The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Ten leans heavily towards WSD with a bit of fTP scaling on it. Definitely at higher TP or with Heishi, but even Moonshade + overflow might be enough. Equal STR and DEX mods, so STR is potentially favored for attack/fSTR bonuses if acc permits.

Anyone happen to know how Jokushu Haidate compares to the other options (Rao, Hizamaru, Samnuha)? STR+29 DEX+35 is pretty unique for leg slot, but no acc/atk/multihit/WSD is disappointing and I realize Ten doesn't have massive STR/DEX attributes.

I'm mainly curious if it's actually worth farming Escha-Byakko for these things, and can't think of a whole lot of other potential uses!

I do use Ten a bit, mainly for Metsu > Ten self light.

Hiza +1, Ryou +1, Samnuha, Rao +1, Adher +1, and well aug'd Herc are all solid options and far above Jokushu. Even nq Adher/Ryou are above Jokushu by a little. Better burning through Ambuscade for +1's then farming Byakko in my opinion.

Edit: And by well aug'd Herc I pretty much mean the stars need to align with the blood moon on the year of the dragon while you hold your lucky rabbits foot.

You would have to have +10 STR, +30 ACC/ATT, WSD +5(or higher) to be close to Hiza +1. Even then, Ambuscade pants make more sense /shrug.

what two ambuscade capes is best for kikoku ag nin?

atm i got 20 dex 20 acc 20 att 10 crit rate but am thinking its not best.

now i got enough points for my 2nd cape and am looking to what to do .

Could do a ws cape with DEX/ACC/ATT/WSD. That's a good route for Metsu/Ten/Shun. DA instead of WSD is another option.

im thinking to change my current capes stats to...

tp cape- 20 dex/acc/att 10 DA
ws cape- 20 dex/acc/att 10 wsd

are we sure thats the best tp and ws capes atm? i like the crit rate im ust unsure if it wins to DA or not. I already have 34%TA in gear, so i am unsure if the DA will be a big boost....

On my sheets I am getting this order.

DA > STP > Crit. Rate

The three have a small margin for difference, so I wouldn't worry too much.

does anyone have a recently updated gs on a pastebin or somewhere i can look at it

I agree that for TP, I'm getting DA as best but it's not a huge difference between DA/Crit/STP.

If you're on your first NIN augmented cape, I'd definitely suggest DA not only as the better TP option by a small margin, but because it's also a fantastic WS option. Best Shun cape, very good Metsu option (2nd place to WSD) and also better for Ten than anything but a Ten-augmented Andartia (ideal: STR and WSD, or some mix of STR/DEX).

For Kikoku users only: DEX/Acc&Atk/WSD does clearly win on WS if solely considering Metsu (and is very good for Ten as well), so is not a bad choice for 2nd cape. But it's pretty irrelevant for non-Kikoku NINs - since WSD is not as strong for Shun, I'm getting WSD and DA as roughly sidegrades for Shun, no real reason to not just let your TP cape do double duty for Shun purposes as well.

For any non-Kikoku/Heishi NINs: it's a higher priority to get a 2nd cape for Hi as soon as you can, though I'd still suggest the DEX/DA TP cape as first priority.

Honestly, for me even as a Kikoku user with a fully augmented DEX/Acc&Atk/DA cape, I'm still thinking that my 2nd NIN cape (which I've yet to start) is gonna be AGI/critWSD (corrected, see below couple posts) for Hi because that's SOOOO good for Hi, which I do still use a decent amount despite favoring Metsu (and my TP cape is still very strong for Metsu) Especially since I'm often playing with BLUs spamming CdC, I get a lot of mileage out of Hi > CdC (darkness) > Metsu (darkness).

Cape with Agi + Crit Rate or Agi + WSD for Hi :o?

You sure? I could swear I had noticeably better results from Agi/Wsd for Blade: Hi, but maybe I'm wrong?

