Presidental Debate One

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Presidental Debate One
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2012-10-04 13:54:09
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Why is that physicians and public health scientists arn't slamming ACA? .

Because their personal incomes haven't been negatively effected by it yet.

On topic, the red tie isn't working for me.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 13:55:41
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
The government's money is MY money, if i did not make it, the government would not have it. It is 100% my business what is done with it.

The government's roads, power grid, waterlines, sanitation, civil society, emergency services, parks, education systems, regulated economy, internet, phone services, healthcare, standard of living in general are yours to. If you didn't pay taxes to the government, none of these would be possible.
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 Lakshmi.Deces
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By Lakshmi.Deces 2012-10-04 13:57:52
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Asura.Squal said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
As for the healthcare issue under the constitution, is it not one of the greatest points that all American Citizens have the right to Life and Liberty?

If that's true, wouldn't privatizing healthcare negate both aspects by limiting one's right to essential life-saving healthcare?

Having Universal Access to healthcare should be everyone's liberty, not just to those that can afford it.

Yea, you're not misinterpreting that at all. They certainly meant by "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" that the government should take care of all health issues its citizens may encounter. That makes sense, being it was written during a time where a common cold could kill your *** and the life expectancy was about 35.

I bet by pursuit of happiness they meant we should all get $1,000,000 when we're born. Yea, having $1,000,000 should be everyone's liberty, not just to those that earn it.

Since when do liberals quote the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution anyways, thought you guys didn't believe in those?
You don't know what your talking about, it was "life, liberty, and property" or at least it was until the libetards changed it. personally Id rather pursue happiness on my property, but seeing as libtards don't believe in property rights and favor destructive taxation of such achievements...
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By daxxed 2012-10-04 13:57:55
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
daxxed said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
daxxed said: »
and the truth finally comes out.. What's good for me is good for me.

even if its at the expense of everyone.. I think its pretty obvious no matter what happens pre existing conditions will disappear by either president. So we don't have to destroy america for you after all.
Why is that physicians and public health scientists arn't slamming ACA? Care to answer that one?

Seems like everyone who is slamming it has little or no background on how public health ACTUALLY functions, and circumvents basic concepts of epidemiology.

I'm at a hospital everyday so go pound.
Emptying bed pans does not qualify you as a health professional.

I don't want to brag but my accreditation isn't in bed pans. That's for hippie trolls such as yourself.
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By Artemicion 2012-10-04 14:00:36
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The level of delusion and ad hominem in this thread is too damn high.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2012-10-04 14:01:01
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Why is that physicians and public health scientists arn't slamming ACA? .
Because their personal incomes haven't been negatively effected by it yet. On topic, the red tie isn't working for me.

Funny; the doctors I know agree they'd gladly take a 20-30% pay cut to never have to deal with trying to get an insurance company to pay for something ever again.

(also, backing up, premiums are rising but only about 4% on average in 2011 [which is significant] so if your premiums went up 20% i would submit you are the victim of precision *** and if the free market is going to work you need to find a new insurer right goddamn now

which will be made significantly easier for you thanks to the ACA, d'ohohohoho)
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-10-04 14:01:15
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
But really, are you actually satisfied with the efficiency and quality of our government?

It never got gridlocked enough for me...

A lot of people complain about obstructionism but I am all for it regardless of which party is blocking the road. Of course I am a cynical old fool that doesn't believe anyone can do anything right in the us when it comes to politics or foreign policy. Or money.

As an example... Have any of the usa progressive liberal redistribution of wealth people out there ever divided the total word wealth by the global population? It's 42 trillion divided by 7 billion and it comes out to $545 dollars a year if we could somehow magically do it without incurring any costs in the distribution process.

I understand redistribution of wealth SOUNDS good to you, take some money from wealthy people and give it to poor people, but it doesn't work that way. We can't just take it from the "1%" and give it to ourselves and call it a fair and equitable day.

YOU are the 1%, compared to the rest of the world. If you are reading this post you would be taking a very savage pay cut.

Keep in mind the average american spends $6,500 just on food
That's not really what is meant by wealth redistribution. Wealth redistribution, in the non-politically loaded sense, occurs naturally in a capitalistic system. For example, workers are paid by capitalists to do labor, thus allowing wealth to redistribute from the upper bracket to a lower one. The problem we are facing today is that this movement of wealth has slowed or stagnated and wealth is now accumulating in the upper echelons while being removed from the lower.

When Obama or some other progressive-minded individual talks about wealth redistribution, they don't mean to forcibly take people's fortunes and rain it down on the general populace. They mean they want to stimulate that natural movement of wealth once again, thereby encouraging growth at all levels.

It's a common misconception that really bugs me.
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 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2012-10-04 14:03:13
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-10-04 14:06:12
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daxxed said: »

I don't want to brag but my accreditation isn't in bed pans. That's for hippie trolls such as yourself.
Oh come on, you left yourself wide open for that one. Add validity to your arguments through citations or logic and not through self-proclaimed and unverifiable accreditation that anyone can lie about.
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2012-10-04 14:06:20
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Because their personal incomes haven't been negatively effected by it yet.

On topic, the red tie isn't working for me.
Probably more-so because they have a grasp of how disease works oh and that silly thing called the "physician's oath."

daxxed said: »
I don't want to brag but my accreditation isn't in bed pans. That's for hippie trolls such as yourself.
Considering you haven't rebutted my arguments on the the epidimiological ramifications. Or attempted to rebut this example:

Quote:
I inoculate 10 people with a bacterial infection. I only treat one individual in that group of 10. Those 10 who are in contact, then reinfect the one that has been treated. Over the course of time, evolution intervenes, and you now have a drug resistant strain- in layman's terms your costing the guy who can pay for health coverage more money by not providing health coverage to the others.

