The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
I don't have or use the spreadsheets and don't really care to fix them to be honest, especially when you can't share the settings you have that brought you to the conclusion.
What his SS? It's NIN sheet that many people edited. Austar don't even like or use sheets.
here is sheet with almost no ma in tp sets Nagi is clearly faster to WS. What's your problem and where.
Edit. Looks like your problem is not knowing how to use sheet, not how sheet works.
here is sheet with almost no ma in tp sets Nagi is clearly faster to WS. What's your problem and where.
Edit. Looks like your problem is not knowing how to use sheet, not how sheet works.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
If I'm not mistaken, the AM on Kikoku is also incorrect in the spreadsheet.
SimonSes said: »
Edit. Looks like your problem is not knowing how to use sheet, not how sheet works.
While looking over what you submitted it does indeed appear to be the Result of the WS themselves suggesting Shun requires less TP than Kamu which is obviously Wrong or somehow using Shun makes Heishi WS faster than Nagi AM3 which again is also Wrong.
You can change to Shun and Kami in my example and it changes nothing. Nagi is still faster.
Shun requires less TP than Kamu in the spreadsheet because the TP return is higher being a multi hit WS. That's your disparity.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Shun requires less TP than Kamu in the spreadsheet because the TP return is higher being a multi hit WS. That's your disparity.
Yes and no. Shun will have a higher TP return than Kamu so I need to get less TP before I can WS again.
SimonSes said: »
You can change to Shun and Kami in my example and it changes nothing. Nagi is still faster.
Nagi Round/WS — 2.42
Heishi Round/WA — 2.31
On top of what Austar said:
1. Store TP works for both hands, am3 not
2. Store tp works for 79% proc Daken, am3 not
3. Am3 will often result in TP overflow, which won't be faster to WS, it will be WS with higher TP.
1. Store TP works for both hands, am3 not
2. Store tp works for 79% proc Daken, am3 not
3. Am3 will often result in TP overflow, which won't be faster to WS, it will be WS with higher TP.
Are you using the same WS for both sets? Because Kamu will have a lower TP return. Store TP also affects shuriken.
SimonSes said: »
On top of what Austar said:
1. Store TP works for both hands, am3 not
2. Store tp works for 79% proc Daken, am3 not
3. Am3 will often result in TP overflow, which won't be faster to WS, it will be WS with higher TP.
1. Store TP works for both hands, am3 not
2. Store tp works for 79% proc Daken, am3 not
3. Am3 will often result in TP overflow, which won't be faster to WS, it will be WS with higher TP.
Store TP+10 beats AM3 just like that lol
AM3 does 60% either Double TP of 1 hit or Triple TP rather than 10% of 3 hits that even if they happen to proc TA still will NOT match AM3
It's a combination of multi hit (with extra Store TP) vs a single hit ws. Multi hit returns more TP, meaning less to reach your next threshold. In your link, that's 1000. Store TP also affects Daken and offhand.
Overflow has nothing to do with it, though. It's accounted for in WS damage, but it has nothing to do with rounds to WS.
Overflow has nothing to do with it, though. It's accounted for in WS damage, but it has nothing to do with rounds to WS.
Heishi TP per Hit — 72.49
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Nagi is doing Triple to Quadruple the TP Return of Heishi w/ AM3 up exclusively by its own self 74% of the time. All while the other other 26% of the time Heishi has a 76% chance of giving 20 whole TP extra in a Round.
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Nagi is doing Triple to Quadruple the TP Return of Heishi w/ AM3 up exclusively by its own self 74% of the time. All while the other other 26% of the time Heishi has a 76% chance of giving 20 whole TP extra in a Round.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Overflow has nothing to do with it, though. It's accounted for in WS damage, but it has nothing to do with rounds to WS.
If you referencing what I told about TP overflow, maybe I wasn't clear enough or you misunderstood.
Im not saying TP overflow is a reason for faster round to WS, I'm talking that MA (including AM3) may result in tp overflow instead of faster WS. Every MA proc that will happen in round that will take you to 1000TP anyway, won't count toward faster WSing, but towards tp overflow.
