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If it doesnt totally gimp the damage
a post-patch level 1 WS is comparable to what a level 4 WS currently is.
It'll be weaker, but not useless.
Overall Battle System Adjustments For The Future
Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future
a post-patch level 1 WS is comparable to what a level 4 WS currently is.
It'll be weaker, but not useless.
Thanks for correcting my error, good sir. I wasn't 100% sure on the math.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
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If it doesnt totally gimp the damage
a post-patch level 1 WS is comparable to what a level 4 WS currently is.
It'll be weaker, but not useless.
Didn't see it posted here yet, but they answered Byrth question:
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The Japanese post used the term "correction" for the 1H adjustments, which was interpreted by us to mean "level correction" to Ratio/Accuracy. Could you confirm if this is accurate?
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They are specifically talking about the fact that stats such as DEX and STR affect two-handed weapons more than single-handed weapons, and how they would like to make it so there are more merits to wielding single-handed weapons.
The term "補正" can be translated as "correction" in some cases, but in this context it is the term known as "modifier."
The term "補正" can be translated as "correction" in some cases, but in this context it is the term known as "modifier."
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Didn't see it posted here yet, but they answered Byrth question:
Quote:
The Japanese post used the term "correction" for the 1H adjustments, which was interpreted by us to mean "level correction" to Ratio/Accuracy. Could you confirm if this is accurate?
Quote:
They are specifically talking about the fact that stats such as DEX and STR affect two-handed weapons more than single-handed weapons, and how they would like to make it so there are more merits to wielding single-handed weapons.
The term "補正" can be translated as "correction" in some cases, but in this context it is the term known as "modifier."
The term "補正" can be translated as "correction" in some cases, but in this context it is the term known as "modifier."
and just like that all my hopes are dashed.
They're still thinking about it though, maybe we can convince them otherwise.
Honest question - what are the factors that cause dual wielding to be weaker than 2h on higher level mobs? I know level correction is one of those factors. I read BG's explanation of PDIF but I wasn't able to understand how that creates a gap between the 2H and 1H users.
2Hs and 1Hs are penalized the same amount per monster level, the problem is that it isn't a direct percentage but rather a solid number which means it impacts the cap for 1H and 2Hs differently.
Simply put, let's take the absolute caps:
1H: 2.0
2H: 2.25
you get -0.05 per monster level above you, so for a level 100 monster:
1H: 1.95
2H: 2.20
While at first glance you might think, "oh, okay, they're penalized the same amount", if you actually calculate it the damage reduction is greater for the 1H jobs:
0.05/2.0 = 2.5% reduction in damage
0.05/2.25 = 2.22...% reduction in damage
With each level added onto the monster the gap becomes more and more apparent, and that is why 1Hs suck so badly on high level monsters.
There does come a point where the numbers technically have the 2 handers start losing damage %-wise faster than 1 handers, but this doesn't exist because it would require monsters that are like, level 150 or something which isn't going to happen (oh god I hope not, at least).
Simply put, let's take the absolute caps:
1H: 2.0
2H: 2.25
you get -0.05 per monster level above you, so for a level 100 monster:
1H: 1.95
2H: 2.20
While at first glance you might think, "oh, okay, they're penalized the same amount", if you actually calculate it the damage reduction is greater for the 1H jobs:
0.05/2.0 = 2.5% reduction in damage
0.05/2.25 = 2.22...% reduction in damage
With each level added onto the monster the gap becomes more and more apparent, and that is why 1Hs suck so badly on high level monsters.
There does come a point where the numbers technically have the 2 handers start losing damage %-wise faster than 1 handers, but this doesn't exist because it would require monsters that are like, level 150 or something which isn't going to happen (oh god I hope not, at least).
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Walk of Echoes
Remove EX status from each type of coin
Remove EX status from each type of coin
So as someone who doesn't want to do chloris how do you think this will affect the WoE empy weapons? Will it make them actually viable now that you will be able to buy coins from others? Do you think there will actually be enough people selling them for it to matter?