Your "accreditation" doesn't have much credibility tbh.
 Lakshmi.Deces
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By Lakshmi.Deces 2012-10-04 14:06:28
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Bismarck.Elanabelle said: »
You left out about 7 "uhhs" in that statement he made.
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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 14:09:54
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Lakshmi.Deces said: »
You left out about 7 "uhhs" in that statement he made.
If you keep saying it, maybe it'll become true.

Maybe.
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By 2012-10-04 14:10:37
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Post deleted by User.
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By Artemicion 2012-10-04 14:12:54
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Lakshmi.Deces said: »
You left out about 7 "uhhs" in that statement he made.

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By volkom 2012-10-04 14:13:10
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whooosh so glad i'm not living there
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 14:14:05
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The *** is this? Posting executions, because someone disagrees with your position.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-10-04 14:14:57
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Deces rhymes with feces, therefore your arguments are invalid.

(Hey, it makes as much sense as his posts.)
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2012-10-04 14:15:12
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
But really, are you actually satisfied with the efficiency and quality of our government?

It never got gridlocked enough for me...

A lot of people complain about obstructionism but I am all for it regardless of which party is blocking the road. Of course I am a cynical old fool that doesn't believe anyone can do anything right in the us when it comes to politics or foreign policy. Or money.

As an example... Have any of the usa progressive liberal redistribution of wealth people out there ever divided the total word wealth by the global population? It's 42 trillion divided by 7 billion and it comes out to $545 dollars a year if we could somehow magically do it without incurring any costs in the distribution process.

I understand redistribution of wealth SOUNDS good to you, take some money from wealthy people and give it to poor people, but it doesn't work that way. We can't just take it from the "1%" and give it to ourselves and call it a fair and equitable day.

YOU are the 1%, compared to the rest of the world. If you are reading this post you would be taking a very savage pay cut.

Keep in mind the average american spends $6,500 just on food
That's not really what is meant by wealth redistribution. Wealth redistribution, in the non-politically loaded sense, occurs naturally in a capitalistic system. For example, workers are paid by capitalists to do labor, thus allowing wealth to redistribute from the upper bracket to a lower one. The problem we are facing today is that this movement of wealth has slowed or stagnated and wealth is now accumulating in the upper echelons while being removed from the lower.

When Obama or some other progressive-minded individual talks about wealth redistribution, they don't mean to forcibly take people's fortunes and rain it down on the general populace. They mean they want to stimulate that natural movement of wealth once again, thereby encouraging growth at all levels.

It's a common misconception that really bugs me.

How are they planning to do that exactly?
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By Artemicion 2012-10-04 14:17:06
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
How are they planning to do that exactly?

Tax and regulative incentive would be a start.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2012-10-04 14:18:28
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Artemicion said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
How are they planning to do that exactly?

Tax and regulative incentive would be a start.

How is tax not forcibly taking?
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 14:19:30
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Because it's your legal obligation. Unless you want to make the argument that all legal obligations are forcibly taking, which I don't think you want to do.
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By Artemicion 2012-10-04 14:21:09
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Artemicion said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
How are they planning to do that exactly?

Tax and regulative incentive would be a start.

How is tax not forcibly taking?

Taxes are arbitrarily dictated by law, which of course can be altered as per executive branch policies, but what I meant was the conditions and standards within those laws that would give incentive to actions that would be conducive to benefiting the lower echelons of wealth.

Not outsourcing work to offshore or third world countries would be an example.
 Asura.Squal
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By Asura.Squal 2012-10-04 14:22:22
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Artemicion said: »
Lakshmi.Deces said: »
You left out about 7 "uhhs" in that statement he made.


So let me get this straight, a conservative says Fa-got (blocking one letter makes it ok, right?) and hes an insensitive, bigoted, homophobe, but a liberal does it and its ok, maybe even funny?

Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Deces rhymes with feces, therefore your arguments are invalid.

(Hey, it makes as much sense as his posts.)

Really.. really? Why not just call him a doodiehead next time, about as mature.
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 Sylph.Kandu
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By Sylph.Kandu 2012-10-04 14:22:43
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Lakshmi.Deces said: »
It was "life, liberty, and property" or at least it was until the libetards changed it.

Right, the greatest liberal of all, Thomas Jefferson...
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 14:23:14
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While the rates could be arbitrary, they aren't. The law isn't arbitrary, because there is thought put into how the law works, and how it affects the economy.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2012-10-04 14:23:21
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oic

we are just increasing their legal obligation, that does sound better than stealing...
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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 14:24:13
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Asura.Squal said: »
So let me get this straight, a conservative says Fa-got (blocking one letter makes it ok, right?) and hes an insensitive, bigoted, homophobe, but a liberal does it and its ok, maybe even funny?
you're quite free to report the post.
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By Artemicion 2012-10-04 14:24:54
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You're more than welcome to quote me where I indicated or said he was one or more of the following: "Insensitive", "Bigoted", or "Homophobe."
But you'll find it quite difficult because I didn't imply or say any of those things. Rather the picture was stating the nature or trend of his posts throughout this thread.

But if you want to believe I posted that simply because he's Republican then by all means. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-10-04 14:25:18
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
oic

we are just increasing their legal obligation, that does sound better than stealing...
If you want to view all tax as theft from private citizens, be my guest. I'm not going to change your opinion, if you want to ignore all the services and protections that government provides.
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