[dev1107] Job Adjustments: Ninja

Thx SE waste time on Sange when you could be giving us something we actually need like...oh....IDK....Jubaku:Ni. Is it just me or is that utter bs a lvl 60 mob has access to Ni yet here we are at f-ing 99 and no mention of it at all from Dev?

Just make 1 or 2 shadows absorb AOE and SE can continue go *** themselves with these dumb *** adjust for all other jobs beside SAM.

Just make 1 or 2 shadows absorb AOE and SE can continue go *** themselves with these dumb *** adjust for all other jobs beside SAM.

Great job SE! Now we can save some shihei (provided NTE doesn't kick in) while spamming gillions every 5 minutes! Oh I forgot, no NTE if someone is to full merit Sange...
Sange would be awsome if SE understood that the problem is about availability and cost of ammos (let alone inventory space)
Seriously, I suspect SE has lots of fun teasing ninjas...

Great job SE! Now we can save some shihei (provided NTE doesn't kick in) while spamming gillions every 5 minutes! Oh I forgot, no NTE if someone is to full merit Sange...
Sange would be awsome if SE understood that the problem is about availability and cost of ammos (let alone inventory space)
Seriously, I suspect SE has lots of fun teasing ninjas...

They're not teasing, I seriously think it has to do with how they think a ninja ought to be played. I mean look at NIN mob AI for crying out loud all they do is cast Dokumori;Ni ad nauseum and throw shurikens from a distance well away from where the action is. The same could be said on their descisons regaurding alot of other jobs.

Ninja mobs are doing it wrong.

dont know, i would like to be able to mijin, and have auto-RR like they do

Ninja mobs are doing it wrong.

My point exactly and because they are programmed by SE to do it wrong (in their idea of the way the job should be) their behavior will mimic the lackluster job adjustments we as players will recieve.

Technically mobs are doing it right...the playerbase however decided NIN=Tank instead of NIN=puller/enfeebler/backline DD like SE intended.

*fades back into the bushes*

well, being a backline DD using shurikens isnt effective. when they nerfed ranged attacks, they made throwing dmg have optimal dmg when used inside melee range, so why use when you can melee. also, i would love to nuke more and enfeeble more, but SE needs to change nijutsu dmg again, and add a tier 4 that does equal/slightly less dmg than melee, for when its a better option, like rex. more enfeebs would rock too

Besides the obvious lack/cost of throwing weapons, Ninja also has very poor ranged accuracy and no helpful ranged job traits. You need a bunch of ranged accuracy gear and capped throwing to hit anything worthwhile, even then you'll miss a lot and a naked Ranger would probably hit more than you.

"no NTE if someone is to full merit Sange" :
I can't see your trouble here.
Merit was always a question of choice.
You can have 5/5 NTE and 5/5 SANGE...
Or someone who wants 5 SAN and SANGE max
still have +-50% NTE, with Yonin and Koga Tekko/+1+/2.

Since shurikens are such an essential part of Sange, I wanted to share some information as there have been some requests for higher shuriken damage and delay adjustments.

　
•Explanation of shuriken parameters
The following is the basis for shuriken parameters:

-Lv48 shuriken (DMG 63, delay 192)
DPS is 0.328
-Lv60 shuriken (DMG 72, delay 192)
DPS is 0.375

With a level difference of 12, the DPS is increased about 0.047, so the DPS increases 0.0039 for each level increase…

-Lv80 shuriken (DMG 80, delay 192)
DPS is 0.416

DPS is increased 0.041 from Lv60 to Lv80, so the DPS increase for each level increase is lowered to 0.00205. If we continue to use the 0.0039 DPS increase for each level increase, the DMG rates would be:
-DMG 87 at Lv80
-DMG 102 at Lv99

“DMG 102 at Lv99” is a value for shurikens that can be synthesized. If this becomes loot from a NM, it may be difficult to obtain, but I believe “DMG 118 at Lv99” could be attainable. (Regarding Iga shuriken, I believe it is necessary to reevaluate DMG values)

One recommendation we have seen from a player is to have DMG 146 and delay 193 (0.760 DPS), but this is definitely impossible. We have no plans to do so, but this may be the range of stats of a relic shuriken, if it were to be created.

Also, regarding cost, it would not make sense for a shuriken to deal more damage than ammunition for RNGs that cost more, so we would like to reevaluate this aspect.

[source]

Just to shut you up cause I tire of this boring conversation and you can't figure out how to do the math anyway.
It takes 2~ seconds to cast utsusemi ni, 2~ seconds to use a job ability and in the previous post we determined the time required to make a throwing attack with shurikens is 4.59 seconds.
2+2+4.59 = 8.59 seconds, for 5(?) throwing attacks worth of damage and TP gain.
Koga shuriken is 88 damage, if the mob has 100 VIT and your base STR is 100 (close enough) it looks like you add 15 STR, so this will give you 3 fSTR, we'll just say you're using good food and berserk as well, since you got warrior on sub, this should put your attack around 900 and give you a pDIF of around 2.25
(88+3)*2.25=204.75 damage per throw, 5.5 tp per throw.
1023.75 damage per sange, 27.5 tp per sange, if all 5 hit connect


We already determined the real delay of a 210 and 201 katana to be 2.88 attacks every 2.02 seconds.
I have no idea what katanas youre claiming to be using outside of Kikoku, which I assume is 95 forever, so we'll use 95 kikoku and a generic 51 damage/201 delay lvl 99 magian katana.
so 60 and 51 base damage, the average middle ground is 55.5.
Looking at the TP set I posted, we see +21 STR. This gives us 5 fSTR. Attack value is going to be slightly less for the tp set, but should cap pDIF for 1 handed melee at 2 regardless.
(55.5+5)*2=121 damage per katana hit
121*2.88=348.48 damage and 12.96 tp every 2.02 seconds using your katanas.

So we'll take the shuriken time and dive it by the katanas time
8.59/2.02=4.2524
So if we multiple every melee value by 4.2524 we can determine melee damage and tp gain during the time it takes to use sange.
348.48*4.2524=1482.05
12.96*4.2524=55.111

So lets see here, actually using sange is:
1023 damage 27.5 tp
Meleeing with your 95 Kikoku and 99 Magian offhand is:
1482 damage 55.1 tp

LOOKS LIKE MELEEING WINS AGAIN.
I didn't even account for the hidden extra damage procs on kikoku and it's STILL WINNING.
now go away.

(4)

Last edited by wish12oz; 05-06-2012 at 03:35 PM.




[Signature removed by Moderator for being way too awesome and full of truth.]

lol