I'm getting side tracked. Being as that we were His favorite creation, He gave us complete free will. We are not bound to believe in Him as other creations are. It states that all heavenly creations are sure of His existence (angels, demons, satan, the beast). It also states that all inanimate creations are filled with this burden as well (the stones would cry out...).
I have to disagree here. We are given the illusion of free will. But this choice we are given -- the choice to either be slaves to your God or to burn in hell for all eternity-- is really not much of a choice, is it? That's not free will at all. Serve me or die. Be enslaved to me or burn. Cake or death.
Even less so IMO if using the bible as a measuring guide.
If god knows all, than god knew all the results of the universe prior to its creation, if god knew everyones result then choice doesnt really exist, and it means that prior to its creation god knew all the horrible things that would happen + most of the humans would end up in hell, yet choose to make the universe anyway.
Who said I have faith? My problem is that people like you make it seem like the world is so one sided against them and ignore the possibility that anyone else might have a valid complaint against them.
I think a lot of the world, or at least in the U.S. things -ARE- one-sided against atheists. I'd love to have a valid complaint against me ... because the majority of complaints have no evidence, no fact-checking, nothing but rage. The problem those with faith have is that as soon as science is allowed, the atheist wins regardless of the outcome, and religious people can't handle that.
I'm not a slave at all Liela. True freedom comes when you come to realize this world means nothing. When that is FULLY realized, it is quite easy to serve the benefit of others, and not to fill as though you are missing out on some personal gain. To know I am not measured by what I have or gain here, to know that My job, my video games, my truck have truly 0 value is actually relieving. We all die, and everything here passes. I don't feel in any way enslaved to try to make this place a close representation of what I believe will one day be complete.
It's funny when I read a post and nearly everything in it is exactly the opposite of reality. Your life, your things, the people around you are the only things that have any value. Religion destroys that reality and says you shouldn't be having a rich, full life because this is all meaningless when it's the only thing with meaning.
God. This is the exact type of thinking that makes people fly planes into buildings.
I'm getting side tracked. Being as that we were His favorite creation, He gave us complete free will. We are not bound to believe in Him as other creations are. It states that all heavenly creations are sure of His existence (angels, demons, satan, the beast). It also states that all inanimate creations are filled with this burden as well (the stones would cry out...).
I have to disagree here. We are given the illusion of free will. But this choice we are given -- the choice to either be slaves to your God or to burn in hell for all eternity-- is really not much of a choice, is it? That's not free will at all. Serve me or die. Be enslaved to me or burn. Cake or death.
Even less so IMO if using the bible as a measuring guide.
If god knows all, than god knew all the results of the universe prior to its creation, if god knew everyones result then choice doesnt really exist, and it means that prior to its creation god knew all the horrible things that would happen + most of the humans would end up in hell, yet choose to make the universe anyway.
Seems f'd up to me.
Again, you're taking part of the Bible literally. Whose to those that don't expressly say "God will you forgive me of my sins, I accept you" before they die a mortal death are the only one's forgiven? I truly believe (even at odds with my pastor), that the New Testament tells of a God that loves us so much, He changed the rules (yes, as you said, knowing we would be complete failures before even created us) and paid Himself the ultimate sacrifice for us.
I think living a life of loving others and trying to help them is a life that emulates Jesus, and you will be given a chance to accept and ask for forgiveness as you stand at judgement. If you chose to live like Jesus, He is going to vouch for you and you will not face the damnation of Hell (and later the lake of fire)
Is that a literal interpretation of the Bible? Definitely not.
Did I construe or warp my belief to fit in with evidence? Nope.
It is just my way of believing that makes more sense given how powerful not only I read God to be, but how powerful I feel him to be in my daily life. The last thousand years, other men have limited God by literally taking the "must have said the prayer and been baptized" nonsense to heart and passing it down. I say we break the mold, and not try to confine God into a clearly defined box of "this is what God is". If He truly is the creator of the universe, the saviour and father of man, the personal servant and compass of an individual, then He is far beyond our feeble minds' grasp.
