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Voidwatch Rotations
Shiva.Keyera
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 217
By Shiva.Keyera 2012-04-12 23:44:55
Hey all!
In light of recent experience during Voidwatch, I've come to notice that there isn't really a set in stone way to rotate Weaponskills and job abilities for maximum effectiveness.
In many MMOs, WoW is such an example, one can vastly improve their DPS by figuring out a correct order of abilities and proper timings. While these rotations are documented for easy review for games like WoW, I've not had any luck finding something similar for Voidwatch gameplay in FFXI.
While many job abilities are no-brainers (Berserk, Warcry, Aggressor, etc.). Others' ideal use and timing may be in question, such as Hagakure. I've also found that other jobs can reach high damage with some good knowledge and rotation, examples would be DNC, WAR.
But I'll cut to the chase,
I've been meddling with some opening rotations.
Assumptions:
-300TP starting
-full temps
-all job abilities available for use
-Usage of ideal gearsets, for easy reference
-Usage of Relic/Empy
-Bard, Corsair buffs, and haste
What have you have good results with and is there a mathematically proven method?
Utilizing abilities such as Hagakure, Konzen-ittai, and conservation/usage of dusty wings are some of the grey areas I'd like to discuss.
Shiva.Keyera
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 217
By Shiva.Keyera 2012-04-13 00:14:26
I guess i'll begin.
Using the assumptions stated prior. The rotation I've had the most success with is as follows (based on parse results from T3 Zilart NMs):
Stage: Uptala, all temps have been used (save Champion's and Fana)
1) Use Fanatic's last, allowing for maximum invulnerability duration and Warcy upon engagement
2) Fudo @300TP, activates AM3
3) Champion's tonic, DoT phase beings
4) Initial Dusty Wing, obvious reasons
5) Sekkanoki
6) Shoha, TP remaining: 200~220 hypothetical } Debating on the use of Hagakure between these two shohas, which one will it benefit more?***
7) Shoha, self explanitory
8) Meditate
WS'ing at 100TP afterwards, general zerg strategy. refresh temp buffs and job abilities as needed. Should save dusty wings from this point to refresh AM3 or use them as they come for higher weaponskill frequency? I feel as though this may be a judgement call based on the amount of procs and luck with NQ temp refreshes.
***Pros of first Shoha under Hagakure to my understanding: 100TP cap, TP bonus effects this to a greater degree than one at 200TP (not sure of this, need confirmation.)
***Pros of second Shoha under Hagakure to my understanding: Save TP, allowing for a quicker follow-up weaponskill.
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By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 00:19:54
Start like this. Use temps, then fanatics. Tachi ageha, then pop wing, fudo, then meditate to 200 tp, use sekkanaki, hagakure, sengikori, all dd buffs, then konzen. Then shoha spam. Simple as that. You should be using 50 tp bonus atmacite and regain atmacite. Saving over 100 tp is just dumb rly. hagakure, tp bonus earring/atmacite will push that hagakure to 275 tp.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-04-13 00:23:50
Never use warcry, that ***sucks and overwrites blood rage.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 00:25:03
Never use warcry, that ***sucks and overwrites blood rage. "IF you have a warrior in your pty". I'm sure he is talking about sam haha.
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Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 00:25:55
/war get's Warcry, duh.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 00:26:44
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »/war get's Warcry, duh. K "never use warcry sam/war if you have a warrior in your pty". better?
Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 00:27:39
Start like this. Use temps, then fanatics. Tachi ageha, then pop wing, fudo, then meditate to 200 tp, use sekkanaki, hagakure, sengikori, all dd buffs, then konzen. Then shoha spam. Simple as that. You should be using 50 tp bonus atmacite and regain atmacite. Saving over 100 tp is just dumb rly. hagakure, tp bonus earring/atmacite will push that hagakure to 275 tp. They don't stack.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 00:29:47
Just checked that on samurai. That's kinda extremely dumb >.> Why the F SE lol.
Shiva.Keyera
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 217
By Shiva.Keyera 2012-04-13 00:34:34
Start like this. Use temps, then fanatics. Tachi ageha, then pop wing, fudo, then meditate to 200 tp, use sekkanaki, hagakure, sengikori, all dd buffs, then konzen. Then shoha spam. Simple as that. You should be using 50 tp bonus atmacite and regain atmacite. Saving over 100 tp is just dumb rly. hagakure, tp bonus earring/atmacite will push that hagakure to 275 tp.
I left out many common knowledge things such as which atmacites are in use (TP Bonus, Save TP, Regain are the big three).
I assume your statement about saving over 100TP is about my initial post-sekkanoki Shoha.
I've not thought about the use of Ageha immediately. I'll definitely look into it.
Never use warcry, that ***sucks and overwrites blood rage.
Assuming the WAR uses Blood Rage before i use Warcry. As a rule, i'm speaking of my damage output, not others in the party (If i notice blood rage, i'll hold usage of Warcry until Blood Rage wears, as it benefits more people in most cases).
edit: What about in cases where no blood rage or warcry from a different source is up? Some warcry is better than no warcry =)
"IF you have a warrior in your pty". I'm sure he is talking about sam haha.
*she, thanks =). A WAR in the party is commonplace and Rearden makes a solid point about Warcry. However, i've not had a case of BR and Warcry conflicting.
Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 00:45:54
If you're using Discipline (Save TP) you won't have to use Hagakure, as both give 20%.
Konzen is useless also, unless you're very certain that no one will be WSing when you want to make use of it.
So that leaves pretty much only Hasso, Sekka and Sengi that you have to "rotate" and you start out with them and repeat as possible/needed.
As for the other stuff, it's the same for all melees, I assume.
Use all temps as you stated it, engage+fana, activate AM3 and roll until your thumb is numb.
