Overall Battle System Adjustments For The Future

Yes. Even adding pets bst sucks. It's only better than nin I think.

Lol

Thats more of opinion then facts cause i far from suck and beaten my share of "real" DD. But i can agrue it till my fingers bleed, ppl will believe what they want to, theres just to many bst haters out there to convince them all. I've seen it personally, mabye some servers just dont have any good ones.

No really are you parsing this? If so is it against competent dds that are wsing at 100% or full af1 drks?

There are things that are independent from players' capabilities.

I'm just going to put this out here but.. if FFXI trend continues then by the next job update and/or expansion release, all of the jobs that are kicking *** right now will suck again, and all of the jobs that got thrown under the bus will be on top (I'm looking at you RDM, PLD).
A note on BST- I love my BST but from my experience with the last 5 years (and knowing its history before I leveled it) BST is probably the job SE cared the least about. When BST became this amazing job as they updated it, I constantly felt like it was some sort of screw-up they were just too lazy to fix. It's hard for me to imagine SE lavishing so much love on a job like BST intentionally when there are jobs like SAM and RDM and PLD that have always been cherished by SE. Maybe its just me, but I feel as though we are in between an update that will eventually restore those jobs to their original hierarchies. Just my two cents :)

So basically lvl75 content, gotcha. The same content jobs like BLU WAR SAM DRK DRG etc etc etc can all faceroll with /DNC or a pocket healer.

Thanks for making my point btw that pet jobs are not balanced for content equal to their own level.

You can harass a few NMs way below your level or solo something with a mechanic that can be exploited but when you get down to the nitty gritty, the jobs are ***versus equal level content and horrible for various reasons @lvl99 content.

"Get real jobs" isn't an excuse for the fact that SE refuses to balance pet jobs versus endgame content. BST is a laughing joke as the pets get trounced by anything over EM, PUP is quirky and doesn't really do anything good even w/automaton fixes and finally because pets dont get buffs from players without using pet-specific rolls you're gimped already and then gimped again as everyone benefits from haste/march/min/mads and whatever else you happen to throw on DD.

SE: Quantity over Quality. I wait on knife's edge for GEO to have something intrinsically wrong with it because it depends on "pets" which in this case are totems.

They also specifically said geo totems will be easily killed by aoe <.< lol.

Hold on guys, gonna drop some ATT totems.

AOE AOE AOE AOE

Ok, hold on guys I'm waiting 3mins for my totems to be back up again.

Ok, shelve that job and bring BRD or COR plz.

I don't "hate" BST but I've played FFXI long enough to know that the job is absolute garbage at anything outside the trivial pre-99 content that anyone can do in a duo with a number of other classes.

The job provides mediocre DD, trash tanking ability and no support skills. The small little support tricks it has like Wild Carrot are so far removed from convenience that it's as if SE wants to mock the player for trying to make the job work.

When I started playing it was not lolpup, or lolbst it was loldrg. I spent months with my flag up soloing. It was right after the big rmt-drg nerf, if anyone can remember that, that I unlocked drg. when I got to the "proper" level I could not stop the invites from rolling in. I also took Drg to sky, only to have the LS tell me don't use that WS use this so the sams can dark skillchain. It pained me to see that I was so far down on the damage list every time. So when I see people upset that their fav job cannot do this event or that event,I cannot understand.Some jobs are just used for x event but are crap for y event. If you like a job then play that job. it is as simple as that. (op) I am looking at the /drk to be the normal for Rune Fencer, that is why they changing stuff.

I read it, i actually read it 3 or 4 times. They want all jobs to be viable in all situations. That means "can't find a rag drk, lets take a dnc." Just no, not all jobs are viable in all situations, that's the point of a job system. And what's great about ffxi is you can change jobs. I cannot understand why anyone would expect to balance or even maintain it while making the adjustments necessary to allow bst to compete with war in legion.

No one expects equal damage output, just the gap to be closer because right now it's quite noticeable.

Yes, and there's a big gap in the offensive magic output between whm and sch. There should be. Bst is not a dd, its a solo/farming job.

Mfw stupid comparison.

So is comparing bst and war or drk for the same party spot.

The game doesn't support large swaths of content that is meant to be soloed unless you count lvl75 content so quit with the reductio ad absurdum, its completely unnecessary. Farming? You mean that thing THF can do better alongside high levels of Treasure Hunter and Evasion? Jobs that typically can solo 99 content don't use pets that get mollywopped by things that con VT / IT either so you again have jobs like SCH, BLU and BLM encroaching upon territory you claim is where BST and PUP shine.

See the problem yet?

BST is not viable at all at high level alliance content nor is PUP and as you scale things down to what you feel "they excel at" again you see encroachment by a number of jobs making BST and PUP extremely niche jobs that act as number padding in a game with way too many jobs to begin with.

RNF and GEO could have been aspects of PLD and SCH respectively and improved both classes but because we like new shines they'll be new jobs that have to compete with 20 other jobs half of which are garbage.