He truly is the creator of the universe, the saviour and father of man, the personal servant and compass of an individual, then He is far beyond our feeble minds' grasp.
Maybe, but let me take a crack at it.
God created mankind in his image.
Mankind includes women, women have vaginas and men have penises, ergo, God is a hermaphrodite.
He truly is the creator of the universe, the saviour and father of man, the personal servant and compass of an individual, then He is far beyond our feeble minds' grasp.
Maybe, but let me take a crack at it.
God created mankind in his image.
Mankind includes women, women have vaginas and men have penises, ergo, God is a hermaphrodite.
You kind of debunked yourself here.
You said mankind. Ergo, community. God is the Trinity, a community. Father, Son and Spirit. Seeing as we aren't spirits, that must be a small part of each of us. Seeing as we need man and woman to perpetuate the species, we are community.
Ah, but what you are doing is changing the religion to fit your view of reality.
This is a nono.
Try fitting a universe with no god against your view of reality.
If you can do it, there is a problem no?
Religion is just a belief structure. I can change religion all I wish, that doesn't change God. Just because someone (hell, even if everyone) changed how/what they believed, it does nothing to God himself.
Just because I have morphed the way in which I believe it to be, it does not change that I do believe God did all of this. It does not change that He is more than I will ever be able to comprehend. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.
It does not change that He is more than I will ever be able to comprehend. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.
This, although I think you need to go one step further. You, nor I, can never know one shred of anything whatsoever about God or the motives He has. At all. You can never learn a single thing, only guess what He might think. It will always only be random guesses. Fun for a party game, but not a life direction.
He truly is the creator of the universe, the saviour and father of man, the personal servant and compass of an individual, then He is far beyond our feeble minds' grasp.
Maybe, but let me take a crack at it.
God created mankind in his image.
Mankind includes women, women have vaginas and men have penises, ergo, God is a hermaphrodite.
You kind of debunked yourself here.
You said mankind. Ergo, community. God is the Trinity, a community. Father, Son and Spirit. Seeing as we aren't spirits, that must be a small part of each of us. Seeing as we need man and woman to perpetuate the species, we are community.
Viola, we are created in His image.
I fail to see how this proves God doesn't have a *** that sometimes clumsily finds its way into his vagina.
So what we have here, is basically a state law, saying teachers can teach and impose their religious views. We are in 2012, yes? This just baffles me with biotechnology and what not.
I'm catholic, and I think that bill is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
It does not change that He is more than I will ever be able to comprehend. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.
This, although I think you need to go one step further. You, nor I, can never know one shred of anything whatsoever about God or the motives He has. At all. You can never learn a single thing, only guess what He might think. It will always only be random guesses. Fun for a party game, but not a life direction.
The common man takes bliss in ignorance. Most men/women do not wish to acquire knowledge to better themselves. It takes work/effort. Most people would rather follow blind faith because its easy and doesn't require work.
Take the bible as an example. For years most people were sufficed with a priest orating it to them. Most individuals could barely read let alone translate Latin, Greek, Aramaic and/or Hebrew. It took 1300~(founding of the Church to the KJV) years for a version of the text to be available in a language most people could read....
It's interesting that people for whatever reason people like to pretend religion vs science is some eternal struggle. That is not the story the facts tell. Religion vs. Science is actually a relatively recent phenomenon. For a large portion of human history monks were some of the largest proponents of science and most research funding came from churches.
Were they huge proponents of science because they were monks, or because they were educated? Monks were among the only people educated for a long time.
Remember that little factoid.
It still proves that being religious does not default one into avoiding scientific research. I for one, am thrilled at finding out more about "how". Religion should stay in it's place, as a hypothesis to "why".
Sure, allocate religion to something completely meaningless and pretend it has meaning.
