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"Another Mistake Like FF14 Would "Destroy" Square"
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 17:30:16
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Except, it's not. If I go somewhere with 6 friends, it's harder than going there with 6 friends and an AFK person. More people SHOULD make things easier, by a lot. You don't need to add to that..
But it's not, lol.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Sorry, what I do in FFXI has no impact on FFXIV. It illustrates that voidwatch does not require 18 people, as more real players is always preferable to more multiboxes. If you're suggesting I should pay extra subscription fees to 14 to get an acc buff in a game where multiboxing is very difficult.. I don't even know.
Did I suggest that? You're really clutching at straws now.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-28 17:30:41
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »I gave a specific example on the last page, MNK AF body fight with 5. Ifrit with 7. I had bad gear when that happened in Natalan, but it shouldn't really matter. It's adding an extra requirement to a group with less options to begin with, very few people do anything with 7 >IF< 8 are readily available. If they are not, why should the people trying with less have another obstacle to surpass?
IT'S NOT A GODDAM OBSTACLE BECAUSE THE ACCURACY BONUS IS NEVER REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING. I'm seriously finding it annoying to have to keep repeating this.
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 17:34:10
IT'S NOT A GODDAM OBSTACLE BECAUSE THE ACCURACY BONUS IS NEVER REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING. I'm seriously finding it annoying to have to keep repeating this.
I think I'm going to ask my cat what she thought of 14. I'm more likely to get through to her than this clown.
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By Aeyela 2012-11-28 17:39:31
Cerberus.Zigounette said: »Are you here to critics players or construct ff14 debate ?
All your post is me, me, me and others sucks
He's right though. Also, ask yourself the same question. Are you here to construct FF14 debate, or critic his posting?
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Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-28 17:41:36
Cerberus.Zigounette said: »Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Aggro, use combo, repeat. Hm.
I can admit that it's completely possible I'm terrible at FF14 and that's why I couldn't do Natalan well. It doesn't change that those were the circumstances for me and that's *** backwards from a design standpoint.
It's a design flaw if you couldn't play a job properly? k.
Are you here to critics players or construct ff14 debate ?
All your post is me, me, me and others sucks
Says the person that said SE should dismantle "flop content" in XI because you don't personally enjoy it, where others might? Wonderful.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-11-28 17:45:51
Now this now feels like a FFXIV thread!
IMA CUT YOU EIK
[+]
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-28 17:49:25
Now this now feels like a FFXIV thread!
IMA CUT YOU EIK
PS: Seriously, what did I do Pleebo? lol
[+]
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-11-28 17:50:50
Okay, there is one thing you guys seem to be trying to get across to me.
-You can cap accuracy in a 3 person party on all content outside 8-man instances, in some manner or another.
Now, if that's the case, I can understand why you think I'm stupid to dislike the way the buff is applied. However, it's very nonspecific. To do this, do you need nice gear? Multiple melds? Do you have to sacrifce other gear with attack or other beneficial stats? Do you need to use minuet instead of paeon?
Any of these things result in a negative. Despite all your insisting that accuracy doesn't matter, why should a smaller group recieve an additional disadvantage on top of having less people to work with? Groups doing something with 7 are likely doing it because they don't have an 8th readily available, not to try to exclude people. In this game it's very possible that the 10% accuracy(I looked it up! Who knows if that's 10% to your numeric accuracy value or hitrate though.) could make the difference between killing something and not. It'll certainly make it take longer, or in a timed event, possibly ruin your ability to complete it in time.
You've still yet to produce a negative for removing the accuracy buff and increasing everyone's accuracy by that amount.
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 17:51:34
Cerberus.Zigounette said: »Don't you do the same .... ?
I'm not the one throwing stones in a glass house.
Leviathan.Phenomena
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-11-28 17:52:08
Ffxiv is fine, but i think with their future expansions instead of just a new area and new job they should add a new playable race or two. Also charge say... 10 dollars? to be able to change your race. once every 90 days or w/e. granted pc players wouldnt really need that option but consoles would.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-28 17:53:27
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Okay, there is one thing you guys seem to be trying to get across to me.
