just didn't get that from the War Guide post. The comment I saw was:
"Usually the best Mighty Strikes weapon when paired with AM3", but I didn't see what buffs/lack of buffs he was using to make that assertion.
I haven't seen someone math out the difference, so I'm just curious what the actual difference between "best scenario, max buffed" Conq. v. Rag. would be. I just seen Conq. falling behind in capped buff zerg scenarios because I generally was firing off WSs about as fast as the graphics would allow me with just Rag/Ukon..
The recommendations in that thread are mostly from using the DPS spreadsheets. Just grab it yourself if you want to see what the exact differences are for various buffs.
Thetom in our ls has both Conq and Rag. He has mighty strikes numerous times with both and he says that Conq is better. Taint did a hall of mul run with us and he parsed it. His Rag drk, a koga sam, and my lib drk all parsed nearly the same. We had no Conq on that run. I was subbed sam and I realize now that I should have done a 5 hit subbed war. From seeing the 4 main 2 handed mythic weapons in action every day for many months I will say Koga is my top choice. Koga may not be the best at everything, but overall it is good at everything. This is all based off my personal experience and nothing more.
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Content and buffs would dictate which weapon is best.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
Cerberus.Taint said: »
Content and buffs would dictate which weapon is best.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
I'd love to see one\few of those parses, if you don't mind :D
You do not have the skills to use a mythic so just give me all your alex.
Lakshmi.Ryanx said: »
You do not have the skills to use a mythic so just give me all your alex.
Anyhow, @Taint, yeah those number would be awesome to see.
Cerberus.Legend said: »
Thetom in our ls has both Conq and Rag. He has mighty strikes numerous times with both and he says that Conq is better. Taint did a hall of mul run with us and he parsed it. His Rag drk, a koga sam, and my lib drk all parsed nearly the same. We had no Conq on that run. I was subbed sam and I realize now that I should have done a 5 hit subbed war. From seeing the 4 main 2 handed mythic weapons in action every day for many months I will say Koga is my top choice. Koga may not be the best at everything, but overall it is good at everything. This is all based off my personal experience and nothing more.
How many times do I have to indirectly point out the issue with substituting anecdote for evidentiary support on the same page before people stop doing it
As soon as I get home from work I'll upload the parses.
I normally just upload the file onto my website, is there an easier way to just paste the info?
I normally just upload the file onto my website, is there an easier way to just paste the info?
You have a website? Pray share
Cerberus.Taint said: »
Content and buffs would dictate which weapon is best.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
ragnarok is inferior to conqueror if conqueror has AM3 (and I assumed we are talking war vs DRK not drk for both weapons). For instance against level 120 target with extreme buffs :
Quote:
pup
DPS : 345.883476
monk
DPS : 480.278106, spharai : 415.238154
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.860000, ascetic : 467.790600
ryunohige
DPS : 407.704707, relic : 262.614129
war
DPS : 465.253833
conqueror
DPS : 454.075056 ************
koga
DPS : 485.378989
liberator
DPS : 386.212992
ragnarok **************
DPS : 402.204694
DPS : 345.883476
monk
DPS : 480.278106, spharai : 415.238154
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.860000, ascetic : 467.790600
ryunohige
DPS : 407.704707, relic : 262.614129
war
DPS : 465.253833
conqueror
DPS : 454.075056 ************
koga
DPS : 485.378989
liberator
DPS : 386.212992
ragnarok **************
DPS : 402.204694
Only HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE WARs don't use ukon.
pchan said: »
Cerberus.Taint said: »
Content and buffs would dictate which weapon is best. With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos) Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them. I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG) Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
Quote:
pup DPS : 345.883476 monk DPS : 480.278106, spharai : 415.238154 glanz DPS : shijin : 464.860000, ascetic : 467.790600 ryunohige DPS : 407.704707, relic : 262.614129 war DPS : 465.253833 conqueror DPS : 454.075056 ************ koga DPS : 485.378989 liberator DPS : 386.212992 ragnarok ************** DPS : 402.204694
and are you considering the majority of mobs in that level range have crit def/eva?
Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
Did you fix the drk gear sets and factor in souleater because i don't think you did when you posted these on bg if i remember right
They still let him post on BG?
I don't think the op mentionned anything "hall of mul related" (I think nobody cares actually, fairly sure the on year old BG legion thread has twice less posts than the 2 months old salvage thread comparativerly). Now if you care about "hall of mul", you first need to provide stats because they are all unknown... The math based on a negative 40% crit hit rate was done on BG RQT and had ukon and ragnarok(war) come on par. Not that it matters, as soon as you assume MS, I don't see how conqueror wouldn't come ahead.
pchan said: »
Cerberus.Taint said: »
Content and buffs would dictate which weapon is best.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
With general proper buffs Rag would be the best. (embrava,boostSTR,minx3,fighters,chaos)
Missing any of those buffs would help Conq. or rolling for Mythics (chaos/sam rolls) would also help Conq. I have 3 Mul parses with Rag/Koga/Conq/Lib if anyone wants to view them.
