The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

I don't like to "gimp" jobs. I'm not planning on making a REM for offhand usage, and not currently expecting to buy HQ Su3, but I might. Thinking I might make NIN and MNK as lulz projects and see how viable I can make them, which means Ryuo/Kenda sets have two uses. And what's the meaning of gil if not to spend it? I have everything else for my mains, so if I enjoy the way the jobs work I might do it. I'll make all the JSE that has any real use, chapters are easy to get if I'm not already max on them, and JSE upgrading is cheap and I have nothing else to farm Omen cards on. May even trade in some other job cards lol.

Good to know I'm not really missing anything gameplay-wise. I just need gear to make Ten the stronger WS. Don't have a WSD cape, just one that's DEX/ACC/ATT/DA for Shun. I'll be able to get two more capes this month (have one unenchanted and haven't done ambuscade this month) so figure str/wsd for that? And maybe like...fast cast for 3rd?

Also, I'm quite sad my Moonlight rings aren't viable for NIN.

If you're comparing to the Twashtar offhand situation of THF, I don't think Kannagi is a nice OH for Ninja.
Maybe if Blade: Hi was this stellar WS but it's not.

HQ Ryuo Hands is not BiS not even for Blade: Hi (which is no longer the paradygm WS anyway). Mummu+2 wins with set bonus, and it's arguably so close without that Ryuo+1 hands for Hi is not worth the gil imo. Don't think it shines for any other NIN WSs.

HQ Kendatsuba though, I forgot to mention, it's quite an awesome set. I think Pchan, Comeatmebro and other people already exposed its pros and cons in multiple threads (MNK one?).
Not sure how body fares compared to Adhemar HQ, but you have to keep in mind at capped Haste Adhemar's DW+7 is a small DPS loss.
Kendatsuba HQ might win there, I haven't tested it myself.
The whole set presents a virtual DPS increase compared to other option thanks to the huge Meva.
If you don't have to spend precious second enfeebled by paralyze, amnesia and stuff like that, it will of course result in higher DPS.
In situations like those going with HQ Kenda can actually become a DPS boost even if the Spreadsheet suggests slightly lower numbers compared to perf Herc or HQ Adhemar.

Regardless, my list wasn't meant to be as "orders" to strictly follow.
I just gave my very personal impression on the JSE pieces which are useful for NIN.
Some offer really marginal pros (i.e. non directly related to the DPS, if that's all you care about), but if by any mean you intend to get them I don't see why not! I got a few "useless" pieces myself just because I like them :)

Granted that WSD, like you said, will produce a leap, you don't really *need* anything in gear (other than Heishi maybe) to make it better than other options in the majority of situations, if you're superbuffed (i.e. att-capped or very close to that compared to the current target)
In such a situation you should see Ten go over Shun even without any specific item.
It's only gonna get better with lots of WSD stuff of course.

Cape-wise I have one I use for TP and Shun (same as yours) and a STR/WSD for Ten.
I also use it for Hi (which I remind you it's a WS you shouldn't use unless for SC or specific purpose) but if you want you could get an AGI/WSD specifically for Hi.
I also have a Mab/Macc cape I use for ninjutsu and nuking, and an FC+10 Cape I use for precasting stuff.

If you wanna get a Hi cape, I would make it the last one you get.

I'm thinking 2nd cape will be STR/WSD, 3rd will be HP/EVA/FC, 4th will be MACC/MAB (INT useful for NIN nukes?) and that's...probably it. We'll see if I like NIN that much to max Hi and the sort.

And yeah I have a full Turms+1 set just for that godly Meva, and the NIN set is far better for TPing in, so that's really solid to look at. Just bought some Ea+1 for the GEO though, and at like 13 NIN JP, so have some time before I make that plunge with Kenda.

INT increases Nuke damage, wether or not it increases macc of nukes and enfeebles it's... unknown, sorta. Probably?

If I recall on my "nuking" cape I used the fourth slot for additional INT. On my "FC" cape I used the fourth slot for additional macc (and I also use it for enfebble midcast, of course).