WSD does seems to win by a bit, though crit isn't far behind. Sorry, I hadn't really dove deep into it since that's not my top priority and I assumed crit performed better than it actually does!

Correcting my previous post too, to avoid confusion. Thanks for calling me out to get that fixed ;)

Point remains that Andartia with AGI/Acc&Atk/??? is a monster for Hi, so a significant priority. WSD is amazing. Crit augment is still amazing in comparison to everything not-Andartia, but falls a little short of WSD augment.

I seem to recall the difference wasn't that small, but then again saying "small" or "big" is a pretty subjective and unaccurate way to define it.

Last time I tested it on the spreadsheet I think I got WSD > Critrate > Critdamage in this order from best to worst.

Again: talking about BladeHi of course.

Well, it's hard to give extremely objective numbers without the exact same targets/gear/buffs.

But yes, Andartia with AGI/WSD is clearly the winner for Hi, well over 100 damage above the next best Andartia augments across many scenarios I checked.

Second place by a significant margin (but still crushing the next best non-Andartia choice by 200+ damage on average) is Andartia with Crit rate or Crit dmg. I get Crit Rate and Crit Damage extremely close across the board (we're talking like 10~20 damage difference in many scenarios). Usually, and on high level content with what I feel are realistic buffs, I get Crit rate winning. But some scenarios I've seen Crit dmg pull ahead. Truly sidegrade territory though.

If you do have a DEX/WSD cape, that holds up decently too for Hi despite the lack of AGI. The AGI focused ones are better, but even with no AGI the WSD+10% is enough to easily beat non-Andartia choices so makes a rather nice stopgap if you're not ready to make a Hi-specific cape.

With the 2 (now 3) capes per month limit I didn't ge a chance to update my Andartia Cape yet, but I think I'm gonna make two, one for TP (Dex_acc/att_DA) and one for WS (AGI_acc/att_WSD).
The first one works well for WSs as well, like Shun, arguably other WSs too.

Of course if you wanted to be more specific you'd go with a STR one but I need to draw a line somewhere with so many jobs and so limited capes per month.

Ideally I'd love one for nuking as well (and debuffs!) but that's certainly not very high in my priority list.

for nuking cape would you go...

int/maac/mab?

I mean, what else would you go lol

i guess one could put FC in to help recasts, doesnt seem to far fetched.

There's also the issue that using the limited resources available to make JSE capes makes it very tough to justify making a ninjutsu cape for any practical purpose. For NIN alone, (1) TP cape, (2) WS cape, and (3) potentially an additional WS cape (i.e. someone making a DEX/WSD for Metsu, and AGI/WSD for Hi) are higher priority.

And you have to balance whether it's more important to you to augment capes for any other jobs, many of which are best in slot for their purpose by a very large margin for really practical purposes (TP, nukes, WS, etc.). Limited upgrade items, higher priorities, opportunity cost just of the time involved to farm Ambuscade... Ninjutsu cape has gotta be extremely low on the priority scale for all but the hardest core NIN-only players. Maybe something to do if you farm all five expected +1 sets over the course of the next few months and just find yourself with upgrade items you otherwise don't know what to do with, but I can't see that happening for a long time for most people who play more than 1 job.

For ninjutsu enfeebles: we already have Yokaze Macc+15 as a very good option. Andartia gets a relatively small improvement from an additional Macc+5. INT and MAB do nothing for you on enfeebles (INT doesn't affect accuracy or duration for enfeebling ninjutsu, only Macc/Skill do). Note that for enfeebles or enhancing, I do suppose FC could be of some use... so while I initially thought "yeah, INT/MAB/MAcc augs!", from a practical standpoint maybe FC *is* better, because...

For elemental ninjutsu: um, OK, it's true that Andartia with INT/MAB/Macc+M.Dmg is clearly the best option. But is using elemental ninjutsu actually ever worth it to you? To me, elemental ninjutsu isn't even worth the cast time (and I have an otherwise top tier set, mainly thanks to gear I use for other jobs like BLU or COR). I think this is more a theoretical set to toss out on a forum than a set that should get much/any use in practical situations.

