The Pirates' Lair: A Guide To Corsair

After rolls I prefer to be DD as opposed to support on corsair as well. And in ideal setups, this is possible.

Setups are, however, rarely ideal. More's the pitty.

I value wins over all, and if it makes for a smoother run for my linkshell, despite my desiring to be pumping out damage instead of casting haste/dia II and light shotting...that's what I'm going to do. Makes me sick to my *** sometimes. But it's what I'm going to do.

We've been over this issue many times. At the end of the day be a team player and do what's best for your group. Don't chose whm cause it's great(it isn't), do it if it's a necessity.
Whm can't keep up
Bards are mules/idiots
In general the party is struggling with support
swallow the pill and do it. I've been asked many times and I die a little inside everytime I do it, but what can you do..help your party where it's weak, and if all is fine feel free to dd.

Precisely. And yes, we've been over it many times.

But I feel it necessary to respond whenever anyone comes down hardcore on either side of the coin. You've got to be fluid on corsair, as our role is always changing...occasionally as frequently as every update anymore.

Be like the waves carrying your vessel!

Kind of broken-record with Ramyrez and Sehachan's comments, but:

I find "never go /whm" CORs (and I used to be one) to often be trying to show off that they can place on the parse at the expense of a smoother run. Yeah, COR can add some damage. But if your backline is less than perfect you might make the run go more smoothly by quickly erasing DDs and helping haste to make the WHM's life easier. There's a good chance that you being on the ball with stuff like Paralyna and erasing Atk/Def down can generate more total DoT for your frontline than you would have contributed to the parse, or your quick support could be the difference between a MNK dying and putting your group out much more DD while they're weakened than your COR would add.

If you're running with a finely tuned group with a Yagrush WHM or something, OK, disregard that and DD away. But any time there's any doubt or you're playing with pickup players? I think it's safer to err on the side of support until you're very comfortable with your group.

Not to say I'm against COR playing more DD-focused, but I think it's wise to pick your spots and make sure you trust your backline completely. I'd rather suck it up and Dia/Lightshot, Haste, -na and get a win with a BRD/WHM who does nothing but sing than show I can get 12% of a parse in a run we lost because BRD-mule couldn't help out and the WHM was over-taxed.

I always try to keep in mind that if the difference between your COR adding DD power or not is a deciding factor in winning or losing, you had much bigger issues with your players/setup. Let's not overstate the importance of trying to prove COR is a big boy who can pew pew like the Rangers. You're there for your buffs, damage you contribute is a nifty little bonus.

I'm not saying you should never /WHM, but I don't agree with above statement and I think you completely misunderstood the reason why COR should DD.

The point of COR going DD in endgame nowadays, is more than "trying to prove COR is a big boy like rangers", but to get a *** spot in party. If you don't understand the meaning behind it, allow me to explain with numbers.

You said COR is there for buffs, dmg is just a "little bonus". Unfortunately without COR's dmg itself most of the time COR isn't worth a spot in endgame with just buffs, due to how weak buffs are compare with BRD(and probably even GEO). If COR isn't DDing, you better don't take COR at all or replace COR with a GEO in that case.

Have you notice most of the delve pt no longer look for a COR?

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/42990/looking-for-a-career-geo-and-maybe-other-jobs/

And when someone posted lowman setup on BG forum:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/120105-Neo-Delve-Lowman-setups/page5

"I don't think having 2 melees instead of 3 is a "better" alternative"


Now that most of the delve pt are 6 men, most of the pt would rather want DDx3 BRD WHM SCH. In order to add a COR, the amount of DD will be reduced to 2. And most of the time, DDx2 COR/WHM BRD WHM SCH is weaker than DDx3 or DDx2+ COR/DNC doing dmg.

For example, MNK using TP/WS set from MNK guide last page with relic 119, SV march x2 min x2+ mad on Tojil lv of target has 638 DPS according to spreadsheet. That means a MNKx3 BRD WHM SCH tojil pt will have 1914 DPS total.

Change 1 MNK to COR/WHM who only haste and dia and -na, basically your MNK gets chaos+fighter and enhanced dia, they got 810 DPS each = 1620 DPS total.

