The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

To be fair if you have no access to mules, Kannagi would take so much more.
Even with perfect setup to get red light everytime (possible if you have all special event weapons and that +staff skill Escha neck, I think?) you can't keep more than 1 pop on you.
You need to farm all those NMs for the base trial weapon, and that takes a while considering nowadays' standards.
Then you have the Ironclads, I guess they go down easy these days with trust and such, but it's still gonna take a while to stop to farm the pops every time.
Then you have Avatars, even worse to farm.
Then you have the lovely lovely lovely Apademak. These days you don't find pop items on AH so you have to farm all 3 NMs on your own, with those lovely respawn times (assuming no competition) then spam the Dhorme Khimaira and get Red, then kill Apademak, rinse and repat. Have to do this around 50 times. (75 items)
Then you have 1500 HMP which you can speed through if you got the gil I guess, likewise with the Dross altough those are not as common on AH but easily (arguably...) farmable during VW campaigns.
Then you have the usual >10k Riftborn stage which is basically the same as the rest.

Sooo... yeah, if you have no mules and are starting from scratch it wouldn't surprise me if doing Empy would take you more than Mythic honestly.
Mythic you can speed through most stages with KIs, and I think it's less annoying to do completely solo. Except Assault maybe?
Oh and ZNM. ZNMs without mules can be a lenghty trial with all those back and forth.
Some pop points take a while to get to, altough I guess Unity Warp make some faster to get to nowadays?

Yup, I've done 1 of each type of RME afterglow weapon (Kikoku, Armageddon, Kenkonken), and do have a 90 Kannagi that I left there, and the Empy/Mythic additional hassle is not insignificant. Just recently helped a couple friends do some of the 75 Apademak Horns trials for Empy Harp and Sword, and making that set is STILL pretty annoying after all this time.

It's one of those things that was arguably easier during the Abyssea days simply because you could bring friends/mules with pops bought on AH and pop 3-6 Apademaks each time.
Difficulty to kill the mob was not an issue either. Even if you didn't have the strenth to kill it yourself, you still had the option of getting a brew and kill a series of Apademaks once you had enough pops ready.

Soooo yeah, I'd dare to say it's slower these days than back then.

FWIW, since we're talking about NIN... at the very least, that's one of the ideal jobs for Empy pop farming. I'm 14/15 red procs on NIN/WAR (no Freezebite), you no longer need skill+ neck for staff (merits is fine), and you can now even use reasonable TH gear on NIN to hit the max non-THF cap of TH4 (Dark Matter augmented Reisenjima gear, Chaac Belt) so it's not quite as vital to job change for farming PIs or fighting the trophy drop NM.

But yeah, not having at least a mule (I can dual-box NIN+WHM) sure does make things more obnoxious, as does lacking some of the special weapons.


Dross/Cinder are a little easier these days since they are Ambuscade rewards, so a lot of people will get their monthly max (3) and sell. I actually JUST finished Armageddon so I'm up on the current trends on my server at least.

They're also still farmable (though more annoying, to get procs) outside of VW campaign. I farmed some on Bismark with NIN+BLM dualbox and trusts and was able to reliably cap lights. Used 3-4 displacers per kill to speed stuff up. I also dragged the LS out one night and made them sell me their dross - this works for Ambuscade as well ;)

That being said, yeah, it's still a hassle above and beyond the cost/value of the buyable items.

NIN is sorta lucky in that respect, in that most jobs don't have the luxury of the much simpler and cheaper Relic weapon being arguably the best choice of RME, so not only can you save some gil but you can avoid some significant annoyance with the other requirements.


Probably true.

One tip if anyone DOES feel like making a Kannagi and hasn't done the 75 Apademak Horns (or really, for any Empy weapon with annoying pops - Chloris is another highlight lol).. if they ever do the Abyssea trophy items for login points again, it can be worth making max mules just to avoid some of that hassle. It's actually how I finished my 85-90 Kannagi just in case I ever wanted to upgrade it further!

It's a combination of factors.

-Higher delay means worse overall TP gain and fewer Daken procs per unit time.
-Saving 3k TP for Kamu every three minutes is a substantial damage loss and can be cumbersome in the middle of a fight. Even if you can start with 3k and don't need to rebuild, you're giving up a lot of damage on your opener.
-High enmity is potentially counterproductive when trying to use Innin.
-OA2-3 isn't as impressive these days with so much multiattack available.
-Lacks the flexibility of Kikoku (Metsu gives you a solid fragmentation option and an alternative to Hi for darkness) and Heishi (access to radiance/umbra, grants Shun the light property with aftermath up, Ten with TPBonus and some WSD gear is very solid weaponskill that also replaces Hi in certain skillchains).

None of NIN's RMEAs are over-the-moon amazing, but as stated the two best overall are probably Heishi and Kikoku.

