The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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By Ruaumoko 2021-02-23 03:27:40
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I've been pondering an Evasion/Counter build for when you're attempting to tank multiple targets or something which constantly wipes your shadows. Counter procs occur if an incoming attack beats the Evasion/Parry checks and if you have no Utsusemi shadows, pretty much making it your final line of defense but with the 44% rate this set gets you do it might just be enough to save your life in touch-and-go situations.

ItemSet 378246

This set puts you at 17% PDT and 33% DT, getting you to the 50% cap, while not losing too much in other key slots. The Counter rate, under Yonin which is when you'd be using it, is 44%. This could be pushed to 53% with the Rao Kabuto and Tekko but I'm not sure it's worth losing the two Malignance pieces. It could be 49% with the Shuhansadamune in the off-hand but it's probably not worth losing an REMA Katana for it.

I'll experiment with it and see how it goes.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-23 04:35:51
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Its actually 47% counter :P
body 10%
legs 14%
neck 10%
back 10%
earring 3%
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 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-23 08:44:04
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Ruaumoko said: »
I've been pondering an Evasion/Counter build for when you're attempting to tank multiple targets or something which constantly wipes your shadows. Counter procs occur if an incoming attack beats the Evasion/Parry checks and if you have no Utsusemi shadows, pretty much making it your final line of defense but with the 44% rate this set gets you do it might just be enough to save your life in touch-and-go situations.

ItemSet 378246

This set puts you at 17% PDT and 33% DT, getting you to the 50% cap, while not losing too much in other key slots. The Counter rate, under Yonin which is when you'd be using it, is 44%. This could be pushed to 53% with the Rao Kabuto and Tekko but I'm not sure it's worth losing the two Malignance pieces. It could be 49% with the Shuhansadamune in the off-hand but it's probably not worth losing an REMA Katana for it.

I'll experiment with it and see how it goes.

I was just looking at this as well. Curious how it compares to a pure evasion set when tanking large amounts of mobs. I'll be playing with it as well as I'm very curious at how viable it now is when tanking those large groups of mobs.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-23 09:35:00
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What is the significance of Dedition Earring and Engraved belt in that set?
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By Ruaumoko 2021-02-23 13:03:46
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
What is the significance of Dedition Earring and Engraved belt in that set?
Engraved for some more MEVA and the Dedition for TP gain, that one is interchangable.

I'd imagine any REMA in the mainhand would work for this build but the Nagi would probably give the best result due to the constant +40 Enmity, putting you at the +100 ceiling to cap Enmity Loss from taking a hit, and the AM3.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2021-02-23 13:17:13
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Ruaumoko said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
What is the significance of Dedition Earring and Engraved belt in that set?
Engraved for some more MEVA and the Dedition for TP gain, that one is interchangable.

I'd imagine any REMA in the mainhand would work for this build but the Nagi would probably give the best result due to the constant +40 Enmity, putting you at the +100 ceiling to cap Enmity Loss from taking a hit, and the AM3.

It also cancels out the acc/att loss.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-23 14:11:46
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Ruaumoko said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
What is the significance of Dedition Earring and Engraved belt in that set?
Engraved for some more MEVA and the Dedition for TP gain, that one is interchangable.

As far as the purpose of the set goes (evasion tanking, counter for multiple targets), I would use Flume Belt +1, Odnowa earring+1 R15, and Vengeful Ring in place of the Gelatinous Ring+1 R15, Engraved Belt, and Dedition. 9 meva eva seems better than Engraved's meva reduction. 30 DEF from earring (aug) is probably better than 15VIT from G. ring(aug), and Flume+1 gives you the same (p)DT you had before. And Dedition acc loss turns into an acc gain with Odnowa+1. Or you could swap out the defending ring for Gelatinous and try to make up the 3% PDT elsewhere (Genmei Earring gets you close with 2 less counter, Staunch Tathlum +1 is an option since dps is not the concern, though you lose evasion).