So yeah, having 1 COR/WHM(which only support) and 2 MNK in the pt is weaker than 3 MNKs in pt. So what's the point to invite a COR? You may as well invite another MNK.

However, a COR/DNC with Sabebus/Pulfanxa R15 path A in exactly same buff has 411~437 DPS. So a COR/DNC+MNKx2 pt can do 2031 DPS total.

Now you see why COR should DD? Because COR/DNC+MNK x2> MNKx3> COR/WHM + MNK x2.

It is not the matter of "You're there for buffs, dmg is just a little nice bonus" nor the matter of trying to show off. It is the matter of working to prove a job's worth if you want invite. Because the fact is, COR/WHM no longer worth a spot most of the time.

I was wrong to state one should never /whm, it is fine to /whm if you find your backline is extremely incompetent; however, I am assuming here at the whm is adequate at their job. I may be a bit biased considering I run with a linkshell yagrush whm but even on the events where our Yagrush isn't on our other whitemages do just fine keeping debuffs off and hasting.

/Whm if you feel it that necessary for your groups success. A brd should be more than able to cover the basic things you are hoping to do but lets assume it's a mule bard played by someone else. Unless you are crazy and having the whitemage dualbox a bard then it is fair to assume it belongs to one of the DD. That person should be able to dualbox their own haste, -na, etc. etc. taking more then enough burden off the whm in a 2 DD, Whm, Brd, Cor party. I like the idea that Afania brings up about proving a job's worth in the party that's a very good way to explain things.

Honestly though, most of the delve 6 men pt do event with 3 DD just fine, if the support is incompetent they still do delve with 3 DD. If you're going to fit COR in and reduce the DD to 2, it's still same level of support needed like 3 DD setup.

May update:

To be fair, 2 dds would reduce the nm tp gain, and that can be a good thing with one sch stunning. Also, in a hard event, when accuracy plays a major factor, you cant just equate the drop of a dd as a lose of dps. Having a hunter stacking with madrigal/prelude prob would be better than having 3 dds with just madrigal/prelude. And in those hard situations, its debatable if the cor dd will be really effective, as he lose a lot of skills with his low rank in all his weapons.

And about geo, i prefer to think they are prefered over cor due to their nukes, that play a major factor in dropping auras or weakness, instead because their buffs are better than cors (can be better, but that have a high risk also).

Not advocating about /whm, dmg is one of the cor diferential of brd/geo so they should do dmg when possible, also because its fun to melee as cor (personally i dislike to shoot because im cheap with bullets....), but as mentioned above, depend more of party than individual. Ls can pursue optimal setups/strats. Pugs dont, and as the pug leader can happen to not know the whm possibilities, cor/whm is the safe option, as dd cor arent that common still. It isnt smart a pug leader, inviting a random cor, to just ask the cor to dmg. Odds are that the cor dont have shooting gear, and meleeing there is a risk of the cor can be killed, and a cor dead is the worst of all possibilities, and prob is this scenario that makes cor/whm a prefered situation when you do a party with total random persons.

First time i read this:

The following rolls will be enhanced:



Wizard's Roll/Warlock's Roll/Gallant's Roll/Ninja's Roll/Puppet Roll
※The penalty for busting will also be increased.

I think part of my disagreement on the current discussion about DD vs. pure support is based on the fact I don't do pickup and run with a shell that almost always does an alliance, not a six-person party.

Besides Tojil's lahar I really don't see delve 1 NM TP move being THAT bad that it's worth dropping 1 DD for less TP move and easier stun. Even lahar isn't that bad if DDs are well prepared.

Tojil/Foret/Ceizak is around 20~25 min run with avg geared PUG(sub 20 min if you go with an efficient pt). Make it 2 DD you're probably looking at 30+ min a run, which can be a pain considering the amount of plasm you'd need for R15.



This is correct, the only situation worth bringing a COR is when you need extra acc after madrigal. However, when you put GEO in the pt then GEO is clear winner. If I understand how GEO work correctly, GEO is 41 eva down and 41 acc boost in same pt. Hunter's roll is only 60 with hat proc+ No.11.