I 100% agree with Legend though, Koga is the best bang for the buck for Mythics. (Ryu too but lolDRG)
Liberator would be for hardcore DRKs and Conq for WARs that don't play SAM and don't want to take Ukon/Rag to 99.
ragnarok is inferior to conqueror if conqueror has AM3 (and I assumed we are talking war vs DRK not drk for both weapons). For instance against level 120 target with extreme buffs :
Quote:
pup
DPS : 345.883476
monk
DPS : 480.278106, spharai : 415.238154
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.860000, ascetic : 467.790600
ryunohige
DPS : 407.704707, relic : 262.614129
war
DPS : 465.253833
conqueror
DPS : 454.075056 ************
koga
DPS : 485.378989
liberator
DPS : 386.212992
ragnarok **************
DPS : 402.204694
DPS : 345.883476
monk
DPS : 480.278106, spharai : 415.238154
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.860000, ascetic : 467.790600
ryunohige
DPS : 407.704707, relic : 262.614129
war
DPS : 465.253833
conqueror
DPS : 454.075056 ************
koga
DPS : 485.378989
liberator
DPS : 386.212992
ragnarok **************
DPS : 402.204694
Only HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE WARs don't use ukon.
He updated the Rag DRK numbers, still skipped SE, which is a huge game changer.
Puts Rag at 458 combined DPS with SE.
Liberator vs. Conqueror, and it all boils down to Rag...
Honestly, I'd fricken love a Liberator, +69 to a stat on an Absorb is *** amazing.
Honestly, I'd fricken love a Liberator, +69 to a stat on an Absorb is *** amazing.
Asura.Rucks said: »
Liberator vs. Conqueror, and it all boils down to Rag...
Honestly, I'd fricken love a Liberator, +69 to a stat on an Absorb is *** amazing.
Honestly, I'd fricken love a Liberator, +69 to a stat on an Absorb is *** amazing.
Yeah I actually really wonder if anyone if taking this into consideration. It can last for 165 sec with Dark seal and it gives +64 ( idk how Rucks got his +69 but probably he is right ) so it will decay to +49. Thats avg of +57STR/42att or +57DEX/42acc or +57INT (depends what you need really). I think its pretty significant buff.
Think I'd rather Abs-VIT or AGI in most cases for a solid debuff for the whole alliance.
A dd that cares about the rest of the party? Bollocks!
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Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Think I'd rather Abs-VIT or AGI in most cases for a solid debuff for the whole alliance.
Idk it depends. If mob will die in 30 sec it will be a waste.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
A dd that cares about the rest of the party? Bollocks!
Oh yeah, forgot, it's all about parsing the highest, not benefit overall dmg the most. :P
Bahamut.Atoreis said: »
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Think I'd rather Abs-VIT or AGI in most cases for a solid debuff for the whole alliance.
Idk it depends. If mob will die in 30 sec it will be a waste.
Yeah clearly, but it's a solid debuff/buff that can/should be taken into account, don't you think?
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to summarize this thread: "ICBYDT"
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Bahamut.Atoreis said: »
Asura.Rucks said: »
Liberator vs. Conqueror, and it all boils down to Rag...
Honestly, I'd fricken love a Liberator, +69 to a stat on an Absorb is *** amazing.
Honestly, I'd fricken love a Liberator, +69 to a stat on an Absorb is *** amazing.
Yeah I actually really wonder if anyone if taking this into consideration. It can last for 165 sec with Dark seal and it gives +64 ( idk how Rucks got his +69 but probably he is right ) so it will decay to +49. Thats avg of +57STR/42att or +57DEX/42acc or +57INT (depends what you need really). I think its pretty significant buff.
With top end buffs Abs.STR isn't doing much. (if anything) Abs DEX could be a nice boost to crit rate.
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Yeah clearly, but it's a solid debuff/buff that can/should be taken into account, don't you think?
Yeah but You can still cast normal (without void/seal) absorb for that.
Cerberus.Taint said: »
With top end buffs Abs.STR isn't doing much. (if anything)
Switch to Ragnarok after cast }:>
Cerberus.Taint said: »
Do WS then switch :3
Entropy is not a resolution obviously but If you have 100tp+ You can just WS and switch to Ragnarok and lose like 20tp and few hundred damage instead of 100+TP and 2000+ dmg.
Based on my experience playing with Legend everyday, with his performance being amazing on both jobs respectively, i do think i enjoy playing with his Conq WAR more than his Lib Dark Knight. Mighty Strikes Upheavel with AM3 on is pretty insane.
Edit: I also feel like Tomahawk is extremely necessary especially for Hall of Mul's Botulus Rex.
Edit: I also feel like Tomahawk is extremely necessary especially for Hall of Mul's Botulus Rex.
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