Best Dagger For Thief

Does feint stack with quickstep, overwrite? Or do you just roll with box step and use Feint when the zone eva boost kicks in?

I don't want to go back and forth about this since it could get silly, but I think you're overestimating the THF DPS loss of bringing a good THF (if any exist on your server) these days. The +skill item update and 1H changes changed things pretty significantly and Feint is a big boost for Alli DPS during the silly zone evasion boost.

Josiah, I don't know.

THF has one notable advantage in that it can use Izhiikoh and COR can't, but I don't think that makes up for having to sacrifice a higher DoT DD slot for THF (since you're probably using a COR anyway for DD party buffs). COR has numerous other benefits: sword/Req for Mastop, Last Stand is realllly good on some mobs (boss), and obviously the buffs. Feint is kind of a non-issue since when you need Acc, the COR can just switch to Hunter's Roll.

And of course, even with THF's one advantage... DNC can use Izhii as well and has a better Haste Samba (and faster step debuff generation), so even if I was picking one of those I'd definitely go with DNC over THF.

That being said, most random CORs don't even bother to bring a freaking melee weapon, much less DW upgraded plasm daggers/swords, or even have Surefire or better for a good Last Stand gun... But if you DO find a COR with the right gear it can be really good in Ceizak. On Muyingwa itself, last time I went COR/DNC I used 2x Aphotic Kukri and ended up parsing 7.something % in a run with really top notch DDs, while also doing support stuff (dropping Evoker's on mages, steps/sambas, etc.). COR/DNC could contribute in other zones too and add some not insignificant damage, but I tend to find COR/WHM more useful overall outside of Ceizak unless your WHMs are really good.

I may be misunderstanding, but I'm not sure at any point Suji suggested forsaking buffs from a COR for a THF. As an aside, COR switching a roll on the spot like that--even if you aren't rotating CORs--means you're going to be stuck with Hunter's for at least two minutes (less depending on merits). Not sure that's going to be worth it for the 30 second gain, depending on which rolls are being lost.

As for THF vs DNC, I'm not sure who is actually getting use of the enhanced Haste Samba, unless the DDs have an alternate TP set to account for it.

The THF vs RNG comparison is a little strange unless you're suggesting the RNG is going to be getting the same buffs as other DDs (marches/fighters/etc). If you have a RNG party, obviously bring a RNG. If you don't, I'd bring the THF.

A THF can be quite comparable to most DDs nowadays, assuming that attack, accuracy and haste are all capped--as this eliminates most of a traditional DD's advantages (MNK's impetus being the first exception to come to mind). If any of those are uncapped, they will start falling very quickly behind.

As mythics become relevant again, the difference in DPS will obviously grow again. If attack and accuracy are once again an issue, it will grow even further. But as it stands, DD jobs happen to be at nearly the same level, thanks to painfully easy content.

This discussion wasn't a COR vs THF comparison. There's at least six other slots that require respective justification. It's pretty common to have at least one extraneous MNK.

No one is going to switch to Hunter's Roll just for the brief zone evasion since that would gimp you the rest of the time. Feint's timer lines up perfectly with it.

Fair enough. And you're right that it really isn't something you need to compare since everyone will be bringing CORs anyway, kind of got off on a tangent. I guess the real point is that both COR/DNC (which is a heck of a lot more useful in Ceizak than /mage) and THF are a bit underrated as DD contributors by a lot of the community for Ceizak runs.

It does hurt THF a little bit that bringing /DNC to the table doesn't add a ton if you already have other jobs (which would be there regardless) using /DNC. Still, a well geared THF is certainly no slouch in Ceizak and is probably an improvement over one of the DD slots in a lot of setups. Feint does match up perfectly with the zone evasion bonus, so that's nice. Kinda wish I was able to actually try it out on my THF some time...

As far as I know they used to stack, when I once tested on DC Nightmare Ravens by lowering my acc for a period and testing how much easier it was to apply and build quickstep with feint on and off. That was quite some time ago though.


Wouldn't everyone still have useless 99 Mandaus and Twashtars even if THF were useful? I didn't think people used either at the moment.

Bump.

Best off-hand dagger recommendations in a TP-build and WS-build?

Would Izhiikoh + Macoquetza (+309 Dagger skill) be overkill/dumb?

I thought you only gain the skill bonus of the main-hand weapon?

The skill bonuses only affect the hand they're in to avoid giving dual weilders an insane advantage

Hmmm ok didn't know that...thanks!

Assuming a Rank15 Aphotic would not be great then?

great for offhand i would think you still get the airlixer augmemt boost and the other stats on it

Oh so those stats still count in off-hand? ie: str/att

The actual stats do, yes, but the increased acc and att from the skill on the iLVL weapon only affect that hand.

A lil late there, Sheldon. Lol

Sheldon is never late, the distortion of space-time due to the weight of the Earth simply distorted your perception of time.

Best reply I've seen in a while lol

Just a quick ressurection to the thread asking about Vajra, any users out there have any opinions on this Mythic?

It's not that it's a bad dagger, it's that...
1. Mandau is easier to get and generally on par or better than Vajra DPS wise.
2. there are far better mythics that you'd make for other jobs.

Yeah that's certainly a fact really don't like following the trend kinda like to set my own why I would concider dagger excluding the obvious I love the job just been hiding back before I take that leap.

So... irrational nonconformism?

I've been using Izhiikoh/Atoyac on my THF lately and have been pretty happy with the combo. I have a 95 Mandau and 5 Marrows sitting in storage though. I'm trying to think of a compelling reason to spend the gil to upgrade Mandau to 119 versus using that gil to work on taking my Daurdabla to 99.

Anyone have a Mandau 119 yet? Is it totally knock your socks off?

I'd like to know this too, I'm slowly working on my Mandau. At them moment, Ive been using the Eminent Dagger and the Atoyac (still no Delve shark win). Could someone tell me which be best used in each hand? The atoyac has a greater base damage but the Eminent is a higher level with higer stats. Ive been using the Eminent main hand because of this.

119 Mandau isn't really going to knock your socks off anymore than the other high level daggers, what does knock your socks off is stacked mercy stroke with a 119 mandau.

i like eminent main and atoyac offhand