Odin.Screamingbabies said: »
Quote:
Walk of Echoes
Remove EX status from each type of coin
Remove EX status from each type of coin
So as someone who doesn't want to do chloris how do you think this will affect the WoE empy weapons? Will it make them actually viable now that you will be able to buy coins from others? Do you think there will actually be enough people selling them for it to matter?
I think that it will be a demand -> supply sort of thing. A new market for them. People will do WoE to just sell as another income of gil.
Odin.Screamingbabies said: »
So as someone who doesn't want to do chloris how do you think this will affect the WoE empy weapons? Will it make them actually viable now that you will be able to buy coins from others? Do you think there will actually be enough people selling them for it to matter?
Before this, I imagine the best reason you would've had to get a WoE weapon was because you didn't have the time/resources to obtain a full Empyrean weapon, but you still wanted a good WS for a job you didn't want to invest WS merits into.
However, because this is coming along with the merit WS adjustment, I don't think they're realizing that they're actually devaluing WoE weapons even further.
After the patch you'll have the choice, for example, between spending quite a bit of time doing WoE things/spending gil for coins to get a weapon that provides you with Victory Smite, or spend 15 merit points and get a level 1 Shijin Spiral that will have a 80% DEX mod. The smite will beat Shijin (by a lot if in abyssea), but you also need to factor in that you can't 99 the Smite Weapon unless you spend a lot of extra gil to get dice/residue.
They're going to need to reduce the required amount of items for WoE weapons, ESPECIALLY dice/residue, if they want them to be relatively easily accessible weapons for players without the time to get a full REM weapon.
i think making the coins is a good idea in some ways. It will open a new way to make gil but make it easy for lazy people to get an empy WS
Enuyasha said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Losing 20% (~23.5%) WSC on weaponskills for secondary jobs won't be the end of the world in a majority of cases, so up to 4 or so more if you drop 1 5/5 WS. I know I'll be dropping Requiescat to 1/5 for sure.
it doesn't. it's reducing the WSC from the current 85% to 65% when going 5/5 -> 1/5. They'll be weaker, but they'll still, in a majority of cases, be superior to alternative weaponskills and still be powerful. For an almace BLU, there would be no reason to have 5/5 Requiescat.
This will allow me to drop points from Exenterator to get Shijin Spiral for my MNK, Requiescat for BLU, and a number of weapon skills for WAR if I wanted to. Even at 1/5 these weapon skills will outdo what I otherwise have available for these jobs/weapon (Aside from BLU which I have Almace for, but Requiescat is a great utility WS to have).
This change is a lot more helpful for people with multiple jobs than a simple +5-10 to category max would do, IMO.
This change is a lot more helpful for people with multiple jobs than a simple +5-10 to category max would do, IMO.
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I'm concidering to take Upheaval down to 4\5 (I like it for skillchain-reasons, and nice to have a good non-crit ws while using Ukon) and get 1\5 Req atleast, it's a better change than what I thought at first(raged a bit about them not adding 5-10 more points in the group).
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Thanks for the explanation on cRATIO Kincard. That cleared things up for me.
Is there any other factor besides level correction that makes dual wielding worse than 2H?
Is there any other factor besides level correction that makes dual wielding worse than 2H?
That's probably the biggest thing that affects it.
STR/DEX scaling means that a one-hander has maybe ~30-40 less attack/accuracy than a two-hander does at 99, which is a lot when you think about it. Changing that can help some but it won't help as much under high buffs (which is where one handers really fall behind anyway).
While this isn't a system limitation, it can be argued it's much harder to gear for a dual wielder under high buffs because you have to swap out haste/DW gear based on what +march the bard has, if SV is used, etc. It's a lot more bothersome to gear a 1 hander job. Aside from things like Apoc AM up/down, it's a lot easier to gear a 2-hander's TP phase.
STR/DEX scaling means that a one-hander has maybe ~30-40 less attack/accuracy than a two-hander does at 99, which is a lot when you think about it. Changing that can help some but it won't help as much under high buffs (which is where one handers really fall behind anyway).
While this isn't a system limitation, it can be argued it's much harder to gear for a dual wielder under high buffs because you have to swap out haste/DW gear based on what +march the bard has, if SV is used, etc. It's a lot more bothersome to gear a 1 hander job. Aside from things like Apoc AM up/down, it's a lot easier to gear a 2-hander's TP phase.
