PLD Vs NIN...Who Is The Best Tank?

Sam tank can be very good, but it requires very good gear, and also brains.

Little to no survivability w/o good support. 3rd eye is wiped with an AOE ws but not by AOE magic. Player must be able to swap full sets of gear quickly.

To avoid a quote train, I'd like to just say that a BLU/NIN tank seems like a mix of PLD/NIN and NIN/DRK. We have plenty of spammable spells that pull hate. Head Butt, Jettatura, Actinic Burst, Temporal Shift, etc. are great supportive spells that pull a large amount of hate. Spike damage from the big three can rival WS power and also pull hate. While our gear isn't shared with PLD much, we do have access to significant damage reduction gear through Genbu's, Jelly Ring, Defending Ring (Well, we do get it!), Cheviot/Umbra Cape, Denali Wristbands (eh), etc. As for magic, we can equip Magic Defense Bonus and have MDB boosting spells, like Amplification and Saline Coat (well...).

Of course, without some form of refresh, a BLU tank will probably struggle. Also while Expiacion may be Atonement in Spanish, it unfortunately isn't Atonement in damage.

Also, BLU has Cocoon, one of the best defense boost spells out there.

I knew there was a catch, finding a sam with brains...

There are about 8 of us out there.

For that matter, PLD/BLU was the Super Tank for Divine Might. Had Def close to 999 after Cocoon. (A very well geared Palidan.)

wait...we even need to talk about pld vs nin?

^^ for effectiveness

So... doing the numbers on blu/pld... seems sentinel diffusion exuviation flash actinic burst jettura+ temporal shift can get you over 90% of the way to the nondecaying hate cap in like 10 secs... double that amount in decaying hate... to give an example thatd be about 25% more decaying hate then sentinel invincible which gives like pretty much 0 nondecaying... just need to find way too stay alive... hmmm couple of rdm/drks with me super haste can damn near stun lock most mobs...

not reading 6 pages of this but heres what i have to say, the one that gets hit the least and doesnt consume up mp and holds their hate wins ive seen ninja hold suzakuu better then paladins, ive seen paladins hold cerebus better then a ninja, but hey, whoever does it the best

WD40 gets rid of trolls?! Neato! o_O

Apathy beat them. The ls that was featured as being in the insanely long fight was Above The Limitation? Beyond the Limitation? Something along those lines...

Also, to the vets on the forum, did you guys *seriously* spend an entire page arguing with someone who a) thinks that nin/pld tanks have a place in merit parties and b) appears to have never even seen Atonement in action? >.>

Diffusion > Sentinel > Exuviation will get you 7680 of both CE and VE, following it up with either temporal shift or actinic burst will get you an extra 2k VE which is ridiculously close to cap and put you on over 8k CE. Yawn, sheep song, soporific, blank gaze and geist wall will all increase your CE by ~450 by this stage in sentinel and all have a 3 second cast time. They'll also increase VE by the same amount, so there's no real need to concentrate too heavily on VE.

So basically. Best hate you'll get (probably for any job) is diffusion > sentinel > Exuviation > temporal shift (or actinic burst) and then just rotate sheep song/blank gaze/soporific/geist wall/yawn depending on which are cheapest MP cost (in the order I said I think) and then just use actinic burst and temporal shift as needed, with the occasional jettatura just to be damn sure your VE stays capped.

Staying alive is a different issue, but no other job combination can create this sort of enmity and sustain it. pld/rdm or rdm/anything would win for sustaining the hate, thanks to fast cast, but no other job can get that much hate that fast. The only catch is that Exuviation has to hit all 6 members of your party for max hate, and it doesn't have a great range.

Well the exuviation shouldn't be hard just gotta do it once at the start so not really that hard to get all 6pt members together. As far as the sleep magic the only problem with them is they take a full 3 seconds too use. Besides if 2 flashes a stun and and jettura when its up ever min lol isnt enough especially when you practically start at the VE cap and and have more CE then a pld who did sentinel invincible theres something wrong lol. That being said if you gear your flashes for macc and can get full duration on them combine with full -50% recast you should be able to keep mobs almost constantly flashed and with occasionally stuns it might be pretty survivable... unfortunately I still need some more merits and to lvl pld sub lol and exuviation... its proving just a tad too difficult to solo.... though I think I have an idea that should work it almost did last time.

I laugh this thread is even here...

Ok ok, I'll give you that one. But only because you seemed to be one of the more competent players on Bahamut :p

Houdini? lol

Also, no more afkmeripos :(

awww

Ugh.. This post is a disgrace especially coming from a 72 WHM. Lrn2endgame then say that please, if you have a NIN not keeping his shadows up or subbing DRK then kick him out of the LS that you're in.

I think I sense a PLD who doesn't have Atonement or ever done a ground king before! Hello /THF. <3

Well I'm not gonna read through 6 pages of heated arguments on which is better for whatever reasons. I'm just gonna put in my two gil and say either tank is conditional for the situation at hand. However, I do think PLD has a much wider range of utilization and function than NIN does, and overall has more tools for controlling enmity which is key.

As a 75 PLD and one of the main tanks of an LS that is actually good I have to say PLD overall is the better tank despite all the arguments in the past posts. Yes a PLD can outDD a NIN in HNM for the love of god, don't ever say a NIN can outDD a PLD.. Maybe in XP parties that is true but not in HNM that's for damn sure, besides who the *** needs a tank in a merit party? I have better use for a PUP and hit 28k/hour then a tank. Anyways besides the point the only time I can say NIN is a better situational tank and this means like super crazed up geared NIN is on Tiamat. Other then that if you need the magic down stuff and ignore shadows, have your PLD come PLD/RDM. Plain and simple, NIN is a job I've yet to see my LS use but anyways if you have an argument against that then prove me a valid statement.

Kanican tanks just about everything nin/drk and makes good arguments why...

Is it 2004?

Yes

Geomancer

OMG I mastered Time Travel!!!

6 pages of stuff im not going to read.

Out of pure reliability i'm going with Pld over Ninja. I Will not bore you with the details.. because honestly, Thats just how it is.

Das, take a look at what's available to different jobs for CE. PLD has not a damn thing besides flash for CE, and even that only gives 180. While all those blu spells I mentioned do have 3 second cast times, there's not a whole heap of spells that are better. I think rdm has 1 spell with the same enmity and 2.5 second cast time.

And yes, keeping VE capped is important, but don't forget that you lose CE everytime you lose a shadow (although re-applying shadows counteracts this loss) or take damage. So you still have to concentrate on keeping CE AND VE capped. VE degrades at 60 a second if I recall correctly, which means that you need to use Actinic Burst, Temporal Shift or Flash every 16.6 seconds to recap VE. Since you can't go over the cap there's no point in using them any more than this (and recast on those three spells will make it hard to anyway), so if your only concern is holding hate then using blank gaze, sheep song etc. whenever you get the chance will help fill up any gaps in your CE from damage that your three VE spells won't, as well as help slow the degradation of your VE to keep that as close to cap as possible too.

It comes up like every month it seems.

As someone mentioned before, its all SITUATIONAL. Hell even a War or SAM can tank as well as a RDM than both jobs at certain points.