Random Question Thread (FFXI Related)

Yeah yeah I was talking about pre-MasterLevel Apexes.
I can't really tackle the new ones alone with just myself and 5 trusts, wouldn't reach the Acc requirements.
Thanks for the list though.

Jagils and Leech in Sih Gates are potentially interesting, need to go check how camped they are.

The spot youre talking about would be nice if there weren't 20 bots there

But still check, they may have relocated or may be gone when you look.

It's of course botted, but way less people in here than in Woh, Moh or Dho gates.

Mobs are a bit lower level sadly, and the killspeed is pretty much the same I had in Dho/Woh.


For example there's ~30 people in Sih Gates atm.
~100 in Dho Gates
~50 in Moh gates
~35 in Woh gates

Mandies here in sih gates are completely untouched (both camps/rooms) and totally free, but they're overly annoying so I guess that's the reason why nobody is bothering with them lol

I think I vaguely remember people discussing it somewhere here over these boards, but anyway in case someone didn't know yet, there doesn't seem to be a cap to the amount of Exemplary Points when you die, or if there is a cap it's higher than I can currently experience.

I died at ML23 (EP for next level is roughly 150k) and I lost AT LEAST 10% of that, which means AT LEAST 15k. I'm not sure how much I had when I died, it could be more but it's at least that.

It's... wow, quite intense.
Experience Points loss during the old days was a considerable amount as well but there was a cap if I recall, you couldn't lose more than a certain amount.

Considering how much it takes to get Exemplary Points (with the current rates) losing so much from a single death is quite... frustrating. Do we really need something like this in 2022? I mean even if we do, does it really have to be so intense?

You lose exactly 2% of the next level when you die without raise, which has been true every time I've died, including at ML20 and ML30. I still deathwarp when convenient because Odyssey keeps me capped out, so I see these values often.

You just miscounted/misremembered what you had.

Btw as ML 23 with 5 trusts I'm averaging something around 40k Exemplary Points per hour.
Which I guess must be very... low? Then again I do this with my brain turned off while listening to music or watching stuff.
It's low but it could've been worse.

The 20>30 grind is intense. If the 30>40 is gonna keep growing the same way 20>30 did then it's gonna be a problem, if we don't get better sources for Exemplary Points.

I still have a few support/mage jobs at ML0, no clue how I'm gonna get to 30 with the current state of the game honestly.

You're not supposed to be soloing exemplar points.

It's a thing you do in a party when you have nothing else to do. Not the primary focus and not with trusts.

(I know it doesn't actually work that way, you're expected to be m30 BEFORE people allow you to join stuff.) You're supposed to get mlevel FROM doing the stuff. Not max out, then do it.

We're not supposed to have 2000000 RMT bots shouting for JP/ML 24/7 keeping every *** camp busy and demotivating people from ever looking for party.

The fact the new monsters have such steep acc requirements (meaning you can't get any average Joe DPS in your pt) is the final nail in the coffin killing any attempt to create a pt.
I tried! Trust me. Tried so many times, you just end up with 2-3 people answering your shouts and then wasting 1-2 hours of everybody's time while tryin to fill up with other people.
And this on the most populated server, Asura.
I can't imagine how it must be on servers with low population.
It's quite excruciating.

I wonder how much of this has to do with the fact that a lot of people still don't give a *** about ML. Or at least that's my impression, I could be wrong of course.
With more people actually being interested, would the situation be better? I wonder...

The new monsters don't have steep accuracy requirements at all, really. They're significantly less than the Promyvion and Alzadaal ones.

Yeah I was talking about the Promy/Alzadaal ones, not the ones in Crawler_S
Then again they give less Exemplary Points per kill compared to Promy/Alza?
I heard they compare with the ones in Inner ra'kaz, which do have some acc requirements, but it's pretty reasonable even for average players.

Maybe it's because Asurans are used to paying for CP/ML so everyone just pay instead of party up?

I see a LOT of CN_S ML cleave pt shout on JP time everyday. So I don't know if people don't care about ML.


