The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

DPS difference is higher than I expected, thanks for providing those numbers Capu.


On a side note, what do you guys use your Kendatsuba Samue +1 for? Other than for TP and Meva builds of course.

Blade: Hi. Mummu+2 has more AGI, but TA+6% more than makes up for thatmakes up for that in some situations. EDIT: thanks for the additional comment, Sechs!

Uuuuh you sure Capu?
With set bonus it's a 15 AGI difference and 17 DEX difference, with set bonus D: D: D:
(Kendatsuba also has +5 STR)

15 AGI especially is a lot for Blade: Hi for just TA+6% to compensate it.
Tested it fast on the spreadsheet and I'm getting Mummu+2 (set bonus) winning.
Unless I'm doin something wrong or something is broken in the spreadsheet.



Anything else Kendatsuba +1 can be BiS or at least very very good for, that hasn't been listed already? I can't think of anything else.

u never on!

who are you °-°

Lol before this WSD across all hits deal I was using Ken body for blade: ku for when doing the multi step darkness, and I would use it for jin

It varies for me depending on buffs/tarets. Sometimes Mummu+2 does indeed win, sometimes Ken+1.

Is your WS set capping accuracy? If so, I tend to get Ken+1 winning. If uncapped acc, that DEX edge on Mummu+2 is probably the main reason it pulls ahead. Try playing with your spreadsheet scenario by tossing some extra acc in the custom line to see if you're capped/uncapped, and you might get different results.

Good comment though, and I should probably re-evaluate my own sets based on what I'm doing on NIN (i.e., Divergence wave 3 it's probably wise to use a higher acc set with Mummu body)

In any case, probably not the most relevant thing for most NINs since Hi has less usefulness for non-Kannagi mainhands. But it's a thing that I do use Ken+1 body for frequently - obviously the piece is primarily useful as a killer TP body though.


What are you using now? Do you have a strong WSD Herculean Vest?

(I should really check my Ku sets with these changes, and I do happen to have a WSD+8% DM augmented Herc body...)

I have DM body for 10% WSD 10 VIT 7 att/acc

Been starting to get serious about nin lately and wondering how up to date the OP gear sets are? Does anyone have an updated lua or does anyone have updated item sets in their profile I could look at?

I've been augmenting my Kikoku as its the only rema I currently have, but I'll be picking up the Fudo Masamune as soon as I find one at a decent price for tanking and offhanding. Probably won't have the Aeonic Katana finished for a month or so.

Has anyone more skilled than me at creating accurate spreadsheet models figured out how to account for A/B path Divergence weapons yet? It feels like Fudo Masamune B path in particular might be very powerful in mainhand, possibly enough so to make the weapon a BiS mainhand (at least situationally, like on difficult targets where you can take advantage of the large acc/atk amounts).

For some very rough estimation, I plugged in DA+50% and get it demolishing the mainhand competition on difficult targets. However, that's obviously not the same as the actual "follow-up attack +50%", since:
(1) DA won't proc if a QA/TA proc happens, due to multi-attack priority (and we're talking about a TP set with TA+28%/QA+2%, so that's a significant amount of attacks, and
(2) Follow-up attack won't be applying to both hands as DA/TA/QA would, just the mainhand.

Also, if someone who is willing to check the spreadsheets could also adjust WS for the new WSD applying to all hits aspect... that would be pretty helpful ;) (especially relevant for Blade: Shun and Ku, from a NIN perspective)


They're pretty much up-to-date, with the exceptions of:
(1) the TP sets lacking the new JSE neck. Obviously Ninja Nodowa +2 is best, but even the +1 with augments will beat previous BiS.

(2) Some of the DW sets might have changed with AF/Relic DW options (particularly legs might be worth using AF or Relic, if needing DW). For "serious" TP optimization you're going to have capped haste anyway, so the zero DW set is the most important one to be sure you get right.

For sets with uncapped haste, I haven't tested these in detail with all of the current DW options, but the main priority is that you will want to add DW to hit 80% delay reduction cap based on your level of haste received. Cheat sheet, you'll want the following amounts of DW for the below common levels of haste (these examples do not account for 5% or 10% JA haste from DNC or /DNC Haste Samba)... so mix and match your gear accordingly:

* 0 magical/ja haste: DW+38~39%
* 15% magic haste (i.e., Haste 1 only): DW+32%
* 30% magic haste (i.e., Haste 2 only): DW+20~21%
* Capped magic haste (i.e., haste + BRD or GEO buffs, haste II + Mighty Guard): DW+0

I'd also take minor exception with some of the TP gear decisions, but that mostly comes down to buffs and whether you're capped/uncapped acc/atk. If you're assuming capped everything, the OP sets work. For more challenging content, I'd probably lean toward a TP set more like the following (without some of the lower acc pieces such as Dedition and Samnuha):
ItemSet 361681

A few additional Su3 armor notes:
- Kendatsuba +1 body is pretty much always viable.
- Legs/Feet +1 I use almost always on "serious content", but Samnuha Trousers/Herculean Boots are good on easier content.
- Kendatsuba+1 head/hands viable too for high-acc and/or high-Meva situations, though I default to Adhemar+1 head/hands.

for follow up attacks just add the rate to the main hand hits per round. i don’t know enough about the spreadsheet to modify it but 50% follow up attack would be plus 0.5 hit per round. i’d think you could do if cell whatever is fudo b add 0.5 just for main hand and on tp phase only.