Lets take synthetic scenario where you have 91TP per hit and compare 10sTP with 10%DA. On avg both will increase TP per round from 182 to 200.2 (2.2*2*91 for 10%DA and 2*(91*1.1) for 10 store TP) but:
10 storeTP will always cut rounds to 1000TP (starting from 0) from 6 to 5
10% DA will only cut rounds to 1000TP if it proc on rounds 1 to 5. If it proc in round 6, when you already have 910TP, then it wont cut rounds to WS, but will result in TP overflow
Hope I explained this better now.
llAKs0nll said: »
Heishi TP per Hit — 72.49
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
SimonSes said: »
Hope I explained this better now.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Heishi TP per Hit — 72.49
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Heishi doesn’t come remotely close to matching AM3 via STP+10 so the SS Round/WS is clearly BROKEN.
You're either trolling or a complete *** retard
[+]
Ramuh.Austar said: »
You're either trolling or a complete *** retard
Genius
llAKs0nll said: »
Heishi TP per Hit — 72.49
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Nagi is doing Triple to Quadruple the TP Return of Heishi w/ AM3 up exclusively by its own self 74% of the time. All while the other other 26% of the time Heishi has a 76% chance of giving 20 whole TP extra in a Round.
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Nagi is doing Triple to Quadruple the TP Return of Heishi w/ AM3 up exclusively by its own self 74% of the time. All while the other other 26% of the time Heishi has a 76% chance of giving 20 whole TP extra in a Round.
There is many factors and you seems to not understand that.
MA proc from gear will block AM3
"Over-TP Rnds:" set to 0.5 simulate additional pointless round 50% of the time. Set it to 0 if you check for real rounds to ws
Store TP and MA from gear works for offhand
MA proc or AM3 will sometimes result in TP overflow instead of faster WS, like I explained above
Shun has higher TP return, and sheet calculate TP needed to WS after WS, not starting from 0TP.
I already posted you sheet when with same TP set with almost no MA, Nagi is much faster. You keep checking it in some sheet where all above points are a factor.
SimonSes said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Heishi TP per Hit — 72.49
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Nagi is doing Triple to Quadruple the TP Return of Heishi w/ AM3 up exclusively by its own self 74% of the time. All while the other other 26% of the time Heishi has a 76% chance of giving 20 whole TP extra in a Round.
Gleti TP per Hit — 65.89
Date Shuriken — 63.93
10% of 202.31 = 20 TP per Round minus xHit
With TA proc x2 = 48 TP
While AM3 w/ Gleti and Malignance is….
36% TA and 217 TP just w/ Mythic alone minus Offhand & Daken
38% DA and 145 TP just via Mythic alone…….. same
AM3 217 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
AM3 145 TP vs 48 TP MAX from STP+10
Nagi doing such TP 74% of the time vs 16% TA in Gear for Heishi.
It’s not even close to being a Contest.
Nagi is doing Triple to Quadruple the TP Return of Heishi w/ AM3 up exclusively by its own self 74% of the time. All while the other other 26% of the time Heishi has a 76% chance of giving 20 whole TP extra in a Round.
There is many factors and you seems to not understand that.
MA proc from gear will block AM3
"Over-TP Rnds:" set to 0.5 simulate additional pointless round 50% of the time. Set it to 0 if you check for real rounds to ws
Store TP and MA from gear works for offhand
MA proc or AM3 will sometimes result in TP overflow instead of faster WS, like I explained above
Shun has higher TP return, and sheet calculate TP needed to WS after WS, not starting from 0TP.
I already posted you sheet when with same TP set with almost no MA, Nagi is much faster. You keep checking it in some sheet where all above points are a factor.
The Procs go through Checks of combined Gear + AM3 then
Quadruple Attack > Triple Attack > Double Attack
Only QA can diminish AM3 TA rate since having 10% Quadruple Attack means there are only 90 attacks left out of 100 and 20% TA via AM3 now becomes 18%
Nagi can 1000 TP after WS in 1 single Round/WS
Even IF Nagi goes OVER it’s now TP Bonus Mode negating Heishi 500 TP Bonus
Ramuh.Austar said: »
I know how it works. I just don't know why you brought it up when he's only whining about the difference in TP speed.
