The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-05-30 12:48:20
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Alexander.Kryptonitic said: »
Completely right on the 4 hit

Even with capped accuracy, it's pretty foolish to base your gear on the assumption that all hits land on a WS.
 Alexander.Kryptonitic
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By Alexander.Kryptonitic 2013-05-30 13:07:38
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Alexander.Kryptonitic said: »
With a Warrior's level of double attack I'm assuming a DA somewhere in thie WS will account for any missed hits.

4 chances of a DA and a 5% chance of missing at capped accuracy. For the love of god please learn to read past the first sentence of a post before accusing someone of being foolish...

Edit
Figured I'd do some maths so the chance of not landing all hits (missing either the 2nd 3rd or 4th hit) seeing as missing the first screws you regardless is .95^3 so there is 85.7 chance you will be "fine" with these numbers but I agree that is no-where near high enough to justify a gearset. Warrior DA of 10%+ 5% merits + 5% Brutal, 2% Pole Grip (Being nice and not saying Duplus) = 22% This means the chance of there being a double attack during a WS is (1-(.22x.95))^4 which is a 39% chance of atleast 1 additional hit landing on EVERY Upheaval. That means the chance of of missing a hit in the weaponskill AND not having a single extra hit that lands is 1-((1-.857) x (1-.39)) Which gives you a 91% chance of landing the first+3 hits. AND THEN THERE'S *** ZANSHIN which gives your first 3 additional hits a 25% chance of swinging again if no DA procs and you do miss. (.25 x .78 x .05) Which adds on a whole 1% taking your total successful Proc rate to 92% which considering You're only gonna land your 1st hit 95% of the time means you're build won't work 3% of the time. Assuming you WS in 6STP You require 34 stp for your TP build if you assume you're gonna miss a hit. If those are the numbers you want to work from let me know and I'll make a special chart for people who don't wish to be "foolish"
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By Yandaime 2013-05-30 14:09:37
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In order for Upheaval to be successful in Delve, it must have alot of attack behind it.
Therefore, its actually better to use Attack Heavy gear instead of VIT heavy gear when in low-buff situations.

VIT Heavy set:
Oineros Pebble/Bibikki Seashell
Yaotyl Head/Ravager's +2 (Testing done with Ravagers since Yaotyl is still quite rare/hard to get)
Apathy Gorget
Brutal Earring
Moonshade Earring (Attack + TP Bonus)
Ares +1/Twilight Mail
Ares +1/Phorcys
Spiral Ring (Dont feel like buying a 6 VIT Ring when this one is so much cheaper lol)
Terasoul Ring
Oineros Mantle/Shadow Mantle (Darkdays only)
Ele. Belt (Beats out all other options including Windbuffet in high buff situations)
Karieyh Legs
Karieyh Feet

Weapon = Bravura 95 (Dont have the Delve Weapon yet :/ )
Target = Delve Fodder
Food = Sole Sushi
Buffs: Berserk, Aggressor, Hasso, Haste, Boost STR, Minuet x2, March x2, Chaos Roll, Fighters Roll
High Buff - High VIT set DPS:
685.010

In this situation I wanted to find the threshhold at which one could keep a VIT set on with only minimal Attack buffs.
This will make it easier to make a rule for when to have your WS switch to full VIT

-Minuet 1 = Tollerable
-Any further losses in Attack Buffs would result in a Flux where you'd do better DPS switching VIT Pieces for Attack Pieces
Example: Switching Oineros Pebble with Ravager Stone in low buff situations grants extra DPS
Example 2: Switching Oineros Mantle > Atheling Mantle in low buff situations grants extra DPS

Conclusion:
Attack is very important when dealing with Upheaval. Only when you are walking around with Berserk + Minuet + Chaos Roll should you ever use a heavy VIT set.
Any other times, its best to use a hybrid Attack Heavy set against Delve Fodder.
In all scenarios checked with Monten's Spreadsheets, Bravura 95 beat Ukon 90 by 3-5 DPS in low buff situations and 32.64 DPS in the High Buff situation but it doesnt matter because Bloodbath is the main focus at the moment.
My results might not be the absolute best so I advise others to check the spreadsheets themselves with the gear they have to find whats best for them.