If there's some situation where my magic damage on NIN is actually more helpful than generating damage or SCs from nonstop melee, we probably shouldn't even be using a NIN there. Even in a couple of scenarios that are some of the better cases for nukes, I don't find a particularly compelling argument:

* For CP parties on Apex mobs, I'm much more interested in generating TP for more WS/SC than I am in doing MBs. If a NIN MB is actually significant to the group (to the point where your damage from spells is more valuable than you generating faster SCs), you probably have a party with very minimal magic power. In that case, you're probably fighting the wrong targets on Apex mobs, and you'd likely get better CP just tearing through Reisenjima with a melee strat instead.

* Even in a situation where you get something like an NM putting up Physical Shield mid-fight and you *could* toss in a nuke, I'm more inclined to use that downtime to recast other helpful enhancing or enfeebling ninjutsu until I'm able to melee again, not to nuke. Kakka, Yurin, Migawari, Yain/Gekka, additional enfeebles, etc...

TL;DR version: If you actually run out of other capes to make, I guess a NIN enfeeble cape has some potential use. And for that you'd want Macc/FC, and the Abj.Thread slot is basically meaningless. NIN elemental ninjutsu cape is theoretically best in slot, but do you really plan to use that?

I don't think ninjutsu should be under estimated, I'm not gonna make a cape for it, but I certainly keep my ninjutsu sets up to speed.

Why? Please give me an example of a situation where elemental ninjutsu is worth it.

Note that I'm not talking about enfeebles, which I agree are occasionally useful (but where we have an existing option in Yokaze that's only worse by Macc-5, so prob doesn't justify the large opportunity cost involved in making a ninjutsu focused Andartia at the expense of lots of great capes for NIN and other jobs)

I'm saying this as someone who does own all of the relevant nuking gear, I just never use it and can't really think of a good use case.

If your nuke is the difference between a monster dying in 1 volley or dying in 2, then it is certainly worth it. You don't need a completely optimal setup to make Apex worth it over Reisenjima fodder.

Then I guess the questions people should be asking themselves are:

(1) whether they really find themselves in that situation on NIN (I haven't, not once), and

(2) even if they do, whether making a JSE cape specifically for that situation would cause ANY difference in ability to kill the monster in 1 volley versus otherwise same set using a non-Andartia back piece (seems unlikely to me)
EDIT: You know what, thinking about it a little more even this is irrelevant. So what if a mob ends up surviving 1 MB volley by a couple % HP... you're a NIN who can just smack it a time or two anyway with your katana to kill it, while gaining TP that will be used anyway on the SC for the next mob. The difference between you having Andartia with nuke stats and using any other nuke cape (Yokaze, Argochampsa, Aput/+1, Izduba, etc.) is practically meaningless.

YMMV, if for some reason you're finding yourself in situations where you really need to squeeze more elemental ninjutsu damage out of back slot to the point where that's more a priority to you than massively best in slot TP/WS/other capes for basically every other job in the game, more power to you and go right ahead on that nuking Andartia Mantle. I have a feeling that's not the case for 99.9999% of NINs.

Had some free time at the office today. Still testing under different situations but this is what I am getting at the I135 range. Keep in mind some pieces would vary depending on fTP day/Dusk+Dawn cycles. The ACC set was at I145, will look at the conditions again in a bit to confirm.

95% of the player basis isn't going to have +1 abj. gear. So generally your best side grade would be Herc or Adhemar NQ. Even if we discuss Herc and talk about max aug's, that's just as silly in itself. Don't beat yourself up if you can't get perfect augments on the gear, but shoot for something listed below.