-You can cap accuracy in a 3 person party on all content outside 8-man instances, in some manner or another.
Now, if that's the case, I can understand why you think I'm stupid to dislike the way the buff is applied. However, it's very nonspecific. To do this, do you need nice gear? Multiple melds? Do you have to sacrifce other gear with attack or other beneficial stats? Do you need to use minuet instead of paeon?
Nice gear? Define nice. GC gear is REALLY easy to get, so I'd say no in that regard. Mutiple melds? Melds for accuracy? LOL no. Sac other gear? The most I ever really "saced" was 5 att for 20 acc, and yes I'll take that trade ALL day, every day. And minuet over paeon? No, not required.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-11-28 17:59:59
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Okay, there is one thing you guys seem to be trying to get across to me.
-You can cap accuracy in a 3 person party on all content outside 8-man instances, in some manner or another.
Now, if that's the case, I can understand why you think I'm stupid to dislike the way the buff is applied. However, it's very nonspecific. To do this, do you need nice gear? Multiple melds? Do you have to sacrifce other gear with attack or other beneficial stats? Do you need to use minuet instead of paeon?
Any of these things result in a negative. Despite all your insisting that accuracy doesn't matter, why should a smaller group recieve an additional disadvantage on top of having less people to work with? Groups doing something with 7 are likely doing it because they don't have an 8th readily available, not to try to exclude people. In this game it's very possible that the 10% accuracy(I looked it up! Who knows if that's 10% to your numeric accuracy value or hitrate though.) could make the difference between killing something and not. It'll certainly make it take longer, or in a timed event, possibly ruin your ability to complete it in time.
You've still yet to produce a negative for removing the accuracy buff and increasing everyone's accuracy by that amount. It's a buff to numeric accuracy not hit rate which makes the buff even more inconsequential.
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 18:02:16
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Okay, there is one thing you guys seem to be trying to get across to me.
-You can cap accuracy in a 3 person party on all content outside 8-man instances, in some manner or another.
Now, if that's the case, I can understand why you think I'm stupid to dislike the way the buff is applied. However, it's very nonspecific. To do this, do you need nice gear? Multiple melds? Do you have to sacrifce other gear with attack or other beneficial stats? Do you need to use minuet instead of paeon?
Any of these things result in a negative. Despite all your insisting that accuracy doesn't matter, why should a smaller group recieve an additional disadvantage on top of having less people to work with? Groups doing something with 7 are likely doing it because they don't have an 8th readily available, not to try to exclude people. In this game it's very possible that the 10% accuracy(I looked it up! Who knows if that's 10% to your numeric accuracy value or hitrate though.) could make the difference between killing something and not. It'll certainly make it take longer, or in a timed event, possibly ruin your ability to complete it in time.
You've still yet to produce a negative for removing the accuracy buff and increasing everyone's accuracy by that amount.
I usually bucked the trend and went with HP on Warrior to live a little longer. You still take the same damage (roughly) and it gave me more time to get Steel Cyclone off and full cure myself. Some friends used Attack or Strength, but nobody I know used Accuracy.
I'm not trying to pooh pooh your opinion; so I don't feel the need to demonstrate negatives. I'm just curious / perplexed that you really think the party buff made such a big difference that you noticed it.
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Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-11-28 18:04:15
It's a buff to numeric accuracy not hit rate which makes the buff even more inconsequential. Have you seen any testing on it? Logically, 10% numeric accuracy would do more than 10% hitrate because numeric accuracy is presumably compared to an evasion stat.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-11-28 18:04:51
Now this now feels like a FFXIV thread!
IMA CUT YOU EIK
PS: Seriously, what did I do Pleebo? lol
Nothing, I just sensed a knife fight brewing but it seems I was a bit premature with that. Don't worry, that ear should grow back.
[+]
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 18:06:38
Nothing, I just sensed a knife fight brewing but it seems I was a bit premature with that. Don't worry, that ear should grow back.