With this information, I recommend others to simply make a spellcast rule that says:
When Berserk + Minuet + Chaos Roll is up > Use VIT Set
Any other times > Use Attack/VIT Hybrid
 Sylph.Decimus
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By Sylph.Decimus 2013-05-30 14:24:45
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Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Alexander.Kryptonitic said: »
Completely right on the 4 hit

Even with capped accuracy, it's pretty foolish to base your gear on the assumption that all hits land on a WS.

I agree. X-hits in general aren't very practical though. Get hit once, use a hybrid set when you think you're going to take hate, or throw in some regain and it all goes to ***.
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By R3G1STRY 2013-05-30 14:52:20
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Alexander.Kryptonitic said: »
Figured I'd do some maths so the chance of not landing all hits (missing either the 2nd 3rd or 4th hit) seeing as missing the first screws you regardless is .95^3 so there is 85.7 chance you will be "fine" with these numbers but I agree that is no-where near high enough to justify a gearset.

Warrior DA of 10%+ 5% merits + 5% Brutal, 2% Pole Grip (Being nice and not saying Duplus) = 22% This means the chance of there being a double attack during a WS is (1-(.22x.95))^4 which is a 39% chance of atleast 1 additional hit landing on EVERY Upheaval.

That means the chance of of missing a hit in the weaponskill AND not having a single extra hit that lands is 1-((1-.857) x (1-.39)) Which gives you a 91% chance of landing the first+3 hits. AND THEN THERE'S *** ZANSHIN

Pretty sure Zanshin can't proc on a weaponskill.

Other than that, you're right; WAR has a high enough double attack rate that you're about as likely to miss your initial hit than to not land an extra three (when you have Fighter's Roll).

(I also didn't proofread your math, so I'm just assuming it's correct because it looks in the ballpark of what it should be without Fighter's Roll)
 Alexander.Kryptonitic
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By Alexander.Kryptonitic 2013-05-30 15:03:10
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Taken from Wiki...

Zanshin can activate on missed weapon skills, log will not show damage.
Zanshin can activate on a 0 damage hit.
Zanshin cannot occur in conjunction with Double Attack. One or the other may occur, but not both during the same attack phase (i.e. you will not swing your weapon more than twice in one attack phase).

So I'm taking this as if DA doesn't proc then Zanshin has a chance
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By R3G1STRY 2013-05-30 15:07:05
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BGWiki said:
Zanshin can be activated under the following conditions:
Missed melee attacks
Evaded melee attacks via shadows (Blink, Utsusemi, Third Eye) or Guard
Victim to Counter
Normal Zanshin triggered by the above proc conditions cannot proc on Weapon Skills.
Zanshin hits receive a 34 Accuracy bonus.

Hasso/Seigan and Zanshin:
With Hasso, Zanshin appears to proc at 25% of the normal rate (can be modified by gear).
Ikishoten works on the Double Attacks caused by Zanshin.
Unkai Armor Set +2 set bonus can proc on Hasso Zanshins.
Hasso Zanshins cannot proc on Weapon Skills.
Max rate is 25% with a 100% Zanshin rate.
With Seigan up, Zanshin procs as Counter at approximately 25% of the normal Zanshin rate (can be modified by gear).
These counters are subject to Accuracy checks and do not reward TP.

source

FFXIclopedia talk page (lol...)
 Alexander.Kryptonitic
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By Alexander.Kryptonitic 2013-05-30 15:41:01
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Kool kool, good to learn something new. I will gleefully pull back the 1% extra I gave it in my maths :D
 Sylph.Rafaras
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By Sylph.Rafaras 2013-06-01 06:45:35
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Can eijin update his post about WAR GEAR please. People are telling me that Miki cuisses are better than the Huggin legs +1 and the miki body is better than the Ares+1.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2013-06-01 07:02:14
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Sylph.Rafaras said: »
Can eijin update his post about WAR GEAR please. People are telling me that Miki cuisses are better than the Huggin legs +1 and the miki body is better than the Ares+1.
Base Model no, Fully Upgraded Yes.
And Karieyh Legs beat Huginn unless you need the acc
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 Leviathan.Egonn
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By Leviathan.Egonn 2013-06-02 09:04:48
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Sylph.Rafaras said: »
Can eijin update his post about WAR GEAR please. People are telling me that Miki cuisses are better than the Huggin legs +1 and the miki body is better than the Ares+1.