I actually like this as a Hundred Fists/Issekegan build.
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-23 22:28:13
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So I have just finished some testing on the Counter Set and sadly I'm a bit disappointed but also surprised. I came up with a very similar build to Rua above, only changing the ring and both earrings leaving me with 44% counter rate. My goal was just to go into Apex bat territory, pick off a bat or two and see how often it activated with me just doing regular melee attacks. Counter was indeed activating but only once maybe every 10 rounds enemy attacks. So then I said lets add more bats... added 2 more... still wasn't countering as much as I would have expected but I was surprised by just how easy I was holding the 4 bats... so I added 2 more... then I went and hunted down some Apex crabs and Crakaw's... all in all in the end I had 21 mobs on me and they were rarely hitting me, I was able to maintain shadows even most the time with just trust. This reminded me just how damn evasive ninja is, especially in evasion gear which is why I think counter just isn't activating as often as we would expect. The -pdt this set has built into it also seemed to be helping a ton as most the hits that were getting through were for only 50-150 damage. So overall conclusion on my first trip out with this set is that it makes me feel more capable of tanking large amounts of mobs on Ninja then ever before despite it not seeming to counter as much as I was expecting... looking forward to playing with it more.
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By Sylph.Reain 2021-02-24 02:43:30
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Definitely notice the extra defense on the Mpaca's set against physical, and the lack of ranged accuracy. The intimidate is a nice bonus when it applies too.
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By mhomho 2021-02-24 14:32:43
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What if Yagyu Darkblade works in the offhand? What would mainhand be?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-24 14:56:09
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If that is the case (I believe it will work in OH, it does not say "Main Hand:", which usually they have been putting on newer gear)., you could Mainhand any REMA if you were just DPSing and wanted to support your group, but for tanking, Fudo Masamune C seems like a really fun pairing. Having -25% Ninjutsu recast time and the ability to throw out aoe Utsusemi images on your group is going to be godly for Yonin casting hate. But its not just limited to that. You can use a lot of different main hands depending on your purpose, shadows adding that extra touch of defense.
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-24 17:31:17
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So since I got the Mpaca set 48 hours ago I have done a ton of testing and this set is quite impressive, I have put together a video showing how it compares to our other end game sets in actual game play. I'm quite excited about our new potential! Counter Set is also tested in video.

YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Quetzalcoatl.Khajit
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By Quetzalcoatl.Khajit 2021-02-24 17:53:32
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If I recall cleaving strats properly, you could line the mobs up better so that you can theoretically parry them all by slowly backing off with a wall to your right.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-02-24 20:53:07
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So here's my most drunken opinion of this game overall and ever, with regard to specific builds, wether they be, eva build, DT build, PDT build, MDT build, party build, counter build, MB build, TP build, Cure build, Erase build, Status ailment build, enfeeble build, buff build and all the rest....

No matter the optimal build, if you can help it for BiS, they should be the same, at this point in the game we play, the only thing beyond all those sets that should vary is what is main/sub per event/circumstances/variable.

My opinion, even if it doesn't sink in much, all the rest of the slots are BiS, and the on the fly variable for completionist's should only be what main/sub/ammo/ranged you're choosing to rock.

/insertprovemewrongatacardtable.jpg

Edit: hope I didn't spell the word build wrong, habahabAbaha!!
 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2021-02-24 21:46:58
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
So since I got the Mpaca set 48 hours ago I have done a ton of testing and this set is quite impressive, I have put together a video showing how it compares to our other end game sets in actual game play. I'm quite excited about our new potential! Counter Set is also tested in video.

YouTube Video Placeholder

Holding that volume of Apex without even breaking a sweat is actually pretty impressive. Well done.
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By Kikomizuhara 2021-02-24 22:39:24
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I was struggling to think of any reason to round up a lot of mobs like that on nin. Maybe for Odyssey segment farming?

Love seeing new ideas for builds though ^^
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-24 22:47:24
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Kikomizuhara said: »
I was struggling to think of any reason to round up a lot of mobs like that on nin. Maybe for Odyssey segment farming?