He is whining about rounds to WS not TP per round. You might be right it probably doesn't matter in sheet tho, because sheet takes avg, but it would matter in simulation.
llAKs0nll said: »
MA does NOT block AM3. That’s NOT how anything works.
The Procs go through Checks of combined Gear + AM3 then
Quadruple Attack > Triple Attack > Double Attack
Only QA can diminish AM3 TA rate since having 10% Quadruple Attack means there are only 90 attacks left out of 100 and 20% TA via AM3 now becomes 18%
The Procs go through Checks of combined Gear + AM3 then
Quadruple Attack > Triple Attack > Double Attack
Only QA can diminish AM3 TA rate since having 10% Quadruple Attack means there are only 90 attacks left out of 100 and 20% TA via AM3 now becomes 18%
Ok, so you don't know how AM on mythic works lol.
MA from gear and traits has priority over AM and will block it.
It's the best visible on WAR with 100%DA. You will never see AM3 (and triple hit) proc from Mythic Great Axe with 100%DA, because it will be blocked every time.
QA > TA > DA > OaT(this is where mythics are)
SimonSes said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
I know how it works. I just don't know why you brought it up when he's only whining about the difference in TP speed.
He is whining about rounds to WS not TP per round. You might be right it probably doesn't matter in sheet tho, because sheet takes avg, but it would matter in simulation.
Nariont said: »
QA > TA > DA > OaT(this is where mythics are)
SimonSes said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
MA does NOT block AM3. That’s NOT how anything works.
The Procs go through Checks of combined Gear + AM3 then
Quadruple Attack > Triple Attack > Double Attack
Only QA can diminish AM3 TA rate since having 10% Quadruple Attack means there are only 90 attacks left out of 100 and 20% TA via AM3 now becomes 18%
The Procs go through Checks of combined Gear + AM3 then
Quadruple Attack > Triple Attack > Double Attack
Only QA can diminish AM3 TA rate since having 10% Quadruple Attack means there are only 90 attacks left out of 100 and 20% TA via AM3 now becomes 18%
Ok, so you don't know how AM on mythic works lol.
MA from gear and traits has priority over AM and will block it.
It's the best visible on WAR with 100%DA. You will never see AM3 (and triple hit) proc from Mythic Great Axe with 100%DA, because it will be blocked every time.
/WAR w/ 10% DA does not Block Gear of 50% DA.
They are additional not differentiated.
EDIT : I am indeed mistaken actually. Which only makes /SAM that more obvious than it alrdy was to begin w/ yet going /WAR doesn’t exactly change much neither when 10% DA still allows 18% AM3 triple attack.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Nariont said: »
QA > TA > DA > OaT(this is where mythics are)
It shouldn’t had been that overly complicated for you to understand tbh.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
SimonSes said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
I know how it works. I just don't know why you brought it up when he's only whining about the difference in TP speed.
He is whining about rounds to WS not TP per round. You might be right it probably doesn't matter in sheet tho, because sheet takes avg, but it would matter in simulation.
I don't know how to tell you that other than just repeating myself..
Let's take 5% TA this time:
Afaik sheet checks avg so 5% TA will on avg result in more TP per round and on avg always cut rounds to WS.
Simulation simulates each round. If 5%TA will proc in a round, where you are close enough to 1000TP, that you doesn't need TA proc to reach it, then TA proc will result in TP overflow and won't result in less rounds to WS.
It sounds super simple to understand in my head. Not sure how I can explain it easier XD
llAKs0nll said: »
So 20 TP extra via STP+10 76% of the time per Round out paces AM3.
Genius
Genius
llAKs0nll said: »
STP+10 is literally just 10% TP so I did the Math of 0 xHit + xHit of x2 TA showing the actual TP gained via such
It shouldn’t had been that overly complicated for you to understand tbh.
It shouldn’t had been that overly complicated for you to understand tbh.
What's 76%?
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