Things got a lot more confusing for people to say what's better at the moment unless you're talking about fully upgraded items. At this point you have to do the math in the game and on paper and see what works best for you. Use the template, then use your head. Don't ignore what other people say, but take it with a grain of salt.
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 Bahamut.Malothar
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2013-06-09 11:18:26
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Has anyone been putting together a Tojil TP set? Slowly working on one (been working on Geo XD) that keeps capped haste, 5 hit build, and hits 630 base acc.

ItemSet 303884

Miki. Head = Rank 15 Path B
Bloodbath = Rank 2 Path B

Is what I'm at atm. With Hasso's +10 acc it hits 630 on the dot. Lack aug Armada body atm, but even if I had, unless it had an Acc aug as well, it'd come out as less acc, as well as losing my ammo slot to White Tathlum in order to keep 5 hit. Other then Delve boss drops, any improvements anyone knows of? Or even an entirely different set?
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By Yandaime 2013-06-12 09:39:20
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Looks like a really solid set to me, the only thing I can see to pick at is the grip. I think a DA Grip like Duplus/Pole would serve better (all my sets have Pole Grip winning except in abyssea where crits are king and even there, the DPS values are almost tied) other than that, I like that set.
I'm sure are you could throw an Armada into there but like you said, you'd need one with Acc Aug on top of the already frustrating DA3/Stp6 lol so good luck with that xD
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-06-13 01:41:24
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I was using this tonight. (Phorcys head and tyrant's ring before yesterday when I got my first win. Bloodbath is the same delay, so using the same stp in gear isn't an issue).


ItemSet 304291

Used sole sushi+1, had 2 madrigals and hunter's and was at 93.XX% accuracy on Tojil.

Edit: Because I was told to upload it anyway, 13,444 Upheaval on Tojil
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By kenshynofshiva 2013-06-17 08:05:10
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Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
I was using this tonight. (Phorcys head and tyrant's ring before yesterday when I got my first win. Bloodbath is the same delay, so using the same stp in gear isn't an issue).


ItemSet 304291

Used sole sushi+1, had 2 madrigals and hunter's and was at 93.XX% accuracy on Tojil.

Edit: Because I was told to upload it anyway, 13,444 Upheaval on Tojil


May I ask whats your upheaval set looks like?
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-06-17 21:59:42
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kenshynofshiva said: »
May I ask whats your upheaval set looks like?

ItemSet 304840

Rank 15 legs, but they were only like 9 in the picture above. Osode is 2DA and crit damage +3.
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By kenshynofshiva 2013-06-18 08:47:35
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Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
kenshynofshiva said: »
May I ask whats your upheaval set looks like?

ItemSet 304840

Rank 15 legs, but they were only like 9 in the picture above. Osode is 2DA and crit damage +3.

Thanks
 Alexander.Kryptonitic
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By Alexander.Kryptonitic 2013-06-22 06:00:01
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kenshynofshiva said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
kenshynofshiva said: »
May I ask whats your upheaval set looks like?

ItemSet 304840

Rank 15 legs, but they were only like 9 in the picture above. Osode is 2DA and crit damage +3.