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Or SE could just give us 5-10 more merit levels (20-25 max then) for merit weaponskills and there'd be nothing but happiness!! :D
They're making things too complex when it comes to this.
They're making things too complex when it comes to this.
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Or SE could just give us 5-10 more merit levels (20-25 max then) for merit weaponskills and there'd be nothing but happiness!! :D
It comes down to personal preference (how many jobs you have leveled), but if they made the category max 20-25, it means you would be able to have 4-6 level 4 WSs, compared to the change they are doing, which effectively allows us to have 15 level 4 WSs (only 14 total but you get my point). I don't understand why anyone would complain that this will not change anything/this is a bad change, especially when the primary complaint was "I want to be able to play my other jobs without being gimped by missing an important weapon skill". Well, now the only way that would happen is because you chose to max out a weapon skill instead of investing 1 point into another one.
I understand that the proposed change will make it so that 1 merit point in a meritted weaponskill will effectively give you 4 merit points in the current meritted weaponskills. However, what will the subsequent 2, 3, 4, and 5 points do for that WS? Will the future 5 be the same as the current 5? So basically the increase between each tier will be very small in comparison to current?
Sylph.Peldin said: »
I understand that the proposed change will make it so that 1 merit point in a meritted weaponskill will effectively give you 4 merit points in the current meritted weaponskills. However, what will the subsequent 2, 3, 4, and 5 points do for that WS? Will the future 5 be the same as the current 5? So basically the increase between each tier will be very small in comparison to current?
Yes, it's in the OP. "We are envisioning to make it so 1 merit point will yield a 65% status modifier, and each point afterwards will grant an addition 5% for a maximum of 85% (no changes to the max value)."
I'll go ahead and steal something Motenten posted elsewhere:
| Merit | SE % (old) | Player % (old) | SE % (new) | Player % (new) |
| 1 | 17% | 20% | 65% | 76.5% |
| 2 | 34% | 40% | 70% | 82.4% |
| 3 | 51% | 60% | 75% | 88.2% |
| 4 | 68% | 80% | 80% | 94.1% |
| 5 | 85% | 100% | 85% | 100% |
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So Level 1 is just under what 4 is currently (-3.5%), but 2 is slightly over (a whopping 2.4%). Kind of odd if you ask me, the way they are going about this, but it is what it is. I can drop requie 3 points, maybe 4, and add 1 WS, like Last Stand.
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Kind of odd if you ask me, the way they are going about this
Given some of the other changes (The proposed 1H adjustment, making DRK a better sub, changing INT/MAB dynamic on spells), it feels to me that they are trying their best to satisfy the players' wants without resorting to simple changes that the playerbase suggests that they do.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
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Kind of odd if you ask me, the way they are going about this
Given some of the other changes (The proposed 1H adjustment, making DRK a better sub, changing INT/MAB dynamic on spells), it feels to me that they are trying their best to satisfy the players' wants without resorting to simple changes that the playerbase suggests that they do.
So in some instances (like the merit WS changes), instead of giving people what they want/ask for, you give them some odd work-a-round that doesn't quite equate to what they wanted, when what they wanted could have easily been done anyways? Again, seems odd to me *shrug*
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Leviathan.Kincard said: »
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Kind of odd if you ask me, the way they are going about this
Given some of the other changes (The proposed 1H adjustment, making DRK a better sub, changing INT/MAB dynamic on spells), it feels to me that they are trying their best to satisfy the players' wants without resorting to simple changes that the playerbase suggests that they do.
I see the whole WS workaround as a way to make the WS's more accessible to everyone while also keeping a degree of specialization; this way, not everyone can manage to be the best at everything, which is kinda what I thought the whole merit system was about in the first place.
Lakshmi.Zyphos said: »
I see the whole WS workaround as a way to make the WS's more accessible to everyone while also keeping a degree of specialization; this way, not everyone can manage to be the best at everything, which is kinda what I thought the whole merit system was about in the first place.
Then why have several other categories (like stat allotment like STR/DEX etc) get DOUBLED?
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