I think 3 people with tank+BLUx2 rotating cruel joke and sleeps can farm ML efficiently in CN_S, just find someone at low ML to sync for more EP. You don't have to go to higher level zones if you level sync.

they give less per kill, but exemplar chains are actually meaningful, so overall the lower camps aren't really worse unless you have an amazing party tailored to the higher camps

the biggest complaint, imo, is that you still need a BRD for every party and less than 1/6 of the jobs people want to master are BRD, so unless you bring a dedicated mule that isn't gaining anything there's a guaranteed shortage

It's been a complaint of mine for a long time that you need two jobs to cap haste. 1/3 of your party before you consider anything else is "who's hasting"

Yeah, you could do geo/rdm - indi haste + haste 1, then you give up a geo buff and it's still effectively costing you two slots.

(or, have the bard, but the point is bards are the hard one to get)

Anyone know how many secs between kills after Chain #30+ you have before chain breaks?

CP minimum is 30 seconds, probably the same for exemplar.

PLD RUN and NIN can in theory just call Sylvie instead and you can cap haste with her and haste I.

You 'can' 'in theory' do a lot of things, but if you want the most efficient party then you need the BRD. No alternative provides as much bang for your buck as a full DPS that also caps everyone's haste and (not necessarily completely)accuracy.

You don't need to do the absolute most efficient party, though. If you did, lots more jobs would be excluded from ML parties, like WHM.

BRD is pretty necessary at Empty and Gear camps simply because BRD's capability for accuracy buffs is very lopsided compared to other supports (meaning you end up with almost no attack after capping ACC at those camps without one), but you don't need it for Inner Rak or Crawler S. RDM GEO COR DD x3 works very well for great CP parties in Inner Rak or Crawler's nest (might even be able to have the RDM be a 5th DD and the GEO the healer if the RDM periodically just takes some time to haste and refresh people).

Uh, yes, you do.

You can also solo with trusts for literally weeks. I'm not saying it's impossible, or that you can't work without a BRD, just airing a grievance about balance(which is probably pointless, given the general state of the game's balance anyway).

No one actually uses the absolute most efficient party.

And most of the players aren't as good as they think they are either, but they lean into that ***full tilt.

Going solo with trusts is like 10-20% of the EP of a Bard-including party, while a good Bardless party can still get like 80% or more of a good Bard party, which makes Trust soloing not a relevant comparison.

Bard is not the only job that would be absolutely required if you're trying to envision the perfectly optimal setup, with BRD only being the obvious target because they're rarer than CORs, GEOs, and RDMs. In the camps where you actually "need" a BRD (Empty and Gear), you also need a GEO because not having Frailty and Fury makes them literally take twice as long or more to kill.

The actual main issue with MLs is that they're completely job specific in both accrual and rewards, which negatively impacts participation.

Unlike most content with endgame-level mobs, you have to be on a job to advance that specific job, meaning that once the BRDs finish, there's no incentive to do any more, effectively removing them on that job from the pool. In stuff like Odyssey, you can go on BRD to improve gear for your WAR, or your PLD, but not with Master Levels. Other systems that do this are generally much more relaxed in terms of what jobs get brought because the mobs are weaker (like Omen cards) and/or there are other rewards that don't depend on you being on a specific job (like Dynamis RP runs). Even job points, the predecessor to MLs, are much more suited to fighting lower level mobs because CP doesn't drop off nearly as hard as ML does (plus more people just outright buy job points).

In addition, the benefits that MLs give are both locked to that job and have widely variable impacts on that job's performance in endgame (which is supposed to be the actual purpose of MLs, rather than just a grinding simulator). Jobs like DDs that benefit a lot from basic attributes and jobs that use subjobs with important milestones above 49 get a notable boost, while others don't really get much of a bonus for endgame. Bard is one of them, since Master Levels don't really help Bards to do Bard things better other than a little bit of magic accuracy. Compare that to job points, which enhances the core purpose of basically every job.

BRDs simply get pointed out because the servers' supply of them ran out first. If the amount of people willing to ML BRD and GEO or COR were reversed, the exact same complaints would be leveled against them instead, despite the actual jobs not changing at all.

Same argument for COR, because CC Corsair's roll is +43~54% EP gain by itself.