Herc for TP/DEX MOD WS:
DEX 8-15 (STR works for Ten as well)
ACC/ATT 25-35
TA 3-4

Herc for Hi:
AGI 8-15
ACC/ATT 25-35
Crit. DMG/Crit. Rate

Herc for Casting:
INT 8-15
M.ACC/M.ATT 20-30
FC 4-6/MBburst 5-7

Herc for DT:
DEX 8-15 (opt for more acc)
ACC/ATT 25-35
DT- 3-4

Kudos to you if you have enough inven space to have 4-5 different Herc sets like that though.

TP

ItemSet 343859

ItemSet 343860

All Herc is DEX/ACC/ATT/TA
Adhe was Path A for ACC set, Path B otherwise.

WS

ItemSet 343856

ItemSet 343855

ItemSet 343858

ItemSet 343857

Metsu/Shun/Ten: Swaps are usually Herc/Adhe NQ. Herc Augments would be DEX/ACC/ATT/TA. Adhe would favor Path B.
Hi: Herc was tested with AGI/ACC/ATT/CRIT DMG



PDT

ItemSet 331040

No point in really talking about capes since that is currently being covered. If your new to NIN there is also some starting point stuff on another thread in this section.

Edit: forgot to throw Kamu set in there, will do that in a bit. Apologies!

Thanks for the sets!

Minor comments:

TP sets:
- You're getting Lissome Necklace beating Erudition? Normally not the case for me, though I know it varies based on buffs/target/other gear and they're both pretty close.
- Take care on that Acc+ set not to go too overboard with DW from Ryuo head/Adhemar body (pieces shown are DW+15, so a rather significant TP/hit reduction when getting capped magical haste). Rao/+1 head, Ryuo/+1 body, and of course Herc are nice substitutes without any DW.

PDT/DT:
- Amm Greaves are BiS DT- feet (DT-5% with max augs)
- Back has some other options like Solemnity (DT-4%) and Mollusca (DT-5%), which do give up the acc from Agema but could free up another slot entirely
- I know there's a lot of flexibility as long as you hit PDT- cap, but DT- is always preferable to me since it's physical, magic, breath, and "other". I've personally taken to using Meva/MDB where I have room, like Sanare/Eabani earrings).

WS sets:
What are you getting for Dawn-Dusk earrings? (also minor error in Hi, showing two Lugra +1)

Herc for casting:
- Worth noting that M.Burst dmg+ caps at 40% (plus Mujin Band which exceeds cap), so take care not to go overboard at the expense of something else. NIN has some pretty high value pieces available: Ochu x1-2 at 13% each, Samnuha Coat 8%, Locus Ring/Static Earring 5% each. You're also basically never gonna want to replace Hattori+1 hands/Samnuha body, so looking at head/legs/feet for possible Herc nuke pieces.

I would just like to point out that while cping on nin and nuking my nukes did 20% or so of the mob HP each MB, so if I didn't nuke we would have needed to SC again vs instakill.

For the head slot you should be using the AF2 head, at least for a San nuke anyways. Herc can potentially win for Ni.

Yeah Erudition pulls ahead by about 50ish, don't know how I missed that! Ryuo was a mistake, was actually suppose to be Rao +1, ty for catching that.


Yes I agree. Would always opt for straight DT.


Usually showing Telos + Brutal winning. Brutal + Ishrava works well for Metsu. Cessance/Brutal/Ishrava/Lugra(+1)/Digni all have their place and all within 80-180 point range, depending on the combo used. That combo wouldn't be used for Ten since you would be ws'ing at or above 1250 (Heishi/Moonshade)or 1750 (Moonshade only).

Edit'd touch a bit more on the subject


^ Guess I should have added the Nuke/MB sets as well.

Sorry, been a long day.

It shouldn't be that hard to beat AF2's MAB+15/Ninjutsu Damage+15. Herc already has base MAB+10.

My Herculean Helm has (admittedly lucky dark matter) augments of MAB+46 (56 total with the base MAB+10) and Macc+18, so it very easily beats AF2, hundreds of damage better unresisted on Ni or San. But even with moderately good augments, not that hard to get something better.