All this talk about ninjutsu enfeebles and nuking is kinda moot though, they're novelty at best. They are a dps loss and in the majority of situations there is no real practical use for them.
They shine in some very nichey thing here and there. I like to gear for them because I... well, I like it! And because I'm OCD lol
Most of us NINs do it for that I suppose more than for the real practical leap of utility they bring.

Well I play COR+RUN, so I already have a solid amount of MAB gear NIN will be able to utilize, so I figure I'll put something together for it. Though most of my MAB gear has WSD attached to it from COR, technically Lunge should benefit from magic burst damage bonus and the sort...

A good nuking set's pretty useful to have around for CP (if it isn't capped) and Omen.

I was happy when I could hit the 30k Nuking objective. Swelling with NIN pride while the mages chuckled.

While I wholly support pushing to get a nuking set, it's probably not top of your priority list unless you so happen to have the gear readily handy.

I need to revisit my sets. It's pretty good as-is but maybe i'm missing something. Are you hitting 30k with malaise or without? On Apex I can hit about 16k-22k with futae. Was wondering what numbers people are hitting with buffs to be able to clear omen objective. I think I can do it, just wondering if malaise/acume/int etc was up. And can you hit 15k non MB objective?

Post your set if you can.

That's with Malaise(Idris) and Futae + fresh Innin. And the set is very similar to the set suggested in the OP.

Pieces that get swapped out for me during burst:
Body: Samnuha Coat - MBurst DMG II 8
Feet: Hachiya Kyahan +3 - MBurst DMG 10
Head: Mochizuki Hatsuburi +1 - San Spell DMG+/Merit
Hands: Iga Tekko +2 - Futae +24%
Rings: Mujin Band + Locus Ring - 5% Burst + 5% Burst II

My herculean Legs are MAB49 Macc20 from DM aug. As well I'm always offhanding Ochu as that's my preferred offhand. So ultimately during burst of San spell with Futae, the set looks like this:

ItemSet 356385

It's been a little while, but I think I can hit the 15k objective with Futae, Innin, and x2 Malevolences sans GEO buffs.

Ok so I have the same exact set minute futae hands and ammo. Two capped ochu. But malaise makes a huge difference

As Kyte said, I have to swap to Malevolences outside of bursts.

Without Malaise I'm not hitting the 30k. It ends up in the upper 20's.

If you guys think it's possible to do, you think Nin could solo(3box in my case) but solo DD Kin?
Did Gin last night got him to 17% probably could have killed but I was too slow healing chuchu after zero hour then Malign right after at 50% and had to tank and try to DD so I could probably do it again next time but when I tried Kin it was just too slow because the windows for damage are so limited I only got him to 73% before timing out if I remember

Quick question. At what point does wsd beat out agi? I am gearing up nin but I do not have access to sup3 yet. Would mummur legs +1 with 41 agi beat out Hizamaru Hizayoroi +2 with 24 agi but wsd 7%?

I haven't tested with bursts but messing around on lvl 1 mobs I had the unity ammo beat out P.tathlum every time.

Have you tested on the spreadsheet?
It kinda depends on the target, your buffs, if you're att capped or not etc.

Think Mummu+1 was winning iir, even if barely, over Hiza+2.
Supposing I'm right, Mummu+2 should win easily.
You should doublecheck on the spreadsheet though because I'm not 100% sure.

I think you would have better luck with Kei. Use ninjutsu to break the eyes? I still haven't gotten to test Migawari on Dancing Fuller's as I flubbed it. Kin I don't think nin has the burst to complete as the sole dps.

While I often get Mummu+2 legs winning, I've spreadsheeted several fairly realistic situations where Hiza+2 appears to be the better choice. Depends on target/buffs, and those two are clearly the contenders, but it's not that crazy to find Hiza+2 on top. Capped attack, Mummu+2 are likely to win. In some situations I've set up, the difference between adding just one attack buff like a Chaos Roll or Minuet - and changing nothing else - will change the outcome.