Edit: Well, and Meditate, of course. >_>
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-13 00:47:44
By what possible measure does the use of Atmacite of Discipline forgo the use of Hakagure?
Shiva.Keyera
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 217
By Shiva.Keyera 2012-04-13 00:52:56
Hagakure has benefits other than Save TP, if I recall correctly ;)
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-13 00:55:00
Not to mention Save TP stacks... so...
Shiva.Galbir
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1290
By Shiva.Galbir 2012-04-13 00:56:19
Wouldn't tp bonus x2 and a regain atma be better than a save tp anyway?
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-04-13 00:57:01
Depends, generally I'd say so.
Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 00:58:15
Hagakure has benefits other than Save TP, if I recall correctly ;) Yea, you're right, it's obvious that I haven't played it in a while.
Considering the 100% TP bonus then, you should only use it at 100%ish TP, as other TP-Bonuses and overflow will decrease the gain if you do it at 200% (to answer your 1 question?).
Shiva.Keyera
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 217
By Shiva.Keyera 2012-04-13 01:00:42
I think i'll take my leave for tonight, class in the morning and stuff.
I'm considering bringing up different situations progressively, in order to make to make for more dynamic discussion. Please let me know how you feel about that idea.
...and i'm tired as hell of reading arguements about what gear to use instead of discussion on strategy XD
Shiva.Keyera
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 217
By Shiva.Keyera 2012-04-13 01:01:34
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »Hagakure has benefits other than Save TP, if I recall correctly ;) Yea, you're right, it's obvious that I haven't played it in a while.
Considering the 100% TP bonus then, you should only use it at 100%ish TP, as other TP-Bonuses and overflow will decrease the gain if you do it at 200% (to answer your 1 question?).
No worries. And yea, that was one of my grey areas I wanted to cover, thanks for the input. Although, I am interested if the TP Bonus applies to a WS under the effect of Sekkanoki. Evidence supports that, as AM1 is applied afterwards (if applicable).
Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 01:08:30
No worries. And yea, that was one of my grey areas I wanted to cover, thanks for the input. Although, I am interested if the TP Bonus applies to a WS under the effect of Sekkanoki. Evidence supports that, as AM1 is applied afterwards (if applicable). TP-Bonus will be ignored under Sekkanoki, so you only get the 100%.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 01:09:05
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »No worries. And yea, that was one of my grey areas I wanted to cover, thanks for the input. Although, I am interested if the TP Bonus applies to a WS under the effect of Sekkanoki. Evidence supports that, as AM1 is applied afterwards (if applicable). TP-Bonus will be ignored under Sekkanoki, so you only get the 100%. Unkai kote +2 say hi.
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Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 01:15:58
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »No worries. And yea, that was one of my grey areas I wanted to cover, thanks for the input. Although, I am interested if the TP Bonus applies to a WS under the effect of Sekkanoki. Evidence supports that, as AM1 is applied afterwards (if applicable). TP-Bonus will be ignored under Sekkanoki, so you only get the 100%. Unkai kote +2 say hi. I don't have a Masamune, so do they make the TP add to the Aftermath too?
Or "only" for the fTP?
Shiva.Galbir
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1290
By Shiva.Galbir 2012-04-13 01:17:03
Only the fTp
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 01:17:30
Say you have 300 tp and you sekka, it will make your first ws 300 tp.
Shiva.Galbir
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1290
By Shiva.Galbir 2012-04-13 01:18:45
Yes but he's asking about aftermath and iirc it does not give lvl3 only lvl1. Even though it uses the same ftp as 300tp.
By Fupafighters 2012-04-13 01:19:53
Nope. Gives lvl 1. Technically you used 100 tp.
Fenrir.Ilax
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 466
By Fenrir.Ilax 2012-04-13 02:06:30
Carbuncle.Grandthief said: »/war get's Warcry, duh. K "never use warcry sam/war if you have 2 warrior in your pty". better?
Fixed your statement.
Shiva.Galbir
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1290
By Shiva.Galbir 2012-04-13 03:16:21
<if spell="Warcry" Buffactive="Blood Rage|Warcry">
<cancelspell />
<return />
</if>
Never have to worry about overlapping now.
[+]
Carbuncle.Grandthief
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-04-13 03:44:17
Didn't even think of that. =o
Great idea!
Cerberus.Kvazz
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-04-13 03:59:39
<if spell="Warcry" Buffactive="Blood Rage|Warcry">
<cancelspell />
<return />
</if>
Never have to worry about overlapping now.
That's brilliant.
Now we need to make it a mandatory rule so that others dont overlap our buffs. :P
Hey all!
In light of recent experience during Voidwatch, I've come to notice that there isn't really a set in stone way to rotate Weaponskills and job abilities for maximum effectiveness.
In many MMOs, WoW is such an example, one can vastly improve their DPS by figuring out a correct order of abilities and proper timings. While these rotations are documented for easy review for games like WoW, I've not had any luck finding something similar for Voidwatch gameplay in FFXI.
While many job abilities are no-brainers (Berserk, Warcry, Aggressor, etc.). Others' ideal use and timing may be in question, such as Hagakure. I've also found that other jobs can reach high damage with some good knowledge and rotation, examples would be DNC, WAR.
But I'll cut to the chase,
I've been meddling with some opening rotations.
Assumptions:
-300TP starting
-full temps
-all job abilities available for use
-Usage of ideal gearsets, for easy reference
-Usage of Relic/Empy
-Bard, Corsair buffs, and haste
What have you have good results with and is there a mathematically proven method?
Utilizing abilities such as Hagakure, Konzen-ittai, and conservation/usage of dusty wings are some of the grey areas I'd like to discuss.
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