I know this White Mage that might be able to heal that...
[+]
Cerberus.Pleebo
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-11-28 18:13:06
Pssh, good luck finding her.
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-11-28 18:14:08
Best link I could find was https://www.evernote.com/shard/s15/sh/f695102d-9433-418c-83ce-7ae2d05662d6/17668b67ab4207feafba9d11a2516c77 . While the url is questionable, it lists sources and seems very well written.
Quote: ACCURACY
I'll be pretty brief on this, as the data is essentially just "community accepted" from tons of individual parses rather than a true data set. This is probably the only true questionable content in the thread, but they are good GUIDELINES.
I will make a bit of a preachy comment, the community as a whole tends to undervalue ACC way too much. In every other MMO Accuracy to the cap is considered the most valuable stat in the game point for point - there's no magic break points in what is a good and what's not (other than the cap). VERY little testing has been done on ACC other than people shooting to be "mostly" accurate. There's also TP gain to consider, which is exceptionally hard to model, but again - I want to stress that Accuracy is incredibly important - and if you want to look at it opportunity stat wise, check out my other thread (since it does have a ~2:1 value to attack power by weapon slot). To put it simply Accuracy matters and Sibolds sucks - stop using it.
Generally everything but Garuda 385-400 seems fine.
Garuda requires almost 480 acc to not miss. Now if that's worth it or not depends on your gear set. You should probably eat ACC food though.
BRD/ARC have HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE high accuracy. They need very little and appear to be calculated differently (high DEX doesn't hurt them either).
3 DEX gives 2 ACC. If you're rocking 385 accuracy with the 10% buff, you have 350 without it. That's 35 accuracy lost.. Explorer's Choker, one of your Electrum Ring +1s, and then some(pardon the gear example if outdated, haven't played in a while).
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 18:17:07
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Best link I could find was https://www.evernote.com/shard/s15/sh/f695102d-9433-418c-83ce-7ae2d05662d6/17668b67ab4207feafba9d11a2516c77 . While the url is questionable, it lists sources and seems very well written.
Quote: ACCURACY
I'll be pretty brief on this, as the data is essentially just "community accepted" from tons of individual parses rather than a true data set. This is probably the only true questionable content in the thread, but they are good GUIDELINES.
I will make a bit of a preachy comment, the community as a whole tends to undervalue ACC way too much. In every other MMO Accuracy to the cap is considered the most valuable stat in the game point for point - there's no magic break points in what is a good and what's not (other than the cap). VERY little testing has been done on ACC other than people shooting to be "mostly" accurate. There's also TP gain to consider, which is exceptionally hard to model, but again - I want to stress that Accuracy is incredibly important - and if you want to look at it opportunity stat wise, check out my other thread (since it does have a ~2:1 value to attack power by weapon slot). To put it simply Accuracy matters and Sibolds sucks - stop using it.
Generally everything but Garuda 385-400 seems fine.
Garuda requires almost 480 acc to not miss. Now if that's worth it or not depends on your gear set. You should probably eat ACC food though.
BRD/ARC have HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE high accuracy. They need very little and appear to be calculated differently (high DEX doesn't hurt them either).
3 DEX gives 2 ACC. If you're rocking 385 accuracy with the 10% buff, you have 350 without it. That's 35 accuracy lost.. Explorer's Choker, one of your Electrum Ring +1s, and then some(pardon the gear example if outdated, haven't played in a while).
I don't think you're getting the point. It's nothing to do with how much your accuracy does or does not go up or down by. It's to do with the fact that with or without the party buff you should not have had accuracy issues.
And I'm not clicking that link.
By Lye 2012-11-28 18:17:30
There's hardly any content around that's 1. Soloable and 2. Relevant. You can lowman any emperyean. I have to help three other people, wasting 3 days of MY playtime for a standard weapon? You could get a mule. I have to pay for additional subscriptions so I could progress gradually in a 10 & 1/2 year old game? Point of a game is to be enjoyable to the majority of players. People aren't quitting FFXI because it's enjoyable. TERA is a fantastic example of a MMO gone right. SE needs to get the hint that waiting three hours (hyperbole) for an event to start is ****ing terrible in thought and practice. There are complaints about TERA too. RNG's, purchasable rewards, and lack of end-game content are what friends have commented on.