ItemSet 356085 This is a fairly easy TP set to obtain its about 4 months old but doesnt cost much gil at all

ItemSet 361684
This is my capped MA haste set, att path head acc path hands, mantle is DEX20 ACC/ATT20 MEVA 25 STP 10

GET THOSE RED EARS OUT OF HERE MF

OLD SET BOSHI OF THE PEOPLE

The front page's TP set is dandy and up to date. Obviously the neck is the biggest and newest improvement with the Daken enhancements. HQ Moon necklace is still very good for NIN, but I'd argue the +1 neck is at least better than it, given the Daken+racc bonuses. NQ probably is also, so that's likely the progression (HQ2/HQ1/NQ Nodowa/HQMoon.

Seki Shuriken for those not using gearswap, you can downgrade to Happo nq for Sange, which is buyable from NPC. Kendatsuba Samue+1 is one of the priciest items in that set, but easy to get. The sets all are up-to-date it appears, it just doesn't include the min-max offhand Fudo options, but that's likely BIS for most builds anyways.

I havent played NIN in a long time since I mastered it and pretty much 100%'d it, but will jump back into it once I get neck+1/fudo masamune.

I wanted to look into seeing if +3 hands would be good now w/ +2 neck for daken, think you can get like 97% daken or some crap like that idk i was half asleep

If using NIN SU5, best offhand will still be kanaria or ochu? If used for tank/DD.

Id say yeah like a max ochu would be great

I really can't ever see +10 daken proc rate being worth giving up Adhemar +1's STP+7 on every melee+daken hit (when you're likely hitting frequent 4-7 total attacks per round) and TA+4%.


40% trait
14% gifts
25% neck
10% Relic +3 body
10% AF +3 hands
---
99% Daken rate, but IDK if it's capped at some lower level (80%, 95%, etc.)

And of course, that isn't the actual success rate since after the JA proc you still have to pass Racc check (although AFAIK, there's a native Racc+100 bonus to Daken). You're pretty much always gonna have lower Racc than melee Acc though, so more risk of not capping.

I mentioned +3 hands a few pages back, but there isn't a scenario that I know of where Daken+10 and a bit higher racc (cuz of throwing skill and racc) comes close to beating Adhemar +1. TA+4 STP+7 are two of the stats Hachiya Tekko +3 is competing with. You'd have to math it out, but something crude (10/100 vs 8/100) completely ignores the STP per hit.

Perhaps if your STP/MA rate is so high in a Sam's roll set that Daken edges it out, or when fighting something where your racc would be an issue to an extent. I don't think it would win though.

Even an 74%~ Daken rate with capped HQ1 neck is still amazing without the hands.

Well, since Fudo Masamune isn't EX... two of them is probably best on high end content when you're mainhanding a path C.

Below that, Ochu or Kanaria (depending on augments) or Mochizuki (HQ1 Divergence katana)

Or for a heavier tanking focus at the expense of some DPS, there are lots of viable options based on exactly what kind of tanking you're doing:
- Nagi (for Enmity, assuming the Enm+ on the weapon works from offhand, someone please test this to confirm before I finish mine!)
- Shuhansadamune (Enm/Eva/Counter/FC/PDT, a little bit of everything tanky)
- Shigi (for recast delay, assuming you can deal with the Enm-10)
- Tancho +1 (SIRD-35%)
- Raicho +1 (MDT-7%)

Thanks for the answers. I've already purchased Kend. body and hands +1, working on legs next. I'll definitely be picking up the Su5 katana and the +2 neck as soon as all the price fixing stops happening and the prices stabilize a bit more on Asura.

I highly doubt it is, and it's probably designed exactly the same as Kick Attacks as far as cap + logic is concerned. (KA = if h2h and have trait = OK; else no KA. Daken = if shuriken + trait = OK; Else no Daken).

It probably caps at 100%, just previously there was no way to hit it. See SE's explanation of KA cap

https://translate.google.com/translate?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/3265.html


I'll bet they were lazy and created both abilities similarly.

Thanks for the link, Buukki. I suspect you're absolutely right, Daken did always feel a lot like NIN Kick Attacks equivalent, so I would not be surprised at all if it was coded the same way. Still going to be subject to the hit rate cap too, which I assume is the standard 95% (and not 99% like a mainhand 1h weapon).

WSD change should apply to all hits; the offhand hit is mechanically identical to additional hits and multi-attack hits other than which weapon's DMG is used for calculation.

OK I updated the above to include the column H (offhand hit) calculation group.
That alone makes a big difference in damage for these 1h WS.

So someone showed me that a lot of the spreadhseets have slightly different numbering systems... I changed the explanation to be a little more vague, because you cant copy the exact sample into those, effectively you are just adding parenthesis and multiplying by WSD.
So if it doesnt make sense, ignore it until people fix and upload spreadsheets lol.

Threw the changed NIN spreadsheet on github if anyone wants to grab and review. github

Acc was capped.
Att wasn't.
I was buff-less.
I also tried with "mid buffs" sort of setup. Didn't try with capped att.

DEX probably added 1-2% more Crit rate as well because of dDEX.


Btw I'm not advocating AGAINST Kenda+1, I just finally got one, if anything I was looking for more stuff to use it other than just TP and Meva lol
(I bet Kenda would totally win at capped Crit rate, but that's very unlikely to happen though if you ask me)
I'm not bothering with the WSD changes because I expect SE to revert it next patch, but who knows, maybe it will stay, we'll find out soon.