GEO is preferred is not just because of nukes(you can have SCH to nuke), but it's also a better support mage than COR/WHM overall. It has better mage gears and better cure potency, it also has enfeeble skill for dispel/debuff. COR/WHM can only provide stronger Chaos and enhanced dia. The shots are limited when you really need dispel.





"COR can be killed" can't be an argument to ask COR not to melee. Or else I can just say "SAM/WAR/DRG/DRK shouldn't melee because they can be killed" Obviously any melee job can be killed, but they still melee.

Da DT- set yes plz. Turn when spike up yes plz!

I also believe COR got killed as a melee is better than SAM WAR DRK DRG got killed. At least a dead/weakened COR can still contribute DPS increase in pt via buffs/ranged/QD/dia+, a dead/weakened MNK SAM WAR DRG DRK is 0 dmg contribution.



The skill difference between COR and another A+ skill job is 20. It is a difference that can be fixed with tons of path B plasm gears.


You should, unless you're using PLD+RNG setup on something. Even then COR is bad DD in a PLD+RNG setup. COR DD is way more effective as a melee in a melee setup. RNG just shoot that much faster than a COR with better bullets, but COR isn't swinging that much slower than a MNK if equally buffed. Even if your COR can DD in a RNG+PLD setup, the lack of low enmity WS and decoy shot gonna kill you anyways(I'm still not sure how effective /DRG is). Until SE give COR some sort of JA like decoy shot, /ra COR is kinda meh.



It isn't smart a PUG leader, inviting a COR/WHM in a 6 person delve pt*

Fixed for you :) Most of the PUG leaders are smart enough not to invite COR at all and just go with DD BRD WHM SCH or GEO.

Why would they?

I mean, let's be realistic: you are a well above average COR. If a party invited you, yeah, COR+DDx2 would probably beat DDx3. With the typical COR you'd get? It's a FAR safer bet that filling with random decently geared MNK will benefit the party more, and do it in a way that is more familiar to the less creative players (sadly, this is important to the majority of players, they don't want to try new things when there's a popular way that already works). If you're able to use COR/DD in a trusted LS group and they trust you to let you do it, great. But if you're trying to advocate for changing the perception of the job among non-CORs and include COR/DD in cookie-cutter setups, it's kind of a futile effort.

And the impressions the rest of the COR community is giving is not going to help your case: I rarely even see other COR going /DNC and meleeing in situations where it's EXCELLENT to do so. I rarely see a COR with a 119 melee weapon (honestly, people seem surprised when I'm rocking a Sabebus). It's not that it can't be done, but again... if I'm a leader shouting for a Delve run I'm probably not getting Afania responding for a COR slot.

I personally don't worry much about just getting a party because I also have very well geared MNK and RNG. One of my jobs fits in most anyone's strat. Maybe that's lazy on my part to not be pushing for better recognition of COR's potential (and when it's reasonable to do so I'm ready with my daggers and bullets), but I'm done advocating against community perceptions at this stage in the game.

Oh, one other thing too... most often I play fairly late at night on PST time zone, so there's a lot of JP influence when I'm around. As we all know, JP tend to COR/WHM even more than the NA community. So maybe that influences me a little more than some of you. It's just more expected among the players I actually have a chance to do things with.


That's the truth. It took me pulling hate with a Last Stand on AA EV and having the backline eat an Arrogance Incarnate during a DM run (and me getting bitched out accordingly) to really hammer the point home for me though :P

I tend to also prefer /DNC melee because it does play well into the fact that, regardless of whether COR can contribute some damage, you're there for support FIRST and everything else second. Diligently keeping up steps will hurt your DPS, but will definitely be an overall benefit to your party at the expense of your percentage on the parse. It frustrates me to no end to see a COR who DOES try to DD but then gets so zealous about trying to prove they can be xx.x% of the parse that they forget these things.

I tend to pull hate as cor in almost every AA or DM run at least once or twice to the point that now I am forced to do cor/drg for every run where I am shooting. That tends to take care of a lot of the hate issues I was having you just have to be careful about timing your jumps in between AoE weaponskills.