Mummu+1 do suffer a bit missing out on that extra AGI/DEX from set bonus that the +2/ring get, which is significant and leads to Hiza+2 having a better chance of beating Mummu+1, or at least it's really close. Unless you are really confident you're always getting capped attack from buffs, I'd prob just stick to Hiza+2 until upgrading Mummu Kecks +2 and being able to take advantage of pairing them with the ring and other Mummu+2 gear for the set bonus AGI/DEX (in addition to the higher stats on the +2 piece itself).

I've actually been tinkering a LOT with Hi in the past week or two in preparation for eventual completion of project: Afterglow my 90 Kannagi. HMP/Dross almost down, but OMG why does everyone else suddenly decide they want boulders at the exact same time I did... Point being, I've had some motivation to tweak my sets more and have done some thinking and playing with things since the previous discussion from a page or two ago.

I still wouldn't really suggest using Hi very much without Kannagi unless you have some particular SC purpose or really need a crit WS for some reason. Otherwise, stick to Shun/Ten, and Metsu for Kikoku. I'm just echoing what Sechs already said near the bottom of the last page, but it was good advice. Anyway, when using Empy, Hi can still be rather strong and the Kannagi/Hi combo can really compete in some situations.

Something like the below is my newly updated suggested default Blade: Hi set. As always, target/buffs/other gear certainly affects things, so this isn't the 100% correct in all situations set:
ItemSet 356506
Notes, mostly on alternatives if not capping attack:
* I'm getting Adhemar Bonnet +1 beating out Hachiya+3 in many scenarios (but certainly not all). NQ Adhemar won't beat AF+3, though it likely will beat AF+2 until you upgrade that (but upgrade it, it's clearly the best re-reforged JSE piece we've received so far).
* For neck, sometimes I get Caro Necklace beating Fotia. Really down to buffs/target, but they can be close. That being said, even in situations where they're nearly even I'll give the edge to Fotia due to the occasionally not consuming TP effect.
* Lugra+1 can be BiS ear during dusk-dawn. Lugra NQ/Brutal/Ishvara all tend to be very close. Out of that pack, I lean toward Ishvara since WSD gives more consistent results than multiattack (even if average comes out the same, there's more WS to WS variance), and no chance of dawn-dusk mistakes/lua issues/whatever. If you never want to bother with the time restriction or GS rules, like me, Brutal/Ishvara is fine.
* If not attack capped, Grunfeld Belt is likely better than Windbuffet+1 or Fotia. If capped, prob Windbuffet+1 > Fotia > Grunfeld.
* NQ Yetshila is fine, still easily the best over any other alternative

On a sort of different note:
I made a lot of updates today to the most recent spreadsheet that Langly last cleaned up.
* Added quite a bit of gear (and deleted some really outdated stuff to make it easier to work with)
* Added set bonuses for Abjuration+1, Mummu+2/ring, and AF+2/+3 stuff, etc.
* Fixed a few errors with gear values (some of the abjuration stuff, in particular)
* Blade: Shun feels like it isn't modeled correctly (damage is too low, my Metsu shouldn't be smoking it on spreadsheet to the degree it does - that doesn't square with my actual game experience where they're relatively close). I'm trying to figure out what's wrong: one issue was that the spreadsheet I was using had Shun set up as a single hit WS; I fixed that to reflect the additional 4 hits, pretty significant issue - but I still don't think it's totally right as far as Shun goes.

Anyway, will finish polishing it up and post it publicly fairly soon. Will prob do that shortly after the update next week, might as well include any new items (Relic head +2/+3) and any other unexpected surprises.

The one posted in the node, on my dropbox, has Mummu +2 set bonuses and Adhemar +1 set bonuses. What gear did you need to put in? I haven't added the Mochizuki Head/Hands/Feet yet as they haven't had any impact on cycle time.

What values are wrong on herculean/adhemar/ryuo? Someone else stated values were incorrect but as I double check them today, nothing shows as incorrect to me.

