(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

Interesting - its been debated a lot, but when do you find Torc to be better than resolution?
I find resolution is insanely better than Torc when WAR or DRK are fully supported.
The only time I've seen insane Torcleavers is with /THF SA on very specific fights.

Based on my spreadsheets and experience, with a Caladbolg and proper sets for both, using Torcleaver gives more DPS (without counting skillchains) than Resolution unless you have Warcry active from a fellow WAR (at which point they're basically even).

Resolution will pull ahead if you both have both Warcry and fully capped PDIF (due to Bolster Frailty or you're fighting trivial mobs), or you have both Warcry and large STR buffs (like SVed Etudes or DS/NV Absorb-STR instead of Drain III). Using Caladbolg for AM3 will still give you a significant DPS boost in these situations over using Ragnarok (according to my spreadsheet, for Warcry + capped PDIF, Resolution spamming with Caladbolg is about 10-11% more DPS than Resolution spamming with Ragnarok).

The Torcleaver set I'm using for reference has +58% WSDMG (counting job gifts), +263 VIT, +177 STR, +240 ATK, +257 ACC, Fotia Gorget/Belt, and Utu Grip.

SAM beats BLU even if all they're doing is Fudo spam. Ability to perform extended self-skillchains is a bonus.

There's a more pressing concern when this situation occurs exactly as described: myopic DDs. If BLU and DRK are the only DDs in the party and skillchain damage is relevant then you should either do (Requiescat->Resolution->CDC/)Expiacion->Scourge->Savage Blade->Torcleaver or Cata/Entropy->Savage Blade->Insurgency->CDC if light skillchains are preferred, or at least alternate CDC and Torcleaver if you don't want to do extended skillchains. Darkness skillchains are a bit more awkward for sword/scythe pairings; CDC/Expi<->Cata/Entropy might work better than longer paths there, and it leaves more room for utility/defensive play.

If skillchain damage isn't relevant then you both spam your best WS, but that doesn't necessarily point to Almace/CDC for BLU (and self-sc output is no longer noteworthy). Sequence/Savage Blade potentially beats Almace/CDC, especially with support. You lose AM, but it's worth the trade (albeit not by much). Ability to form incidental skillchains supersedes the value of self-skillchains and such with 3+ DDs, and this rapidly diminishes in relevance as party size increases.

Another point that illuminates some broader trends in party play for each job: DRK often gets more (or loses less, depending on perspective and WS choice) out of holding TP. Sequence is BLU's ideal mainhand for scaling weaponskills, but it encourages using those weaponskills as quickly as possible since your effective average TP/WS with it, Moonshade, and overflow is already around 2k. DRK's weapon and weaponskill selection is a bit more flexible (especially with greatsword, as Resolution and Torcleaver both scale very well), though both frequently use weaponskills with little or no TP scaling as well.

This line of thinking is also relevant to various other DDs in this discussion. WAR for example: their best weapon when skillchaining with a BLU (and most other jobs favoring frag/dist WS, such as SAM) isn't Ragnarok, it's Chango. This is a significant component of WAR's overall strength: it's not only a strong job for WS spam (especially when SPs are in play), it's a highly flexible skillchain partner.

@ odinz, its really no contest for top end DDs, drk/sam/war are atm the top end of of the group by a large margin. Look past the past 10 pages for torc vs reso.

In the DRK+BLU situation, your buffs aren't going to be good enough to merit spamming reso. You are going to CDC > Torc and vice versa. Reso only shines on DRK when it is buffed out the ***. (lack of innate DA, compared to say WAR)

I still maintain, that in a group setting, Torcleaver is the superior weapon skill when Great Swording. Light skill chains, purposeful or otherwise, beat out Resolutions potential damage lead handily.

Also, Anguta is pretty good. Can certainly give Liberator a run for it's money. Particularly in group settings.

Actually having a RagAG and CaladAG, with near perfect (think my reso set actually is) ws sets I can assure you this is true. I Have been doing Woc/Kirin/Helms spams lately and testing both of them, I cannot get Reso to perform as well as torc against myself, even buffed out the ***. Obviously breaking 2k tp reso will edge out for most, but its marginal and if there was any chance at sc dmg it loses. It really is that big of dps increase, and the fact you can spam torc at 1k tp for very high avg dmg is awesome.