If /DRG really make that much difference on hate issue, Seha should add it as viable SJ to the guide! ;D

Just throwing something out there that also has a place: /RUN

Lunge and Swipe combined with QD and elemental en- damage can toss around a lot of magic damage in short order(spikes when need to break shell). Additional the /run helps the survivability on the front line. (unda/vallation) for tojil for example)

Does it beat /DNC for overall party damage? prob not, but if you are thinking you need a geo to break auras, /RUN can do it near instantly.

Its ideal event setting is skirmish 3, where you run from one NM to the next while timers reset, with Tact. roll running, you start with a WS. So WS->QD->QD->Swipe->Lunge->WS makes for a short fight with those NMs that have relatively few HP.

It's a very good subjob I think for corsair who is there to try and do as much damage as they can. You still get some accuracy bonus from your job trait although I'm pretty sure its only I vs. II. however you get some hate shed so you don't repeatedly kill all the rangers.

/DRG gives:
- Acc Bonus I (same as /DNC)
- Atk Bonus I (same as /WAR, and it does affect ranged attacks)
- Conserve TP I
- High Jump, however, that only sheds 30% enmity from /DRG sub (as opposed to 50% for DRG main), on a 2min timer. You're still running a significant risk of capping CE and eventually pulling hate in any long fight where you're really focusing on shooting (say, a 30min D/VD high tier battlefield).

It's certainly not a bad combo for offensive focus, with a little bit of everything, but I dunno that High Jump is THAT big of a deal compared to other offensive-minded subs. You can always just be a little more mindful of how fast you're shooting with /WAR or /RNG, and still retain better potential to go all out as needed when you're not worried about hate or need some quick damage (say, trying to quickly get AA MR to attempt Charm while a PLD's Fealty is up ).

For subjob comparison purposes:

• /WAR lacks the Acc Bonus and High Jump, but gets Berserk and Fencer (TP Bonus if you're using a single hand melee weapon). Certainly better offensive potential if you're fine on Racc, though without any ability to dump hate.

• /RNG has Acc Bonus II (+22, versus +10 for tier I) and Sharpshot. Barrage is a nice tool too. If Racc is the primary concern, this may be the best DPS choice for your situation. Can also be nice to hold Sharpshot to maintain hit rate if you're cycling rolls and don't currently have Hunter's on yourself.

• While I wouldn't say /NIN or /DNC are typically chosen BECAUSE of offense (though DW is certainly nice if you're meleeing), if you're using those subs it's also probably worth noting that ability to use an offhand weapon can help you offensively. Trailer's Kukri, Aphotic Kukri, etc. Even for a purely ranged focused fight, sometimes shadows are nice insurance if you do pull hate or if you have to run in and buff, but at least you get something offensive from a subweapon.

All in all, my feeling is that if you really NEED to control hate so badly that /DRG is that much of a draw, maybe it's worth considering whether it might be wise to just not shoot so much and let the RNGs do their job. I assume this is with RNGs, because if it's a fight where hate control is important it's normally a RNG-favoring situation in the first place. Doesn't mean you can't toss some shots in, but maybe slow down there and not try to maximize COR DPS in that situation when it's more important to keep the fight under control...

As someone who doesn't run with any endgame ls, /whm is a viable option.

It's extremely rare, whenever I set up a Morimar PUG, or even a skirmish III, that a COR asks to come as a damage dealer. It appears to be the norm, and the reason being, is that because the PUG groups you set up, you can never rely on the WHM to be that awesome to the point they can haste/erase/paralyna/cursna/viruna/blinda/poisona (etc.) all the DD and keep them cured.

Sometimes I do find that awesome WHM who can do everything, but 95% of the time, I get someone who is only able to haste/erase/pp one damage dealer while keeping all the DD alive. Anymore then that, they will struggle and get stressed. I can't know just how good a WHM is until I run with them, so if I bring a COR, /whm is the standard subjob. I assign them to take care of a DD (usually my DRK) while a BRD has one dd, and the whm has the other. The damage of the real DD is always more important, and even with three supports assigned to each dd, you can bet your life, someone will be asking for haste, someone will be asking for paralyna, and well, you get the point.

