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[dev1135] New Special Job Abilities
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-08-04 17:30:24
Valefor.Monkeynutz said: »As awful as most of these are, I'm still holding out for the merit system to increase their effectiveness. If they're designed to be enhanced then I would expect the base to be underwhelming. Let's just hope that the enhancements aren't all 'adds 5 seconds to the duration' and the like.
That said, I'm probably giving SE too much credit.
So how do you see SCHs 2hr being increased in effectiveness? Enlighten me please.
The only way I see this being increased in effectiveness is by making it where you direct hate to a target and there is no way ANYBODY in the party can steal hate from target for a given duration. Yet that would be OVERPOWERED... -_-
Well that's for SE to decide, and they did say these would be meritable.
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By Valefor.Monkeynutz 2012-08-04 19:08:36
Valefor.Monkeynutz said: »As awful as most of these are, I'm still holding out for the merit system to increase their effectiveness. If they're designed to be enhanced then I would expect the base to be underwhelming. Let's just hope that the enhancements aren't all 'adds 5 seconds to the duration' and the like.
That said, I'm probably giving SE too much credit.
So how do you see SCHs 2hr being increased in effectiveness? Enlighten me please.
The only way I see this being increased in effectiveness is by making it where you direct hate to a target and there is no way ANYBODY in the party can steal hate from target for a given duration. Yet that would be OVERPOWERED... -_-
It could have the effect of +enmity gain for whichever party member was targeted and -enmity gain for everyone else, the potency of which would be affected by the number of merits. That's the only logical place I could see that going really, but honestly there's nothing logical about the new 2 hour ability to begin with so logic might not be the correct route to take.
 Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2012-08-04 19:42:35
If it hasn't already been mention Auto Mighty strikes can crit on weaponskills, but doesn't crit on Ranged Attacks or Ranged Weaponskills. While Autos ranged have never crit, I figured it might be possible thanks to the Pseudo-WS nature of the damage calculations (and it proccing dynamis ws mobs and Rubying).
EES for automaton differs from Rangers. Autos EES uses (Ranged Attack Damage*4)+6. For reasons yet unknown the +6 is only present on the Sharpshot frame and Mage Frame + Sharpshot head.
Thanks to Theytak of Siren for all the testing and findings.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-08-04 19:54:33
I thought they said there was a known issue with pup's, concerning EES and it firing off with mix-matched body/head combos.
Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2012-08-04 20:01:23
I thought they said there was a known issue with pup's, concerning EES and it firing off with mix-matched body/head combos.
It is a known issue, but it demonstrates that there's an unknown variable that determines whether or not the +6 dmg is added to EES. I'm actually quite disappointed that forcing crits didn't apply to Auto Ranged attacks.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-08-04 20:21:08
I thought they said there was a known issue with pup's, concerning EES and it firing off with mix-matched body/head combos.
It is a known issue, but it demonstrates that there's an unknown variable that determines whether or not the +6 dmg is added to EES. I'm actually quite disappointed that forcing crits didn't apply to Auto Ranged attacks.
balance man. That really would be broken lol
Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2012-08-04 20:40:48
I thought they said there was a known issue with pup's, concerning EES and it firing off with mix-matched body/head combos.
It is a known issue, but it demonstrates that there's an unknown variable that determines whether or not the +6 dmg is added to EES. I'm actually quite disappointed that forcing crits didn't apply to Auto Ranged attacks.
balance man. That really would be broken lol
I don't think it'd be all that broken at all. As it stands all we have out of this 2hr is Benediction, which is OK. A gimped Eagle Eye Shot, which is pretty laughable, a Chainspell that, thanks to terrible ai, spends a lot of the time buffing and enfeebling, and an utterly useless Manafont and Mighty strikes.
With that, assuming about 550 auto attack and a debuff dyna dc you're only looking at about 328 dmg per ranged crit (For which you'd see 2 on a 25 second timer)(1.40 ratio*1.25 Pdif multiplier*210 assumed damage) - And perhaps a Armor Shatterer that'd break 4k. It'd just be nice.