Tide goes in, tides goes out~
Aside from your blatant oxymoron, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I'm saying that just because you can form a question with words, that doesn't mean that it's a meaningful question.
Hence, my example: tide goes in, tide goes out.
I'm alluding to the statement that Bill O'reily famously made to the president of some atheist organization. He claims that while science can tell us how the tide goes in and out, he claims that only religion can tell us why.
To this day, it's been a staple of religious mockery.
If you're asking "why" to a question that has since been answered and explained by science and physics, then it would be the wrong question to ask as it pertains to something of sentimental value more so than actual understanding to how our world works. Laws of nature, moral grounds or otherwise.
Religion is constantly a diminishing answer to things that would generally be unexplainable if not for the advance of technology, driven determination of humanity seeking to discover ourselves and the world we live in. Up to a certain point the sentiment of "why", becomes nothing more than a one liner set on repeat from a two year old.
Disclaimer: This is an opinion. To me, how has always been more significant and held more weight than why. One is merely poetry, the other is science.
He truly is the creator of the universe, the saviour and father of man, the personal servant and compass of an individual, then He is far beyond our feeble minds' grasp.
Maybe, but let me take a crack at it.
God created mankind in his image.
Mankind includes women, women have vaginas and men have penises, ergo, God is a hermaphrodite.
You kind of debunked yourself here.
You said mankind. Ergo, community. God is the Trinity, a community. Father, Son and Spirit. Seeing as we aren't spirits, that must be a small part of each of us. Seeing as we need man and woman to perpetuate the species, we are community.
Viola, we are created in His image.
Your twisted logic hurts my brain so much.
I find it funny that even with all of the evidence to the contrary, you warp your logic and views so much just to fit God into the equation.
Also God favors evil. Proof in video format below.
None of us know. If you are a theist and you die, you're dead. No one alive knows what happened to you. If you're an atheist and you die, you're dead.
If you believe the universe is a series of random, then we all die and in the end none of it mattered anyway. No amount of technological progress will save the universe from the inevitable heat death that will eventually destroy us all.
Why both sides argue over this *** is well beyond me....I'm more in the middle. The "I don't give a fuuuuuuu" region.
If you're asking "why" to a question that has since been answered and explained by science and physics, then it would be the wrong question to ask as it pertains to something of sentimental value more so than actual understanding to how our world works. Laws of nature, moral grounds or otherwise.
Religion is constantly a diminishing answer to things that would generally be unexplainable if not for the advance of technology, driven determination of humanity seeking to discover ourselves and the world we live in. Up to a certain point the sentiment of "why", becomes nothing more than a one liner set on repeat from a two year old.
Disclaimer: This is an opinion. To me, how has always been more significant and held more weight than why. One is merely poetry, the other is science.
my belief is we don't know, and at our current level, can't know. maybe at one point we will, maybe we will never know.
if i had to hazard a guess. i think all religions are just different realizations of the same thing, just like how different languages achieve the same thing (communication). i would say that the universe itself is a being on a different plane. so vast that we cannot possibly understand the full magnitude of it. maybe what we know is the universe is actually just atoms to another, even larger universe, and so on infinitely.
gnosticism/agnosticism has nothing to do with beliefs
Don't break his little shell, he thinks he's superior to both.
I think we can all agree that bills of this nature are dangerous, immoral, and utterly silly. The question is, how ought we proceed from here to actually make some difference?
gnosticism/agnosticism has nothing to do with beliefs
Don't break his little shell, he thinks he's superior to both.
I think we can all agree that bills of this nature are dangerous, immoral, and utterly silly. The question is, how ought we proceed from here to actually make some difference?
Oh I sent him a PM he's fine.
as for what to do from now, not sure I'm in VA not TN...
So what we have here, is basically a state law, saying teachers can teach and impose their religious views. We are in 2012, yes? This just baffles me with biotechnology and what not.