Blade: Shun has always been 1 main hit plus 4 extra hits and 1 offhand hit on the spreadsheet while I've been updating it. (Looking back through my changelog I've never fixed anything other than TP bonus for attack) I'm not sure how blade shun is modeled as a 1 hit ws for you.

<Help me out!> :)

How do you guys feel about Kujaku +1? Buying one in a bit and just wanted to get a bit of feedback before i commit

Edit: TOO LATE ALREADY WENT IN ON IT

Capu your set has no Rancor-stuff in it.
Last I checked I had Rancor collar winning in most situations over Fotia, granted that the TP retain thing isn't calculated in the Spreadsheet but still.
Some people have Begruding Ring winning, I dunno. Having Regal+Ilabrat and Rancor Collar was producing better numbers for me than Fotia + Regal (or Ilabrat) and Begruding.

The new relic+3 head is a great nuking piece. Will be working towards that, since I'm at like 79% Magic Burst Bonus and can't use Herc to boost that any more than it already is. Not that Ninja nuking is a thing.

Ah, I must have been going off an older spreadsheet I had saved locally.. sorry about that, please disregard my comments then! I'll take a closer look at your more current version when I get a chance and see if I notice any Abjuration gear values being off. Not sure what the deal with Shun was, maybe it got accidentally modified on mine (which I then fixed) - but it sounds like your current version is correct.


Good call to remind me - went back and tested various buff/target situations, and with the rest of my gear Fotia and Rancor Collar are always really close. Fotia wins sometimes, Rancor can also win - but we're talking like a <0.01% difference in DPS. With that being the case, I'll keep Fotia as my choice due to the occasional no TP cost, and for inventory+1 (since I don't use Rancor Collar for anything else and don't carry it in my perpetually 80/80 Wardrobes).

YMMV though, worth checking personal sets and realistic buff/target situations for you to see if Rancor has a more significant edge.

Begrudging Ring is also a contender if you aren't wearing collar. Depending on situation, I do sometimes get it in my top 2 rings. I don't have Regal, so for me it ends up being between Mummu, Ilabrat, and Begrudging. Mummu/Ilabrat combo seems to win the most for me though, so that's my default.


We've talked about this one before in some detail. Bottom line, it's clearly lower total DPS than other offhand options, but it does have a place when your primary interest is TP generation (i.e. for frequent SC or a little more reliable self-SCs).

I used to own one and it's a really fun toy, and I got some use out of it for stuff like opening SCs for mages in CP parties. But, I ended up selling it when I needed some gil for more pressing purchases because I had a hard time justifying the cost for what was a pretty niche use that I found less and less opportunity to use over time.


I'm gonna have to see upgrade material prices go down a lot in order to seriously consider working toward a NIN nuking piece - though as expected, it's very good for nukes. If it was a few million gil, sure. But man... even the +2 cost at today's prices is really, really hard for me to justify. Especially considering some other pieces for non-NIN jobs that are way more relevant for core functions (for me, RNG hat is the winner from this update and definitely a Relic+3 priority for me over Mochizuki head).

But if we're talking NIN nuking (which like you said, not that it's really a thing)...

There's always the dilemma of Macc versus MAB. Hachiya+3 head has way better Macc (especially with set bonus from feet, which you should be using anyway for any foe targeting Ninjutsu), and you will want Hachiya+3 regardless for the far more practical reasons of (1) WSD+10% and (2) enfeebling Ninjutsu.

If you're getting no resists, Mochizuki absolutely wins. But are you really getting no resists on NIN? For something difficult, you prob need mage buffs, maybe mage food, etc. - and you might need the extra Macc from AF in head slot to reduce resists enough to make nuking viable. For something trivial enough that you're capping Macc... who the heck cares that much about Ninjutsu damage anyway?