(I'm bad at mathing this game, so I don't know how much of that is accurate. You'd still only get 1/2 crit shots off, though)
Serveur: Shiva
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Posts: 27982
By Shiva.Spathaian 2012-08-04 21:09:29
That damage looks a bit wrong. Mostly because Automaton ranged attacks use a completely different formula compared to players which makes it a lot harder to math out right now.
If I remember correctly the best formula we've come up with essentially treats each one like a mini ws with a DEX modifier.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-08-04 21:11:43
Balloon, picture that mighty strikes (what is it, harle head?) then barrage, with the drum magazine on, with 3x wind after your barrage procs. That would be some serious ranged attacks and they would do some crazy dmg if they all crit (or if the Ranged WSs crit. AS is pretty sick by itself)
Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2012-08-04 21:19:32
That damage looks a bit wrong. Mostly because Automaton ranged attacks use a completely different formula compared to players.
If I remember correctly the best formula we've come up with essentially treats each one like a mini ws with a DEX modifier.
Yeah, I really would have no idea how to calculate it. It is calculated by something like =((floor(automaton ranged skill * 0.11) * 3)+Fstr+WSD of (DEX*???)*Alpha?))
I just did estimated by the dmg done to a level 0 Rabbit / 3, buuuut that assumes capped fstr so I think it's probably a bit lower? I really have no idea.
Point remains though, it wouldn't be broken. And it'd be nice with Smite > Shatterer > Light.
Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2012-08-04 21:24:34
Balloon, picture that mighty strikes (what is it, harle head?) then barrage, with the drum magazine on, with 3x wind after your barrage procs. That would be some serious ranged attacks and they would do some crazy dmg if they all crit (or if the Ranged WSs crit. AS is pretty sick by itself)
Sure, it'd do some nice damage. Azure Lore does some nice damage on Fodder, Mighty Strikes does some incredible damage for WAR. Harlequin cannot make good use out of Mighty strikes, I'm fairly sure it won't work for MM, Knockout won't do massive damage. It might be OK for Valoredge.
Also, I don't think it'd work out the way you think it would. You'd have to already be using the Harle head (or wait 3 minutes), once Barrage goes off you have to restack wind (so you'd get one crit shot off, with a 25-19 second timer before a new shot; you'd probably get 1 off). It'd be a really nice chunk of damage against mobs, but you'd have to prep for it beforehand.
I just think this 2hr is pretty eh overall. Giving us something that can do decent chunks of damage against some fodder mobs isn't too much to ask.
By all means it's not the worst 2hr out of the lot (That's bst) but it could be better.
Serveur: Shiva
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By Shiva.Spathaian 2012-08-04 21:26:08
It's been awhile since I used Sharpshot in Dynamis but last I knew I was averaging about that amount and maybe higher on ranged attacks. So I can see where it would be broken as that would make crits on them pretty damn high. Either way that's all speculation since I have no solid evidence with me right now.
Either way, even if they could crit this new JA would still disappoint me the same amount. I was expecting something a lot better for PUP.
By Smeggles 2012-08-05 20:23:25
As a THF and a DRK - I may use 1 out of 4 2hours now. Thanks SE.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-08-06 12:52:25
| 08-06-2012 12:49 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| | Happy Monday and I hope that everyone had an enjoyable weekend!
There is still so much feedback coming in about the new 2-hour abilities and we are doing our best to pass all of it on to the Development Team! However, the team will actually be on summer vacation this week, so we expect responses to feedback to be delayed a bit. We are hoping to be able to give some dev. responses next week regarding the 2-hour abilities. | |
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-08-06 12:53:52
How dare they go on vacation!!
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-08-06 13:00:30
I would laugh if this new THF 2hr would work like SA in term of stacking with other effects.
Just imagine Mandau + af3+2Bonus on lets say base 4k dmg (honestly I missed all test for this abi so i have no idea what bonus to swing it gives) 4*3*3=36k :)
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2012-08-06 13:30:48
Valefor.Monkeynutz said: »As awful as most of these are, I'm still holding out for the merit system to increase their effectiveness. If they're designed to be enhanced then I would expect the base to be underwhelming. Let's just hope that the enhancements aren't all 'adds 5 seconds to the duration' and the like.