When I can go afk in full perle and annoy the *** out of people while keeping claim on 2 monsters on my DRK, I'll feel bad that BST does 60% of my damage in Legion.

When they give WAR a puppet that can heal indefinitely, provide hate free magical damage on targets that aren't super resistant, and WS proc dynamis mobs extremely quickly I'll feel bad that PUP does 60% of my damage in Legion.

When they give SAM as wide of a variety of procs for the events in the game as NIN, I'll feel bad that NIN does 60% of my damage in legion.

Until then, I think I'm A-ok with it as is.

Here comes the tired Dynamis argument, right on schedule.

What part of Dynamis is an event arrayed with EPs that are of no consequence to any job isn't coming in clear? Just because people use BST in Dynamis suddenly doesn't give the job a niche because of the fact that anyone with a healer can do equal/better.

Sup THF, BLU, DNC, NIN??

When you stop bringing up situations where you're up against EPs and DCs then perhaps an argument will form in a game that largely boasts battles against monsters that con T or higher.

And the argument from ignorance on "unlimited healing pet" which translates to "doesn't really do much at content that matters due to recast times, AI silliness and global timers" doesn't help much either.

If you think a healing automaton is anything special at content where you sacrifice attack rounds to get the pet to work is somehow a balancer for jobs like DRK, WAR and SAM reigning supreme you're being unreasonable. If I'm in a party as a PUP then my goal will be to improve my damage through the damage dealing automatons.

What's that? Cerberus2 just used Acheron Flame and oneshot my Automaton? Bummer, now I have to waste more time redeploying a pet that gets no buffs and lose a ton of damage while the SAMs throw more Shohas into it than you can shake a stick at.

Hate free damage? You mean that archaic way of fighting Tiamats/Jorms and other select monsters no one gives a ***about anymore? The game has become increasingly fast paced in terms of strict timers and how long you can turtle something without getting blown the *** up and you're gonna bring in hate free damage? lol.

Look guys, I never expected pet jobs to be the kings of damage because they cannot be beside purist jobs that do one thing properly but in FFXI jobs like BST have always been arbitrarily useless for fear of putting purists out of business which is hilarious considering how bad the pet interaction systems have been. Look out ***, that 300 dmg Hoof Volley will be the death of Resolution.

When a BST fields something like an Adamantoise everyone should be given a buff that lowers damage taken that bypasses the cap to not only justify fielding a job that isn't a purist but also makes the pet useful somehow even if it isn't throwing out huge amounts of damage. You know, incentives. I hear they work.

While I would happily see 1 handed DDs get better, I also feel its worth mentioning that there really is no event that a job like pup or bst could not do. It is a true statement that the ease with which a Dark can do acceptable in legion requires less work than a pup, and that an Ideal pup will do less dmg than an ideal drk. However, many players have learned that a good pup can beat a bad dark.

We then examine that no event requires the "absolute best gear" to be successful. Though an event like legion or ADL will only improve as the quality of your players increases (whether it be killing more mobs in a set period of time or bringing fewer people to have to share drops with), the minimum requirements to successfully contribute to these events are well within the ability of any DD job to accomplish.

In other MMOs, balance is important because you're fairly restricted being that your class is typically a permanent choice. Druids in wow are always druids, though they can choose Healer, DPS, Mage DPS, or Tank specs. A priest is more akin to an sch, but still only a mage, and they can only serve one role during a fight.

Warlocks, in WoW, have 3 damaging trees. Some excel at controlling mobs more than kill it, as is true for mages.

Point is, if classes aren't viable and competitive in DPS, choosing the proper spec, it's the character that feels gutted, not the job.

I love my paladin, but he has little practical use at the moment. Knowing that, I still built an aegis, almace, and my ochain isn't far from done.

When Paladin isn't appropriate, as it often isn't, I can switch to Ninja, THF, WHM, and still be on my character, with my progression (vs switching to alts and re-progressing them).

It astounds me how dumb your posts can be sometimes, yet have good points/arguments in others.

1) When someone uses WoW as an example, it doesn't mean they are saying FFXI should be like WoW, especially when they are referring to all MMO's in general.
2) Every job being useful does not equate to every slot can be filled with one job. Like seriously how the hell did you even make that connection?
3) At the time when I played WoW competitively, the player was much more important than the job they came on. It was more important to make sure you were covering the necessary raid buffs and debuffs than it was to try to bring a job that could potentially out DD another.

This is where FFXI fails on end-game content. Debuffs are just no where near the value of buffs. Example - People complain about RDM being worthless now. Improvements to the current design could allow dia3 (along with other debuffs) to be highly sought after, making RDM (and other jobs) valuable without trying to equalize everyone's damage.

oh god I hope that won't be the recast, and that there will be multiple totems to put up D:

Adjustments to battle dynamics are what we are all in favor of. If Dia 3 went through PDT it would open a lot of possibilities for RDM. If the added effects on WS worked right, you would see more jobs in Legion and Odin 2. As it sits, that isn't how it works. Most of this thread has been focussed on buffing 1 handed jobs because Resolution is OP, QQ.