Now, if a COR sent me a /tell and said they will come and outparse my DRK, then I would laugh and let them in, but that NEVER happens.
As a COR myself, in places like Morimar or Skirmish III where the DD pick up these status ailments every two seconds, I would rather be /whm looking after a DD that will bring the pain.

Don't get me wrong though, if someone let me know in advance that I could come DD the hell out of something on my COR, I would grab my daggers and be on the way in full attack mode. Once again, that never happens.

If I was in a proper endgame linkshell, where everyone knows each other, everyone knows each player's limitations, and the guys on the support jobs turned around to me and said.. you, stop being gimp, go damage deal, we don't need your help, then I would laugh and be happy that they are that efficient.

I use COR in Morimar during 8-9 man setups. I do 6 man setups too sometimes, but with 8-9 man, I like the DD to have two lots of BRD songs and COR rolls. Of course, the most important person is always the SCH, it doesn't matter who you throw at it, if the SCH sucks, well.. game over. (And how many times have I found seriously useless SCH? Way too many times)

So as you can see, /whm is a viable option for groups in certain circumstances. It's not the BEST possible subjob, but who seriously has the BEST players on the server backing you up every single run? I know I don't.

Or sub drg and shoot just as much...

^ Pretty much what Loire said regarding that. The amount of times a cor steals hate is usually once near the end of a fight, a 30% hate reset every 2 minutes is pretty great for that situation. You can certainly sub war or ranger if you feel the other rangers are good enough to make sure the fights don't drag on forever and ever but if you need to control hate why not use the subjob that will let you control hate with minimal lose to your overall DMG.



First of all, yes /whm is an acceptable subjob if your mages are completely unable to focus. Especially since you are using Morimar as an example I am going to use that myself. Usually you tend to have some form of nuking mage prep the Matamata so that's even less of an reason to need /whm on cor cause that mage should be available after that to heal/debuff/etc. Alongside that you are talking about an event where you are assuming stun being used to stop all TP moves. I agree again it depends on your Scholar's ability to stun which is neither here nor there. Assuming your scholar is godly and hits every single stun on every mob (very unlikely) there will be a total of almost zero debuffs that the whm needs to remove that aren't aura based. At worst let's assume your sch is mediocre and hitting 50% of the stun's making the event much harder but still even if he is hitting every other ability that's still quite a lot of time for your whm to toss a curaga + accession -na.

Again I'm not saying /whm sub is something you should never ever ever do I'm saying that it's a sub you should consider perhaps 1% of the time for old delve and possible 20-30% of the time on new delve. Obviously never for Ark Angels.

I just do morimar with MNK MNK COR BRD WHM SCH. Anything over 6 man make things much harder in delve1 zones, and not really worth it unless selling wins. Besides Kurma LS is usually 5~7k consistent dmg, and this setup usually ended up faster when it comes to kill speed.

"Support sucks" really can't be a reason to /WHM like this, the pt either suck at support and fail, or don't suck at support and win. There are zero room to /WHM and only have 2 DD in entire run.

Besides the first 25% of tojil, which needs formless dmg and only MNK can do it, I rarely notice huge kill speed issue with 2 DD 1 COR setup in all 3 delve zones.






I've received plenty of /tell spam to do Ceizak on COR in past a few days, even when I want to log off they wouldn't let me go D:

I admit I rarely receive /tell for Foret and Morimar though, but maybe that's because COR isn't as game changing in those 2 zones as Ceizak, and DDs are plentiful to find. Also COR doesn't need to outparse a DD to do more dmg than a DD. They only need to do something like 50% of a DD and buff + enhanced light shot+/DNC can make up the other half of dmg or more. Since buff+light shot dia seems to give DD 30% increase in dmg on spreadsheet. "50% of MNK" is usually the standard I set for COR/DNC in none piercing zones.

Is there really that much difference either way? /WAR /RNG and shoot less (but more effectively), /DRG and shoot more (less effectively) and gain the ability to shed some hate. I can't imagine you're going to come out with massively different overall damage results either way. Personally I prefer the extra damage tools of /WAR and /RNG for when I want them for shorter bursts of damage, but to each his own.