Love seeing new ideas for builds though ^^

That was definitely an over the top example but it was mainly to show how well Ninja can tank groups of mobs now. Most practical applications are gathering all the mobs in Omen to easily cut thru with your dd's, pulling lots of mobs in odyssey as you mention, pulling groups of mobs on any difficulty in Dyanmis-D etc. There are some ambuscade months where the PLD or RUN needs to hold a lot of mobs and NIN is just automatically excluded there, some of those may be more possible now. So it's really those circumstances that I see this set coming into play.
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By Kikomizuhara 2021-02-24 23:10:38
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I see. It's like nin can start mass pulling like a pld/run would do for events.
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2021-02-25 02:26:47
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For those counter builds, don't neglect accuracy since you still need to hit the mob to actually counter it.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-25 05:05:34
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Quetzalcoatl.Khajit said: »
wall to your right

This is the most important thing when lining up mobs. With wall on your left, some (sometimes a lot) mobs will always stay on your side or even try to go around you.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-25 06:22:49
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
Kikomizuhara said: »
I was struggling to think of any reason to round up a lot of mobs like that on nin. Maybe for Odyssey segment farming?

Love seeing new ideas for builds though ^^

That was definitely an over the top example but it was mainly to show how well Ninja can tank groups of mobs now. Most practical applications are gathering all the mobs in Omen to easily cut thru with your dd's, pulling lots of mobs in odyssey as you mention, pulling groups of mobs on any difficulty in Dyanmis-D etc. There are some ambuscade months where the PLD or RUN needs to hold a lot of mobs and NIN is just automatically excluded there, some of those may be more possible now. So it's really those circumstances that I see this set coming into play.

Im not sure if that evasion will be enough for Dynamis wave 2 or 3 or for Odyssey. In path B I need SV mambos on BLU to cap evasion. Without SV Im not even close I think and without SV Im at ~1200+ (not sure how much I get from sushi exactly) evasion. I imagine its even worse in path C.
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-25 06:55:57
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SimonSes said: »
Phoenix.Logical said: »
Kikomizuhara said: »
I was struggling to think of any reason to round up a lot of mobs like that on nin. Maybe for Odyssey segment farming?

Love seeing new ideas for builds though ^^

That was definitely an over the top example but it was mainly to show how well Ninja can tank groups of mobs now. Most practical applications are gathering all the mobs in Omen to easily cut thru with your dd's, pulling lots of mobs in odyssey as you mention, pulling groups of mobs on any difficulty in Dyanmis-D etc. There are some ambuscade months where the PLD or RUN needs to hold a lot of mobs and NIN is just automatically excluded there, some of those may be more possible now. So it's really those circumstances that I see this set coming into play.

Im not sure if that evasion will be enough for Dynamis wave 2 or 3 or for Odyssey. In path B I need SV mambos on BLU to cap evasion. Without SV Im not even close I think and without SV Im at ~1200+ (not sure how much I get from sushi exactly) evasion. I imagine its even worse in path C.

With the Mpaca set i'm right at 1200 Evasion no food (1205 Mpaca, 1292 w/ Mal Full Eva) so looks like I'll be similar to your blu situation in Needing SV. Intend to play with this a lot over the coming weeks to see if anything has changed. Will be reporting back.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-25 07:14:09
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
With the Mpaca set i'm right at 1200 Evasion no food (1205 Mpaca, 1292 w/ Mal Full Eva) so looks like I'll be similar to your blu situation in Needing SV. Intend to play with this a lot over the coming weeks to see if anything has changed. Will be reporting back.

With 1200 evasion before food you should be able to probably cap evasion with just food and noSV Mambo x2 or maybe even with just Dragonfoe Mambo alone if cast with +9 skill.
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 Asura.Pusheen
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By Asura.Pusheen 2021-02-25 11:33:12
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Looking for eva food options.