You really have to treat torc as a numbers game. Your not going to hit amazing numbers every ws, but the sheer number you can pump out gives a much high dps with less spikes (however 60k lights feel like great spikes to me :D)

The reason people "think" reso is winning is because they get that one nice 60k dmg reso and feel like the own the parse. Normally though those are done at 3k tp and with so many buffs catered to reso. My torcs at 1k on most endgame content hover in the 25k~ range buffed (this ws is SO consistent its crazy to me), will push to 30k at 1500 and are over 33k once 2ktp+. I can get some nice 50k torcs too at 3k tp also, and i even got a 56k the other day on teles. Reso on the otherhand at 1k I struggle to hit 18k, normally at 2k im around the 30k range (yes torc even avgs better here for me now) and once you start breaking 2250 then reso really jumps over torc for me, and at 3k its obvious that reso buffed will win, however low buffs I always get torcs pulling ahead (assume attack issue on reso).

In a bad mood here, I fully admit, but wtf have you been thinking drk isn't one of the top dd? It's always been in the top tiers. Blu isn't the end all be all ppl say it was, they're a fantastic job especially in low buff situations but as you add PROPER support jobs the 2hders really start to shine. Many ppl have mentioned why blu in a 2hd pt, let's say drk war Sam brd + whm, is going to perform probably less then the other three because if they're smart the support jobs are going to cater to those jobs, suddenly the big advantages blu had start to shrink as the others are also hitting haste cap, have a higher pdif that they can cap on and cap acc. Torc is an amazing ws and a proper SE enhanced reso isn't something you scoff at either. Were you around when the smite update hit? Or when 2hd pdif cap was raised? Like goddamn coming into a drk forum saying this ***

Edit: also of note despite REMA being expected of all dd and rightfully so a montante +1 is a fantastic greatsword as well, the stp and triple attack allow from some great shenanigans and gearing options. Think afania has a post in maybe the war forums showing how it fares, it's no slouch

So my lazy *** just woke up, and I read the past page of debate with drk being a third tier DD that so happens to be below the almighty blu.

This might have been true if you nerf brd back to how they were, remove smite, rebuff the nms to how they were 4 months ago. Even then you still might need to take away greatsword and give drk a dagger.

The only reason blu was doing so good for a while was because the eva all the mobs had and the fact blu was able to buff/heal the party without giving up too much as a DD. Blu was the all around go to job, it was NEVER the best DD. Anyone that has told you that lied to you, if you have that impression in your head it is because you are playing with people that have only been gearing blu and not other DD jobs.

The biggest problem with 2 hand DD jobs wasn't that they can't deal the damage, it was that so many terrible mages couldn't use the damn spell "haste." So while blu not only self haste for capped magical haste but they also had native DW traits when spells were set or had the option of DW gear, all while 2 hand DD got to stand there with their thumb in their *** without haste and then people were so convinced that 2 hand jobs can't deal damage like a blu.

Give a 2 hand DD capped -delay and the game changes. Blu isn't even remotely close, not even in the same ballpark, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say blu is even playing the same game now, especially now that caladolg no longer has the acc issues it once had.

Blu is great in low buff situations, otherwise the bluwagon has been dying for a while now, there are people that still hold on to it like a wet dream, but that is because they don't realize that blu is one of the lower tier DD jobs right now.

Max AG Apoc is FAR stronger than you think, I have terrible scythe ws sets and have pulled out insane dps running apoc. Numbers non-rema blu will probably never see. And those videos you posted are terrible examples of drks ability. Not to mention SR caters to dual wielders in terms of dmg, JA recast vs a spell recast for a buff....

My AG weapon is WAY stronger than other jobs using non-RMEA weapons!

Checkmate, atheists.

FFXI's Unwritten Golden Rule: "Everything is Situational"

I think this is how I can sum up the debate in a nutshell.

Also, please don't get Veddertehtaco in a bad mood. He's my mentor. o3o;

Mentors are better when they are angry, don't you know!

Just update me with what the top DD job is now so we can bar entry to all other jobs and only invite the best one.

Melee GEO, cause *** yeah!

Too much talking, numbers are the only thing that matter. Someone do 100 nms on BLU with BiS gear and then switch jobs to DRK with BiS gear and do 100 more of the same nm and then show the results. That is the only way ppl will understand.


Pfft words...who uses those anyways.