At the time I played wow competitively, class stacking was the norm. World firsts and US firsts often stacked hunters and mages. Not even locks so much, or shadow priests. Wanna-be guilds followed in those footsteps as well. WotLK just favored ranged. HM Saurfang, HM Festergut, HM Anub-Arak, Putricide, Sindragosa.

Each healer excelled in one area and hard fights, especially when going for a record, had raids switching around, having people switch specs, and sometimes change to (very geared) alts. Sometimes a player would lose their lock for a few fights and then sit out other fights. When I played WoW, the class was much more important than the player, especially for tanks.

The first Hard Mode Festerguts demanded a shield tank, specifically warriors I think. I don't think HM Anub-Arak ever stopped demanding a shield tank for adds. You didn't beat HM LK without Disc Priests.

Many many guilds just didn't raid if their holy pallies didn't log on because noone healed like a tank like a holy pally.

How did Blizzard answer that? They made everyone a holy pally. Blizzard's solution to balance is make everything very much the same.

BST can solo many things that no other job can solo.

They are not as good in group content.

I do not think that they need to be.

You think that their ability to solo is irrelevant because they're weaker at group events.

If you're insisting they should be closer to equal in legion, you're surely in favor of giving all jobs abilities to close the solo gap as well, right?

Yes there were niche fights where certain classes were better, but I raided all of the WotLK hard mode fights, and Disc Priests were not the only healers for HM LK. You also didn't stack particular dps. Stacking all of one or two classes is dumb because you missed out on important buffs for those classes that allowed them to excel. Several debuffs were shared by jobs, so you could bring one or the other, like feral druid or rogue could provide the same armor pen debuff (I think the pvp spec of warrior could do but lolpvp). Mages would've been crappy dps without a shadow priest and/or boomkin. Hunters would've been crappy without a feral druid or rogue or warrior. If you don't believe me, put together a 10-man group of 6 DD consisting of Spriest, boomkin, warlock, 2 fire mages, and a hunter. The hunter could out-parse them in most 25-man fights given full raid buffs, but will definitely lose the parse in this 10-man fight(this may not be true today, but I haven't played WoW in a long time).

Enhancement shamans are the perfect example. Their own dps was kinda crappy, but the buff they gave to the rest of the melee was enormous.

And that is my point with what FFXI can do with 1H jobs. Give them buffs/debuffs that make them valuable to an alliance.

Look at Corsair... kinda crappy dps, but their rolls make them a highly valuable addition to the alliance (not to mention doing damage outside of melee range).

DNC is already perfectly set up to be just like a melee version of COR if their debuffs were more useful.
THF... on the right track with TH and Feint (and possibly future uses of Aura Steal) but needs more.
BLU... obvious spell changes
Ninja... I don't even know.


TL;DR - if 1H damage shouldn't be on par with 2H damage, then allow 1H jobs to be valued in an alliance by giving them potent buffs/debuffs.

I'm still not getting why every job has to be good at everything. 1H jobs will put up respectable numbers on anything without significant level correction, and they have significantly more defensive capability and gameplay dynamic than 2h jobs.

In other games, you're intended to have one job and play that everywhere. Many of them lock your character to your job. FFXI does not, they've added countless options to easily level additional jobs, there's quite a bit of overlap on better endgame gear, SE most likely doesn't want you to stay on one job the entirety of your gameplay.

I've never heard a single heavy DD whine that they can't solo dynamis efficiently. I can name quite a few that leveled BST or THF to do so, though.

Again, for the second time, I'm not saying every job should be good at everything. I'm saying every job, or at LEAST the majority of jobs, should bring value to an alliance for EVENTS.

I'm not talking about soloing. I'm not talking about low-manning. I'm talking about events that you need a full alliance in order to attempt.

I understand this point. Many 1H jobs do excel for low-man/solo situations. The difference is that you don't need to get ideal gear for these situations and have others depending on you to pull your weight.

Although, MNK doesn't really fit this category. Their solo capability is worse than DRK, WAY worse than DRG, and situationally worse than WAR, yet they still get the shaft on high level targets too.


*edit* Not to mention the boring factor. Design end-game events that cater to the same small handful of jobs? C'mon. It'd just be more fun if more jobs could be ideal in end-game.

For the vast majority of the playerbase, solo/lowman is most of their gameplay. For the elites, leveling a new job is borderline irrelevant in terms of time investment. It results in people trying out multiple jobs, playing the game longer, things SE wants.

You could easily claim that DRK is bad for lowman. It's terrible for solo dynamis, less reliable than other jobs for solo limbus, it can be a liability on a few salvage2 mobs(thinking hydra most here). The lack of defensive capabilities will likely lead to less damage over time than a DNC or MNK in some solo-trio situations, while also being more taxing on mages. If you want to insist the ideal end-game alliance incorporates every job for debuffs, it's only logical that every job also becomes equal for lowman.. you can't expect them to equalize the weaker endgame jobs and leave heavy DD screwed in terms of solo/notably weaker for duo and trio.