No MMO is without negative feedback. Purchasable rewards are optional services which aren't required for playstyle or enjoyment. Any complaints about optional services are irrelevant at best. Forcing me to shell out cash for an extra subscription for subpar content most lost interest in when another game lets me use gold for the same thing, well, you get the point.
You addressed 1 of the 3 complaints listed above only to say that the opinions of others are "irrelevant."
Don't worry though, when TERA goes free-to-play in a year or so, FFXIV will be ready.
Until then, quit saying "X is an MMO done right" when it's been out for less than two years.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-28 18:28:56
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Best link I could find was https://www.evernote.com/shard/s15/sh/f695102d-9433-418c-83ce-7ae2d05662d6/17668b67ab4207feafba9d11a2516c77 . While the url is questionable, it lists sources and seems very well written.
Quote: ACCURACY
I'll be pretty brief on this, as the data is essentially just "community accepted" from tons of individual parses rather than a true data set. This is probably the only true questionable content in the thread, but they are good GUIDELINES.
I will make a bit of a preachy comment, the community as a whole tends to undervalue ACC way too much. In every other MMO Accuracy to the cap is considered the most valuable stat in the game point for point - there's no magic break points in what is a good and what's not (other than the cap). VERY little testing has been done on ACC other than people shooting to be "mostly" accurate. There's also TP gain to consider, which is exceptionally hard to model, but again - I want to stress that Accuracy is incredibly important - and if you want to look at it opportunity stat wise, check out my other thread (since it does have a ~2:1 value to attack power by weapon slot). To put it simply Accuracy matters and Sibolds sucks - stop using it.
Generally everything but Garuda 385-400 seems fine.
Garuda requires almost 480 acc to not miss. Now if that's worth it or not depends on your gear set. You should probably eat ACC food though.
BRD/ARC have HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE high accuracy. They need very little and appear to be calculated differently (high DEX doesn't hurt them either).
3 DEX gives 2 ACC. If you're rocking 385 accuracy with the 10% buff, you have 350 without it. That's 35 accuracy lost.. Explorer's Choker, one of your Electrum Ring +1s, and then some(pardon the gear example if outdated, haven't played in a while).
Um that 480 accuracy bit is also the biggest crock of ***I've ever heard. You can't even really get accuracy that high without sacrificing every stat mod. You DEFINITELY did not need 480 to hit garuda. Ever.
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-11-28 18:35:47
I didn't write that article, I just found it googling around. By the sound of it though, 480 accuracy is 100% hitrate. The author even stated that it may not be worth the immense sacrifice.
However, if your accuracy needs to be that high to cap, it's a fair bet that you're losing significant hitrate by dropping the buff.
 Valefor.Savain
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Valefor.Savain 2012-11-28 18:36:57
You missed the point where ingame gold can be redeemed for monthly subscriptions. TERA is already free to play.
I don't know what a RNG is.
There is no lacking in EG content, but players who have completed their T14 weapons would be bored. Good to know they're releasing T15 weaponry soon though. Not in 5 months.
And yes, the opinion of anyone who deems optional, game-not-limiting, optional items as a point of contention is irrelevant [note, only applies to their opinion on this specific matter]. That's the real life equivilent of saying "This air upsets me." The items sold are accessories, building upon the uniqueness of your character. Again, optional, game-not-limiting, accessories.
I don't know how after being able to skillfully control a character mid-battle anyone could say "Hey, I love locking on and pressing buttons and waiting for other people before I can make any progress myself". But, as an opinion, you're more than welcome to it.
This, however, falls short of the original point I made. A game that bottlenecks you into time consuming, irrelevant, and usually intelligence diminishing activities is not fun for me and I'd wager a better part of the community would agree [even if they still log in to AFK].