Kannagi is Briareus/Sobek/Apademak, the same path as Almace (though they differ in 99 trial items; Kannagi is dross while Almace is cinder). Souls and plates are only for Daurdabla and Ochain.

Good summary, Nightfyre ^^

And not to get too into DNC talk on the NIN forum, but since the original question was considering Nagi or Terps, DNC doesn't have the same issues as NIN when it comes to Mythic.

1) Not very hard for DNC to generate very fast 3000tp to keep AM3 up with minimal downtime
2) The associated WS (Pyrrhic Kleos) is a great WS anyway, only made more so by the PK damage+30% mythic associated weapon bonus. Not a hit to DNC DPS like what Nagi NIN has to deal with for Kamu.
3) OAx is arguably more helpful to DNC than it is to NIN, thanks to DNC's overall damage being more heavily weighted toward WS anyway. So the increased WS frequency (while certainly not a bad thing for any job) is comparatively even more valuable for DNC.

So yeah, I guess my advice would be:

1) If you're really set on a mythic and it's between NIN and DNC, go for DNC instead.

2) If the main point is that you want a NIN RME, get a Kikoku instead (assuming Aeonic is out of reach, if not get Heishi).

3) Consider the hassle of Mythic/Empy quests as well as their higher price, and it might make a relatively strong (for its job) Relic like Kikoku more appealing for those reasons as well.

I've been owning an Heishi Shorinken for the longest time but I've never messed around with 3step and 4step Radiance.
Which sequence do you guys use when you're soloing Radiance?

3K Shun > Kamu > Shun should produce Light and then Radiance, right?

What about a 4 step?

2 step light spam:
shun -> shun

3 step light spam
kamu -> shun -> shun

3 step radiance:
kamu -> 2k shun -> shun
or 2k shun then kamu -> shun -> shun

4 step:
ten -> kamu -> shun -> shun

5 step:
shun -> ten -> kamu -> shun -> shun

6 step isn't too optimal I have found on NIN due to no distortion WS, thus having to build it off level 1 skillchains and ending up with less power overall and it ends with light not radiance.

Rin -> Retsu -> shun -> ten -> kamu -> shun


5 step if you can pull it off will give very high damage radiance, when I do it vs levi it takes about 40-55% of his HP (using chaos roll and geo-fury, geo-frailty doesn't seem to do as much to avatars for some reason). To pull it off safely while tanking I use Issekigan which also helps even out tp gain thanks to tactical parry.


95% of the time that's what I play NIN for tho. 3 boxing levi, harder UNM, even some reisenjima there isn't another tank if I'm on NIN and I guess that's how people have been using it in omen too.

I think it's good for debuffs (40 magic acc) and tanking (enmity +40, full hp reraise on Mijin) and lets NIN have a 2nd shot at tanking something more easily. I don't think it loses a ton of damage either. It seems every katana NIN has, has an intended purpose. Nagi -> tanking and debuffing, Kannagi -> Innin + Hi, Heishi -> skillchains, shun and ten, Kikoku -> attack and metsu. For all those situations, the katana listed is the best choice.

Is this confirmed 100%?
If you're sure then it means the special "Light" property to Shun gets applied from the first time you use it already.
I thought it was applied from the first time you use it AFTER putting Aftermath up.

Surely you meant 1k Shun > Kamu > Shun
and 2k Shun > Kamu > Shun ?
Because storing TP for Kamu would have no purpose since the AM activates only with Shun D:

You just have to use it once then ride it out. So really the 3rd Shun will be light but after that it's every 2nd one same as Foma with last stand.



You can actually get aftermath up mid chain, Llewyn posted about it a while back iirc. I'd have to double check if the 3 step one works without aftermath already up. In general on Heishi though, unless ending a 5 step, I tend to keep my aftermath up at all times for the skillchain bonus and light property rather than doing radiance for reasons like this. I can say I've never done 2k shun -> kamu -> shun, would be a big waste of tp D:

Edit; and you're right on kamu no reason to ever have 2k on that, I'll edit that my mistake.

These are what I usually use:
2 step light spam (ride aftermath):
shun -> shun

4 step:
ten -> kamu -> shun -> shun

5 step:
shun -> ten -> kamu -> shun -> shun

With 5 step being the hardest to pull off especially while tanking something dangerous, but by far the most damage. Shun -> Shun is great filler though. In general 3 step is kind of meh due to either losing aftermath for a weaker radiance or just having to use kamu too much.

Versa Celata +1
Trance Belt

Eihwaz ring is another option also but it's the same +5 as the two you have, but higher hp+ (i dunno if nin has a problem losing hp during the flip)

Nope, Halitus helm is the best enmity option for nin. Surprised I forgot do suggest it when I previously replied to Cap

Probably because, unless the text is wrong, Ninja can't equip it.

!!!
:O


...ahem

Way to hax the game sechs.