Few off the wall questions regarding xhits:
What's required stp for 4-5 hit caladbolg/rag/montante+1
What's required for 3hit/4hit apoc/Lib?

Got some nice DM augs and strong normal stp augs on reis gears

Obviously a cors Sam roll would come into play, just looking at the tiers, or alternatively if someone could point me to how these are now calculated I'd be grateful

Mcpullish and wonderousgoat were some of the best blu's I have ever seen in the game, capable of breaking 4.5k dps on blu on kirin and more than 4k on WoC. Had Mcpullish and I not dealt with 6 invincible in less than 5 minutes of kirin we would have both walked out that fight with more than 6k dps. That all changed when smite came out, drk got way stronger, and then SE buffed smite even more....

Mcpullish and I went back and forth on who won in parse before all the updates, his blu was extremely well geared vs my drk that still needed (and still does) a lot of work. This was before smite was introduced and all the brd buffs, mob nerfs etc. One day he would win, the next day I would win on the same nm. I don't think I have seen anyone as his equal on blu.

That isn't to say there aren't better blu out there. I just haven't seen a blu deal that much dmg outside mcpullish or wonderousgoat. The thing is, those guys were top geared, and my drk was either keeping up with them or beating them without having top gear long before the massive changes SE has given to the melee roles in the past 4 months.


Can a blu deal dmg? Yes
Can a blu deal very good dmg? Yes
Can a blu maxed out gear/buffs beat a maxed drk with correct buffs assuming they are remotely close to the same level of skill? Not a chance in hell.

3-hit Scythe requires 129 STP.
4-hit Scythe requires 72 STP.

4-hit Montante requires 89 STP.
5-Hit Montante requires 51 STP.

4-hit Calad/Rag requires 105 STP.
5-Hit Calad/Rag requires 64 STP.

EDIT: This is before accounting for TP/WS sets.

I messed with it awhile back the only way I could manage a 3hit on drk was a perfect sam roll and anguta, nothing else would get you there, and literally every slott needed max stp gear in it. Its not worth it for real play.

This is pretty much how all this ends. End of the day the only thing that really matters in FFXI is if your setup can win. If that involves BLUs and DRKs then have at it.

Id also like to add that if you start noticing that you are being left behind or no longer invited to high end content then its probably a sign to lvl/gear/master other jobs lol.

To be honest, x-hits don't seem to be as worth it as they used to be with APR as high as it is these days.

video reminds me of a party of blu's vs drk

GUTS IS THE ULTIMATE DRK; ALL HAIL GUTS

anyone got like a 1k tp to blah, 2k this for non REMA scythes? i feel like i mainly try to go for SC possiblities for the extra damage. mainly using jse augged or deathbane path b.

shameless self bump, ie. i ride cross reaper when im at buffed, insurgency when with swords or reso spam so i can chain lights. quietus is my (admittly sub normal par set) i seem to maintain a steady 5-6k regardless of mobs at 1k spams.

I don't play DRK/WAR/SAM myself - purely THF/BLU/GEO/BRD/COR/RNG
Do you have an updated spreadsheet so I can play around with it?
I do parse everything we do and while we do have an amazing DRK and WAR in our group, he's rarely ahead of our THF or BLU in zergs against anything from T4s to Ambuscade or Omen. I've seen him pull off high 4k DPS but WAR and DRKs lack of survivability is always the issue. In theory sure 2handers might look like they're in a good place but unless they're SAM, whenever they get the attention of what they're fighting they go down pretty quickly.

Those videos were produced before smite, geo nerfs and brd updates.

Also, still not seeing any hope for AG Apoc beating a well augmented double Colada Blu.

I'm not challenging everyone, I could be wrong. But please demonstrate it with something tangible.

No screenshot, but yesterday my group did Schah melee for once.
parse was something like
DRK 27,0%
BLU 24,9%
BLU 18,5%
DRK 17,4%

That's what I sometimes see as well - 2-3% lead here or there, but its not a wide enough margin to be honest. It could be to engaging late, having hate and needing to cast magic fruit/whitewind etc.

And this is an example of what works on paper doesn't always function in practice. Circumstantial variables will always skew a parse under one or multiple arbitrary conditions. However, if we're limiting the variables to just those conditions, we might see a bridge in the gap, with the DRK having a much slighter edge.

In my opinion, though, we're not able to count on robots to be dealing damage, so we can't expect a true replication of what spreadsheets will simulate. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though.