A workable solution to the "Bard (GEO, COR) problem" is to expand the Grounds of Valor Prowess System and make all of the relevant buffs comparable to having a percentage of whatever buffs you sorely desire for EP parties. Add EP gain +% to the Experience Points prowess buff, to compete with Corsair's roll. Increase the Attack/Acc+ and Haste+% category to compete with Bard songs, Corsair rolls, or Geomancy buffs, so that it's a relevant value to today's standards. I have suggested this previously, I am surprised they haven't done this already. It would make leveling easier for everybody, and it would mean the sting of not having a BRD/GEO/COR/RDM would not be felt as badly, since each player can build their own individual prowess and retain buffs whether they have support jobs or not. Prowess also wears off when you zone, so people would have to build it up each time they join a party.

Add GoVs to every single zone that has Apex. Make the pages give sizeable EP bonuses for completing as well (10k every 25~ kills would be a nice chunk). The system is already in place and doesn't take any more than them just increasing the current cap.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/59309-Add-Grounds-of-Valor-to-all-Dungeons-with-Apex-monsters-Increase-Prowess-values?p=643001#post643001

While I don't think thats the worst idea in the world, it definitely requires more fine tuning.

The way GoV works is you get one buff sometimes so if you go in lacking buffs, it could take you a significant amount of time to acquire sufficient buffs.

Also, that just kinda boosts bots. A lot. As they will get maxed and stay maxed.

So, while the base idea is ok. (add GoV and give 10k bonus points plus still leaving all the normal GoV bonuses) it's not a great idea to try to make up fora support job that way.

I don't know how you reconcile the disparity but that doesn't feel like a winner. Enhance Signet/Sanction/Sigil buffs more like ionis. magic haste +45% STP + 30 DA + 10% (*)But only work with no rolls/songs. That keeps everyone (roughly) even, removes cor and bard and requires you to re-up status by leaving. (make the staves not apply the buffs)

You guys are all saying pretty agreeable things but I'm not sure what sort of point you're trying to make.

That you don't need a perfect pt to get decent amount of EPs?
That an averagely good pt is enough?
That solo exp is despicably low and annoying?

I mean well, duh? Don't really have to go that far to prove any of these points, do we?
The point still stands that it's eccedingly hard to find or assemble a pt. Impossible? No, but hard? Yes.
And frustrating. To the point once you've unsuccessfully tried a few times, you lose the will to try again.

You folks don't have these issues? I'm sincerely happy for you but at the same time we can't deny this problem exist.
I'm not sure what the cause is.
Too many RMTs shouting for CP/ML and keeping 90% of the good camps busy?
Not the only cause but I'm sure it plays a role. For instance before I went on a summer break in june the amount of yells for those activities wasn't even remotely comparable to the amount of yells I found when I came back after summer. In just a few months the situation changed a lot, at least on Asura.

Are there other possible causes? ML not offering interesting stuff enough to compensate for the amount of grind required, and a lot of people simply don't bother with it?
I made this hypothesys myself but I'm not sure if it's actually true.


Any other reason? I don't know, but either way this problem is not gonna solve itself with us stating the obvious things I mentioned above.
Granted that, of course, one could argue it doesn't necessarily have to be us to find a "solution" for this. I'm not even sure we could honestly.

The way it works now. They can make an improved version for Apex-level zones. Just make higher level Training Regimes give higher chance of Prowess bonus.


That doesn't matter. They're already maxed and staying at max. It's not enhancing them in any way they haven't buffed themselves, and SE hasn't properly implemented something without bots ever abusing it, so that's not a valid reason to start being concerned about bots abusing it. Also, get rid of the bot problem?

It's not supposed to replace real players in an optimal setup, but at least it bridges the gap a little.

Doing the exact opposite of the GoV boosts and instead implementing a rested bonus would probably be better.

i don't like the idea of choosing between staying/logging off for multiple days or weeks inside a zone to keep the prows active or leaving the zone to not lose out on my daily gil sources. it would also just flip the coin on the other side and anyone who hasn't finished master leveling their support jobs will be screwed for the future.