By Aeyela 2012-11-28 18:37:04
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »However, if your accuracy needs to be that high to cap, it's a fair bet that you're losing significant hitrate by dropping the buff.
But it doesn't need to be that high. Holy *** I give up, you're doing my head in.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-28 18:37:59
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »I didn't write that article, I just found it googling around. By the sound of it though, 480 accuracy is 100% hitrate. The author even stated that it may not be worth the immense sacrifice.
However, if your accuracy needs to be that high to cap, it's a fair bet that you're losing significant hitrate by dropping the buff.
That's WAY over capped. Like by a ton. The most you need as a melee is like 450 or so WITH every possible buff, including food and minuet, and that really was only for like 1 mob in the game. Gross overestimate is gross. My mnk rocks 390 and I'm fine on all content basically(that's solo without food)
By Lye 2012-11-28 18:43:25
A game that bottlenecks you into time consuming, irrelevant, and usually intelligence diminishing activities is not fun for me and I'd wager a better part of the community would agree even if still log in to AFK.
RNG = Random Number Generator.
Perhaps you'd like to explain how you go about getting T14 weapons to the rest of the group.
Oh wait.... it's EXACTLY what you just described.
By Lye 2012-11-28 18:47:49
Furthermore, your opinion of a game doesn't make it "an mmo done right."
On second thought, it's immaterial whether or not you like TERA or see the hypocrisy in your statement. This thread isn't about TERA or about you.
Carry on with the acc discussion.....
Valefor.Savain
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Valefor.Savain 2012-11-28 18:48:37
I don't know what RNG would apply to here, unless we're talking about loot, whos distribution is limited by class.
If your point in seriousness is that any task in any game is time consuming, irrelevant, and usually intelligence diminishing, then maybe you're not a gamer.
Comparing Emperyean, Relic, Neo-Nyzul, or MYTHIC requirements to a T14 weapon in TERA is the difference between weeks of timed mobs, daily runs, 150 mil, and 600 mil to one week of semi-serious, very enjoyable gameplay.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/27/yoshida-another-mistake-like-ff14-would-destroy-square
http://kotaku.com/5963155/new-final-fantasy-xiv-director-talks-about-what-went-wrong-with-the-original
Naoki Yoshida has revealed that he feels another mistake like Final Fantasy XIV would end up "destroying" Square Enix.
Speaking with Kotaku, the game's producer and director explained that his team is fully aware of the pressure on them to salvage the brand's reputation following the poor reception the MMO received. He asserted that this was why they were determined not to launch the revamped Final Fantasy XIV - A Realm Reborn until they feel the game is ready.
"We won't make a mistake like FFXIV again," he said. "If we did, it would be like at the level of destroying the company."
Final Fantasy XIV launched back in 2010 to a negative reaction from fans and critics alike, resulting in Square Enix CEO Yoichi Wada saying "the Final Fantasy brand has been greatly damaged."
Just why the game didn't fare particularly well has been the subject of much scrutiny over the last couple of years, but now Yoshida himself has waded in with his thoughts. Filling both the producer and director roles for the game since December 2010, when the previous producer of the game resigned and left the company, he's now revealed he had qualms about the state of the game even before he was involved with it.
"When I heard that it was going to go on sale as planned, I thought, that will probably be a big mistake," he admitted, before saying he believes the fundamental error made was that lessons weren't learned from other MMOs. The original team supposedly were just trying to make an MMO that felt different from Final Fantasy XI, which Yoshida believes was a mistake.
"I think it would've been good if they tried seeing what happened if they turned World of Warcraft into Final Fantasy. So, because they tried only to make something that was 'different from FFXI,' they ended up with not much of anything.
"They should have said, 'Hey you, go play WoW for a year [for inspiration].'
"Unless you are a genius, you cannot make something completely new from nothing."
There's still no set launch date for the revamped Final Fantasy XIV, though it's expected to appear around the middle of 2013. The PlayStation 3 version is also still in development, with more details expected on that soon.
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