That said, I'm probably giving SE too much credit.
So how do you see SCHs 2hr being increased in effectiveness? Enlighten me please.
The only way I see this being increased in effectiveness is by making it where you direct hate to a target and there is no way ANYBODY in the party can steal hate from target for a given duration. Yet that would be OVERPOWERED... -_-
Transferring the entire alliances enmity to a give target?
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-08-13 11:40:15
I'm pretty late to the party but,
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-08-13 11:48:27
I'm pretty late to the party but, (Image Removed: Profanity)
Drk's 2hour is nowhere near what it used to be but it's also very far from "uesless". I'm almost always top 3 DDs and, depending on the duration of the mobs survival, my melee damage is 2.5-3:1 my ws damage. Souleater is still a powerful force and if you don't have apoc you're stuck relying on a full time whm to keep your hp topped off (or your 2hour).
that's all well and good for abyssea but for some mobs like ADL we don't even have a whm.
i did chuckle at the pic though and sorry to be a buzzkillington.
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By Ramuh.Laffter 2012-08-13 11:54:31
also gotta edit "***" out of the picture :<
Profanity rules don't just apply to the LOL thread
 Shiva.Aisuu
Serveur: Shiva
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By Shiva.Aisuu 2012-08-13 12:00:05
I'm pretty late to the party but, (Image Removed: Profanity)
Drk's 2hour is nowhere near what it used to be but it's also very far from "uesless". I'm almost always top 3 DDs and, depending on the duration of the mobs survival, my melee damage is 2.5-3:1 my ws damage. Souleater is still a powerful force and if you don't have apoc you're stuck relying on a full time whm to keep your hp topped off (or your 2hour).
that's all well and good for abyssea but for some mobs like ADL we don't even have a whm.
i did chuckle at the pic though and sorry to be a buzzkillington.
I agree its not useless but unless they change it so you absorb your WS's too your going to relie on a whm with souleater anyways since you still lose HP from it but because its a WS you dont get it back unless its cata.
Lakshmi.Tanama
Serveur: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-08-13 12:12:09
also gotta edit "***" out of the picture :<
Profanity rules don't just apply to the LOL thread Alright, that's been taken care of via MS Paint.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 91
By Shiva.Paranoid 2012-08-13 12:34:41
blood weapon + souleater is nice spamming resolution with oat gs. keeps me alive
Bismarck.Zagen
Serveur: Bismarck
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Posts: 395
By Bismarck.Zagen 2012-08-13 12:37:32
blood weapon + souleater is nice spamming resolution with oat gs. survivability Does nothing for your HP recovery from Resolution itself so you still don't have any extra survivability than any other weapon/ws combo sans Apoc/Cata as Aisuu pointed out.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-08-13 12:57:35
blood weapon + souleater is nice spamming resolution with oat gs. keeps me alive
If only it worked like that.
VIP
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Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-08-13 19:38:25
| 08-13-2012 07:32 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| | Greetings!
The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.
To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.
Paladin
We will be adding the same enmity increase effect as Invincible.
The reflected damage can be increased via magic attack bonus and shield skill, but as we have seen cases where enemies were resisting it we have decided to increase the rate of accuracy and make adjustments so that it is more difficult to be resisted. We will also be correcting the bug where other effects such as reflected damage from spells would take precedence.
Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.
Samurai
In exchange for making the effect duration low, we will be making it so that elemental abilities are also evaded.
Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)
Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change. | |
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Serveur: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-08-13 19:45:43
I'm sure bsts are positively stoked that they are getting stoneskin instead of reraise.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Natlow
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By Quetzalcoatl.Natlow 2012-08-13 19:49:56
Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Serveur: Asura
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By Asura.Waldrich 2012-08-13 20:10:34
We're being trolled by Square Enix "AGAIN?
Bahamut.Celerez
Serveur: Bahamut
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Posts: 123
By Bahamut.Celerez 2012-08-13 20:10:36
I'm sure bsts are positively stoked that they are getting stoneskin instead of reraise.
well yeah... considering that if you go into it without RR in the first place... you're just bad and deserve the death that's coming to you... lol
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