Thanks

Solid Upheaval set but I can't figure if the Upheaval was with or without mighty strikes? I'm assuming with because you used an Osode with crit dmg+ but then wouldn't you also use Empy feet+2 for a HUGE crit dmg boost?
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-06-22 06:16:55
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Yeah, I originally posted my non-MS set, then switched the body without thinking about the feet as well. I also used Cavaros mantle.
 Cerberus.Phyrefly
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By Cerberus.Phyrefly 2013-06-22 22:04:38
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Is Karieyh Haubert a suitable substitute for Upheaval, even though it doesn't have vit, until I can get Mikinaak body? I haven't had much luck getting Twilight Mail. If it's not, are there any bodies out there that are better substitutes until I get it? Thanks.
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By innit 2013-06-22 22:37:17
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I think dux is your next best bet.
 Asura.Isiolia
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By Asura.Isiolia 2013-06-22 23:09:49
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innit said: »
I think dux is your next best bet.

I'd say Ares, though Dux is probably the easiest.
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By R3G1STRY 2013-06-23 00:41:34
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Pretty sure if accuracy isn't a big issue (in Upheaval sets it doesn't seem to be) Ares+1 body with Ares+1 hands is better than rank 15 Mikinaak body with Phorcys hands.

Also as far as I can tell, when fully buffed with current gear, Upheaval is better than Ukko's. <---- if someone could double check that... it seems weird to me.

Seriously need more merit slots for weaponskills. I need Shijin and Shoha and have to pick between Upheaval and Resolution. ;_;
 Asura.Daemonarch
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By Asura.Daemonarch 2013-06-23 01:43:41
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Ukon w/o ms up: best=ukkos fury
Ukon with ms up: best=upheaval
Bloodbath axe : best= upheaval (obviously till we can unlock ukkos)
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By R3G1STRY 2013-06-23 02:12:45
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Obviously with Ukonvasara Ukko's is going to do much better because of the ODD. I mean if/when Ukko's is unlocked, Upheaval is still going to be better with any non-Ukon great axe when not receiving crit. rate buffs. If we get the aftermath with the weaponskill, then Ukko's will still be better.

When I plug things into the spreadsheet with these sets:

Setup 1 (Ukko's): Average weaponskill: 4611; DPS: 953.720

Setup 2 (Upheaval): Average Weaponskill: 4961; DPS: 999.911

Target was Delve Fodder with RCB, Berserk, Aggressor, Restraint, Hasso, Haste, Boost STR, March (+5) x2, Minuet (+5) x2, 35% Chaos, 21% Fighter's.
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-06-23 02:15:24
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R3G1STRY said: »
Ares+1 body with Ares+1 hands is better than rank 15 Mikinaak body with Phorcys hands.

I'm sure it's because of the aftermath on Conqueror, but I've never been able to find a set where Ares+1 body and/or hands have any use for Upheaval over the alternatives. Specifically, A well/perfectly augmented p.body still wins on the spreadsheets on pretty much any content for me.
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By R3G1STRY 2013-06-23 02:16:09
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Well, yea. With Conq. AM the DA doesn't do nearly as much.

edit: You're right, my mistake. Valk. plate + Karieyh (or Huginn if you can actually find them) hands further give Upheaval the lead ahead of Ukko's by quite a bit. Corrected it above.

edit2: Yay being tired and forgetting to check things... Ares+1 body+hands are slightly better if you don't need the accuracy (like 2 dps), but in the buff situation posted above, you do actually need the accuracy.

edit3: Wait. No you don't.

edit4: Obviously only Ares+1x2 if you don't have Conq AM.

edit5: FIVE EDITS NEW RECORD YES.
 Cerberus.Phyrefly
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By Cerberus.Phyrefly 2013-06-30 09:20:07
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What are some other Upheaval options for earrings? I haven't finished WoG yet.
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-07-01 17:38:46
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Cerberus.Phyrefly said: »
What are some other Upheaval options for earrings? I haven't finished WoG yet.

I'd probably just use Bladeborn/Steelflash combo until you finish up WotG, which you should work on. Pretty much 100% soloable at this point.
 Cerberus.Phyrefly
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By Cerberus.Phyrefly 2013-07-01 20:59:11
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Ok, cool, that's what I've been using. Yeah I need to work on my missions. Still need to finish ToAU too. ><


What augments did everyone do?
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