Sechs, I made the exact same face just now. Ha ha ha ha. Man, the lust for that helm must have been high if I assumed I could wear it.

Versa +1 fixed~

卍Andartia assumes Stat+(STR/DEX/AGI) Attk/Acc+ and WSD+ for Blade: Ten, Metsu, and Hi. A DEX/STR Acc/Attk DA cape for Shun is perfectly acceptable.

This is in the OP and I am having some trouble figuring out why it confuses me. Is it not always better to go for the 10% weapon skill damage when preforming shun? I understand it is a multi hit ws, and that DA could possibly have an increase in damage, but is it just user preference? Or do people typically lean one way or another?

Edit:

What earrings are you guys in replacement of lugra's when it isnt night time?

any1 has an updated tp and shun set with new updated artifacts?

WSD only applies to the first hit of a multi-hit WS, so it generally just ends up being better average damage to use stuff like multiattack, attribute, attack, etc. WSD still provides SOME help, it just doesn't tend to be enough to outpace the alternatives.

WSD is a much bigger deal on single hit WS (i.e. Hi/Ten/Metsu/Kamu)


Mache x2 is the most obtainable set. Obviously Mache+1 is better if you have those, but I'm not going to assume many people have rare 100mil+ earrings.

Lugra +1 (night) > Lugra NQ (night) > Mache +1 > Mache > Brutal > Trux


OP is up to date including December 2016 items, none of the new AF replaces existing TP/Shun pieces.

Updated AF head does replace previous options in Ten/Metsu/Kamu sets, and I think it should also win for Hi (even though Kincard may have overlooked that piece or didn't update the Hi set in the most recent OP update). For all of those WS, even Hachiya+2 is sidegrade territory to perfect Herculean augments or Adhemar+1, and Hachiya+3 is pretty easily a winner.

The other useful AF pieces are head/feet for ninjutsu purposes. I guess the Body/Legs are DW&Acc options if for some reason you need those, but that's not really a priority given the ease of capping DW on NIN.

Don't forget you can squeeze in tp bonus moonshade for some ws's also.

The above listed earrings all beat Moonshade for Shun.

Interestingly, the fact that TP Bonus isn't as valuable for Shun as it is for some WS is part of the reason spamming Blade Ten (which does get a ton out of TP Bonus) is effective for aeonic katana users.

It might be worth taking a look at the TP modifier for Shun. According to jp wiki it's +0%/100%/200% attack at 1000/2000/3000. I have trouble seeing anything beating that if you're not attack capped.

Just from having a sense of Shun results when using it at 1000/2000/3000, I'm not sure I trust those JP wiki numbers. Seems too strong, and not lining up with my practical sense of my Shun damage results at higher TP in uncapped situations. Shun having that strong of a TP mod also seems like it would be more competitive with Ten than people are actually seeing in practice with Aeonic.

That being said, I could be wrong on that point and it would improve Moonshade's standing for Shun if that is indeed the case.

Will have to mess around and log some results for myself outside of spreadsheet-land (and possible modeling inaccuracies) to see what I get.

I'm also skeptical of an x3.0 attack multiplier, even at 3k. That's extremely high and, to my knowledge, unprecedented in xi. I'd want to see the data set behind that claim.

For what it's worth, ascetics fury has a base 2x attack multiplier regardless of tp so I don't have think 3x is that unprecedented for 3000 tp

Fair enough. The wiki page is http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/25610.html for anybody that is curious. The footnotes specifically mention Moonshade Earring too.

Tachi: Gekko is also x2 regardless of TP. Camlann's and probably Apex Arrow are both ignore 50%, which is equivalent to at least a 2x attack multiplier.

Sturmwind, Requiescat, and Exudation are the only other WS with that kind of mod, so there isn't much to directly compare it to.

The jp wiki pages for Sturmwind and Exudation list very high attack mods, more than Shun. I thought it came from some publication but I was unable to find the reference for that. It's entirely possible I'm just remembering something wrong.

i use moonshade on shun w/ aeonic, There is SOME type of benefit at 2k tp, its just very apparent for me. I have not done any type of test though so I will not make any bold claims, but I have noticed it visually by holding to 1250 tp I am getting way higher avg than ten at 1250 which i didnt expect. This is solo farming stones... so take it with a grain of salt. I also expect this to not be the case when highly buffed (not solo).

The fact too is the difference between earrings is so small, I doubt it will be a big difference any way :D

If JP wiki is correct, Moonshade would add +25% attack to Shun. That's not a small difference. Shun has been the bread and butter for my Omen runs because it's too chaotic to put down frailty for every mob and it will definitely outperform Ten at lower cRatios (at least that's been my experience.) Also on bosses like Kyou we can't rely on BoG to be up as Luopans are always getting killed. It also has better skillchain properties (with AM up) than Blade: Ten so that helps too.