I'd also probably tend to just do less shooting period if a fight REALLY relies on hate control. I much prefer a 20 minute fight that's very safe to an 18 minute fight where I pushed it on COR and added unnecessary risk (of miscalculations leading to possible deaths) for fairly minimal potential reward. Especially when we're talking fights that cost 15/20 merits to enter, I err on the side of winning safely as opposed to taking more risk to possibly shave an extra minute or two off the time. Let's be honest, you're not swinging the win/lose portion of the fight based on whether your COR did maximum possible damage while riding the hate line. If so, your party had other issues much bigger than the COR's damage contribution. Maybe my stance is a little conservative here, but I'm happy with it.

And maybe obvious, but this /DRG conversation is contemplating fights where ranged damage is the only viable option. For melee friendly fights, other melees should nearly always have hate anyway so you would add more to the party by coming /DNC and using steps. Even if there's risk of AoE necessitating melee/NIN, would have to really look at whether your overall damage is better staying back at range with another sub, or meleeing with /NIN and firing off ranged WS.


I guess the obvious question is: wouldn't most people just run with DDx3 BRD WHM SCH, dropping the COR entirely for another MNK or some other pure DD job? As we discussed before, a truly top notch COR could probably lead to slightly better results than DDx2 CORx1 in that setup. But if you compare your typical COR to your typical "other DD", I'm guessing the 3x DD setup wins the overwhelming majority of the time.

Again, if it's a finely tuned LS party that's one thing. If your LS doesn't have ideally geared/competent players or you're introducing any pickup players into the party... I'd play it safe and just leave the COR out altogether.

I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but we're here stating obvious things over and over, and personally I'm really tired of seeing this sorta populism like in the above quote repeating many times.
More damage is more damage, contribution is contribution. Just cause you run with bads doesn't mean you have to be gimp too and be bad together with them.

We've been over when to use which sub million times, but at the end of the day if the party sucks it'll still suck.

I'm not sure why this subject is being brought up again.

By your logic I can argue that we shouldn't invite a WAR or DRG or DRK to morimar pt, because I only know less than 5 WAR/DRG/DRK on my server that can play them properly. Or I can argue that ppl shouldn't play MNK at all because 90% of MNKx3 BRD WHM SCH Tojil PUG still fail on my server.(True story)

Just because you don't know ppl that can play X job well, doesn't mean math is incorrect. Math shows COR/DNC + 2 MNK has higher output than 3 MNKs, whether you know anyone that can do it or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

I'm not bashing /WHM at all, I use it a lot, and I still use it quite often. I just don't see how /WHM can work in 6 man setup. I'm not advocating 2 DD 1 COR/DNC because I'm a big fan of the job or something, I'm just pointing out spreadsheet says it has higher overall DPS, which is fact unless I'm doing spreadsheet wrong(I may be, but only if you point that out). If you can find a COR/DNC, good. If you can't then go ahead and use another DD. But don't try to argue that it is not good because you can't find one, that's not a legit argument. I don't care who you play with, whether you want to play safe or not, this is a math discussion, not a "I don't wanna use this job because my friends don't have it" discussion.

The real question is: How many of you know a Death Penalty 119 Cor?

Cause to a certain extent that is crux of the problem in understanding between both sides of this discussion.

Honestly idk any in this game, besides some ppl occasionally pop on AH forums. I've never meet one in this game :(

There are no "sides" in this discussion. Idk about Devdas, but it seems that everyone else in this discussion does not have it. Personally I use Pulfanxa R15 path A on COR/DNC, which took me 2~3 days to get. Idk why'd a 119 DP even relevant in this discussion.

Pulfanxa puts out more damage than DP with melee set up? I'm just about at ilvl on my DP. Right now i use skirmish +2 gun for /Dnc. Also, what path should my Sebebus be? I don't have Vanir yet, but planning on it.

I know of two DP CORs on our server. Strangely enough neither one seems very concerned with DDing (at least in a pug situation). As for ls CORs like Devdas, they go all out and do a nice job at speeding up a fight. I'm not sure what you mean by DP being one side of the argument (are those the CORs who prefer to support and come as /whm?) but I've seen CORs contribute great dmg to a fight without a DP.