There is the (admittedly awesome) San spell damage bonus on Mochizuki, but that requires multiple merits in a San spell to really take advantage of it. I find it hard to get myself to bother to reconfigure based on a particular nuke situtation, so I tend to just leave merits as 1/5 in all 6 elements, and 4/5 Sange (though at one point I had 0 Sange, 5/5 Hyoton, and 1/5 the rest... or you could do 5/5 in one darkness-side element like Hyoton and one light-side element like Katon or Raiton). Perhaps if you're planning to do like, a ton of CPing on Apex mobs with darkness bursts, you could go 5/5 Hyoton and make the most of it. But hell, for that... what it really comes down to for me is that I don't care that much about spending that much gil for a situation I don't find myself in any more. And even if I was in such a situation, I'd be OK with the next best alternative that I already have.

Perhaps if you're dead set on doing Omen nuke/MB damage tasks on NIN, and you're OK on resists, Mochi head can help up your damage? Might be a somewhat practical reason. Kind of a personal call on whether that's a priority for you that's worth the gil though, especially considering that to hit those numbers you probably need a GEO anyway... who can also do the nukes, so why leave it to the NIN?

I know that MY personal answer is "heck no, not worth it".

I thought I had read that in the forum somewhere but gil is just so heavy ):
thanks!

Tell me about it...

*cough*KannagiAG*cough* {found it}

If you can get the paper as personal drops, the +2 isn't that expensive and it's a pretty amazing upgrade. But you're right, as of now, it's not worth the gil for a niche purpose. The +3 is far too expensive to consider, seeing the upgrades from +2 and the current use:price ratio.

As for the merits, this category needs a serious overhaul. in 2018, we should be able to max out all of these stats/abilities. To be clear, NIN shouldn't have to choose between picking a higher tier nuke or maxing one out. What I did was max out Raiton (thunder), and then put a merit into each other one. The other alternative is like you said, 4/5 sange, raiton, hyoton (ice = darkness mb, thunder = light mb). You'll hardly nuke anything besides Lv2/3 skillchains anyways, and its usually light or dark attributes in either. Again, such a niche scenario that its hardly worth losing sleep over. I can't totally envision a whole bunch of scenarios where nin would do a fair share of nuking. Perhaps Tanking Kei/backup nuking, or MB/skillchaining in a CP group (doubles as a skillchain opener/ender + nuker). Otherwise, it's really a useless role in many instances. And NIN alone can get some exceptionally high Magic Burst and MAB, but it requires getting high level buffs to even be considered worth a slot. That being the case, most people would just use a BLM instead.

That aside, we should be expecting either WSD+10 legs or body for relic+3. My guess is it's body.

Which reminds me, because I have never seen this mentioned anywhere. Can NIN blood tank Kei with Migawari? I was going to set up a run for bead/shield, but the idea of eating Fullers with Migawari sort of intrigued me. Kei is paper weak and he's extremely easy to tank, so NIN shouldn't have many issues (can use DT set for -ga magic). Just wondering who here may have had experience vs Kei.

While I'm not complete sure, I assume Migawari doesn't save you from Fullers.

Still, that shouldn't really stop you from trying to NIN tank it - you can just outrun Fullers fairly easily, the move has a long startup time and it's very predictable anyway since it's based on HP percentage. Might as well have Migawari up, and if you happen to get caught in range you can report back on results :)

Honestly, even if you die while you get some practice, can just get back up and tank weak (or go boom to reset weakness). It's also possible to keep HP above 2500 and have people remove Luopons/pets/players from range, though that's always at least somewhat risky since unlucky timing on Curse (from Deathly Diminuendo) + Fullers will kill you. Also the GEOs always manage to find a way to NOT remove the Luopon... I find the running away method is best - it's actually what our usual Kei tank does. Even on the rather rare occurrence of a slow reaction time/lag and a fullers death, recovering isn't terribly hard.

It's my personal opinion sange 5/5 is the best place to put 5 merits in group two. As you said, we're not mages, sange increases my damage potential the most.

I then chose 2/5 Hyoton San, and 3/5 Raiton san. For both light and dark side nukes, but also for lowering resistance to Earth(slow).

Sange's contribution to TP generation is ridiculous. I'll gladly pay the gil to sustain that.

I dont think fuller is the problem, eating a 2k aga and getting hit for 1k after it is.