This is what im using to Nin/drk pull in odyssey idle/yonin/utsusemi with mambos (SV when applicable)

ItemSet 378280

This set before any bonus to Yonin or Food (or anything) is roughly 1300 Eva.
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By Nariont 2021-02-25 11:50:18
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salt ramen and altana's repast are the only foods that give any real value of evasion
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 Asura.Kitfoxtrot
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By Asura.Kitfoxtrot 2021-02-25 12:52:29
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Interesting video-

The only piece I initially had an eye on for potential tanking over what we already had (malig) was the body with counter and killer effect (given the evasion stat are same, though good chunk more AGI on malig and dt/-phys are comparable based on how you spread your stats w/other gear) with your video it looks like there's some potential in certain situations where extra defense on mpaca & combined killer effects can shine.

Mpaca does have a ton of mdb, curious how that'll play out vs m.eva for some content. M.eva as of current is pretty reliable (maybe not as much in future content?) especially with stuff like addle/vex.

Might add in some counter for midcast- mpaca body & empy pants but would be giving up some enmity/evasion/dt

With some quick weapon bash's it looks like the killer effects on mpaca are just the normal intimidation rate, wasn't expecting like founders/bst body but one could hope :p
 Asura.Kitfoxtrot
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By Asura.Kitfoxtrot 2021-02-25 16:43:08
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ItemSet 378310
Andartia's Mantle: -10phys

Depending on situation but something like this could cover you @
-23% mdt w/o shell
-52% phys (2% over cap)

Covers your dt for phys/magic(mostly), get the highest stat from killer pieces +5 x2 and still a good amount slots open to pepper in what you need/want.

Or if wanna burn a ring slot on d.ring
ItemSet 378312
-24%mdt w/o shell
-49 phys
+2 more killer than set above AND can burn that defensive cape slot on something like parrying (oh how I wish nin got inquarta)

The only reason I dont like 2nd set is, well...I don't want to make another cape due to room w/parrying and like the -10phys for my other non-pure tank sets.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-25 17:58:10
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I have seen a few Ninjas talk about this DT set and they happen to be including Tsuru katana and are on Asura server. So who wants to team up and do some V+15 Marmokrebs so we can get some RP for it? xD
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-02 22:35:13
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Here's an all-purpose tanking set I have been working on that's not quite complete. Can improve in a few areas (cape can be HQ, the OH is only R4, and I am losing 50 HP from Tuisto Earring swap since I used it all between Tuisto+Odnowa +1 combo). I was inspired by Logical's video about Mpaca set, and noticed it has higher HP and defense than malignance, as well as killer stats. Started playing around with the new katana and then I decided to try out a new style of tanking on NIN. Full HP, PDT, Defense, no gear swaps Yonin shadow tanking. Just maintain high *** HP/DEF/Shadows and get curebombed while you spam shadows for hate

3900 HP, 2035 defense, caps PDT, 11% DT using 5/5 Yonin merits, Defender, Omelette.




Slightly modified set with a bit more HP and lower defense, Ashera for DT instead of PDT and more HP (44 MP from Ashera to make Tuisto Earring work, only 6 MP loss now), but puts you at 4100+ HP and caps MDT as well. This was as high as I could get it while playing around, but can break 4200 with HQ cape.



Decided to go mess around in in VD1 ambu to see how well the first set held up. Did good even after trusts died due to positioning. The intimidation was a nice touch. I wasn't swapping in empyrean feet or ambu cape for 2 extra shadows, was just staying locked into the set for the max HP boost. Can obviously do that for a tiny bit more damage mitigation in exchange for ~300 HP dips.

YouTube Video Placeholder


Edit: went back in today with dancer sub using the second set, and was basically able to hold these two mobs indefinitely. Dismissed the trusts and was able to continue tanking for another 7 minutes with just waltzes, shadows, and yonin (was mostly buffless during this time). Only risk is when Yonin gets dispelled. I think it could be a very effective tanking strategy to employ when you have multiple monsters constantly stripping shadows and need extra bulk HP to push through. Like that Mamool Ja (aura) ambuscade we recently had.
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By Sylph.Reain 2021-03-09 02:35:03
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There seems to be reports on the comments on this JP blogpost that the TP Bonus on Mpaca's Cap isn't functioning properly.

http://vanafratello.seesaa.net/article/480323478.html

If it's not hopefully it's fixed in the update.
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