How I Became A Christian.

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How i became a Christian.
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-02 00:37:07
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Sylph.Lorax said: »
Is anyone else trying to figure out why he made an account here JUST to post that? All 7 of his posts are in this thread.
No it's probably a troll... I'm only entertaining it because I'm drunk and bored and not ready to go to sleep.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-02-02 00:37:24
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
I've always preferred to say it like this:

I don't dispute a man named Jesus roughly the same age and living in the time the Bible says he did, actually existed.. But I do dispute any claim the Bible accredits to him.

No primary sources, no sources even written by him, No witnesses happened to write about him. Nothing of the sort.
I'm not disputing that much <_< Just saying a Jesus (not "The Jesus") of the age and era didn't exist seems like a ridiculous statement to make to me.. It's the same level of ridiculousness to me to act as if the one from the bible did exist and actually did everything it says he did..

Probably much more likely that several doomsday preachers got conglomerated into one story.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 00:38:17
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Shiva.Xellith said: »
Stop cherry picking. You talk like the bible is an amazing moral guide - you obviously overlooked all the rape and such. God is good - god commanded rape - therefore rape is good? Religious logic at its best?

What? You can't pick out the truly morally praiseworthy parts of scripture follow those and discard the ones you can recognize as evil?

Human history is full of horrific things humans did. Rape, murder, war, slavery, torture, inequality. Are we incapable of looking at the past? Can we realize that while our ancestors created great things, they also perpetrated innumerable acts of violence? Can we not learn from that, realize we're better today than we were 1,000, 100, 50, 20, 10 years ago?

I think you're being unfair in saying someone has to treat all parts of an obviously divided work as equal. And I think you're giving too little credit to the progress of society.
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 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 00:39:58
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Shiva.Xellith said: »
Stop cherry picking. You talk like the bible is an amazing moral guide - you obviously overlooked all the rape and such. God is good - god commanded rape - therefore rape is good? Religious logic at its best?

What? You can't pick out the truly morally praiseworthy parts of scripture follow those and discard the ones you can recognize as evil?

Human history is full of horrific things humans did. Rape, murder, war, slavery, torture, inequality. Are we incapable of looking at the past? Can we realize that while our ancestors created great things, they also perpetrated innumerable acts of violence? Can we not learn from that, realize we're better today than we were 1,000, 100, 50, 20, 10 years ago?

I think you're being unfair in saying someone has to treat all parts of an obviously divided work as equal.

Yes we can..and we can do it without religion >_>
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-02 00:40:04
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Shiva.Xellith said: »
Stop cherry picking. You talk like the bible is an amazing moral guide - you obviously overlooked all the rape and such. God is good - god commanded rape - therefore rape is good? Religious logic at its best?

What? You can't pick out the truly morally praiseworthy parts of scripture follow those and discard the ones you can recognize as evil?

Human history is full of horrific things humans did. Rape, murder, war, slavery, torture, inequality. Are we incapable of looking at the past? Can we realize that while our ancestors created great things, they also perpetrated innumerable acts of violence? Can we not learn from that, realize we're better today than we were 1,000, 100, 50, 20, 10 years ago?

I think you're being unfair in saying someone has to treat all parts of an obviously divided work as equal.
When you find out someone raped a bunch of kids do you just look passed it?
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2012-02-02 00:40:24
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Powerful testimony. Will send prayers for your mother and may God continue to bless you.
 Leviathan.Mnkk
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By Leviathan.Mnkk 2012-02-02 00:42:40
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Ty Mahayaya
 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 00:43:46
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I think he's being sarcastic :<


God I need to get out of this thread before I get temp banned.
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 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-02 00:47:34
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Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
I think he's being sarcastic :<


God I need to get out of this thread before I get temp banned.
If he is, then I'm Sorry :< I'm notoriously horrible at reading sarcasm..
 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 00:48:43
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I mean mahayahan or w/e.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 00:49:25
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Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Yes we can..and we can do it without religion >_>
you're absolutely right, you don't need religion to recognize good things from bad things. If you can take the belief in a higher power and reconcile it with the good things in the world, I don't see a problem with that. and i'm not saying all religions are free from ugly doctrines. there are some ugly teachings out there.

Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
When you find out someone raped a bunch of kids do you just look passed it?
What? how'd you get that from what I said? I said we can recognize both the good things we've done in history, and the bad things we've done in history. And that's also a crucial part of the process, we can now differentiate what we did in the past.

Rape is rape. Rape is evil. Slavery is evil, and we can recognize slavery as evil when it happens now, and we can recognize slavery as evil when it happened in the past.

Likewise, we can recognize the evil things in scripture, and the good things in scripture.
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 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 00:52:57
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Everyone, DON"T KILL ANY ONE!

Thanks Mr. Bible, couldn't have done it without you!

/mindbaffled
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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 00:56:30
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Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Everyone, DON"T KILL ANY ONE!

Thanks Mr. Bible, couldn't have done it without you!

/mindbaffled
And yet for thousands of years murder has happened, both in the name of religion, and without religion.

I'm not advocating blind faith. I'm advocating tolerance for all people.
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-02 00:57:37
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Yes we can..and we can do it without religion >_>
you're absolutely right, you don't need religion to recognize good things from bad things. If you can take the belief in a higher power and reconcile it with the good things in the world, I don't see a problem with that. and i'm not saying all religions are free from ugly doctrines. there are some ugly teachings out there.

Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
When you find out someone raped a bunch of kids do you just look passed it?
What? how'd you get that from what I said? I said we can recognize both the good things we've done in history, and the bad things we've done in history. And that's also a crucial part of the process, we can now differentiate what we did in the past.

Rape is rape. Rape is evil. Slavery is evil, and we can recognize slavery as evil when it happens now, and we can recognize slavery as evil when it happened in the past.

Likewise, we can recognize the evil things in scripture, and the good things in scripture.
It was a question, it goes deeper than one line.

So here we go.. A rapist today (which is regarded pretty much universally as the worst type of person, there's even people who don't bat an eye at a convicted cold blooded murderer but think rapists deserve to die) is instantly labeled by that one act. Doesn't matter what they did before or after, no matter how much good they did before or after, they're still a rapist. I took your post to say "Christianity/religion has done good and bad things, that the bad can be looked past or accepted and moved on from" in which, I was questioning if you'd do the same for a rapist.
 Asura.Vrytreya
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By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-02-02 00:57:47
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Yes we can..and we can do it without religion >_>
you're absolutely right, you don't need religion to recognize good things from bad things. If you can take the belief in a higher power and reconcile it with the good things in the world, I don't see a problem with that.
Neither do I, but do many subscribers stop at that point? From my experience, they don't.

Quote:
and i'm not saying all religions are free from ugly doctrines. there are some ugly teachings out there.
Does that implicitly say "it's not mine btw" ?
 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 00:58:11
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gl with that
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-02 01:05:36
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Haven't had a need for this in a while:

 Asura.Kaisuko
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By Asura.Kaisuko 2012-02-02 01:07:41
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I don't like to label myself as anything, but to make it clear, I don't believe in God.

But I don't see what's so wrong about people using religion to help themselves get through tough times, or to simply "show them the right path".

I don't know if this guy is trolling, felt like telling some random people, or trying to force his religion on people; but what are some of you trying to prove by coming in here and spouting off that your atheist and talking about how the bible says rape is okay?

The OP is doing nothing wrong by doing this so-called "cherry picking" from the bible. He's obviously using it to help him through life. Let him do it. If you don't wanna hear what he has to say(or any religious person), then just ignore 'em.
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 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 01:08:43
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Yes we can..and we can do it without religion >_>
you're absolutely right, you don't need religion to recognize good things from bad things. If you can take the belief in a higher power and reconcile it with the good things in the world, I don't see a problem with that. and i'm not saying all religions are free from ugly doctrines. there are some ugly teachings out there.

Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
When you find out someone raped a bunch of kids do you just look passed it?
What? how'd you get that from what I said? I said we can recognize both the good things we've done in history, and the bad things we've done in history. And that's also a crucial part of the process, we can now differentiate what we did in the past.

Rape is rape. Rape is evil. Slavery is evil, and we can recognize slavery as evil when it happens now, and we can recognize slavery as evil when it happened in the past.

Likewise, we can recognize the evil things in scripture, and the good things in scripture.
It was a question, it goes deeper than one line.

So here we go.. A rapist today (which is regarded pretty much universally as the worst type of person, there's even people who don't bat an eye at a convicted cold blooded murderer but think rapists deserve to die) is instantly labeled by that one act. Doesn't matter what they did before or after, no matter how much good they did before or after, they're still a rapist. I took your post to say "Christianity/religion has done good and bad things, that the bad can be looked past or accepted and moved on from" in which, I was questioning if you'd do the same for a rapist.

Absolutely not; I was paralleling human history (certainly not entirely secular, but what can you do), against a sort of timeline in religious history.

You can't divorce past action from current state. What you have done in the past certainly does define who you are at all moments, but only in part. I'm not saying we can forget what the rapist or religion or humans as a race have done. But we are smart enough to recognize there are good and bad deeds, good and bad history. We can choose to follow the good parts, and not continue the bad ones.

Rapist is a little sticky of an analogy, because in some ways one rapist has done something that one rapist cannot undo, that rape is in its entirety on that rapist.

However, society, state, religion, these are not individuals. These are groups with doctrines and ideals that evolve over time. Religion has done some truly horrific things, and some truly great things. Some of the truly horrific things are in the past, and better people are leading today. Not every religious person is responsible for everything that religion cumulatively did wrong.
 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 01:09:30
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Well, if he's not doing anything wrong stating his belief, whats wrong with us stating our belief? God knows religious folk get in atheists way, so we can do the same to them. In effect, if he's doing nothing wrong, then we're doing nothing wrong as well.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-02 01:10:48
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Asura.Kaisuko said: »
If you don't wanna hear what he has to say(or any religious person), then just ignore 'em.

Putting the word "Christian" in the title of a thread is just asking for it (regardless of the content). It's like 199% guaranteed to degenerate into a ***throwing contest.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 01:11:13
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Asura.Vrytreya said: »
Quote:
and i'm not saying all religions are free from ugly doctrines. there are some ugly teachings out there.
Does that implicitly say "it's not mine btw" ?

there are some ugly, disgusting, unjust laws in the united states.

Does the fact that I believe there is a right to gay marriage make me unamerican even when its legally not a universal right?
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-02 01:11:17
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Who is trying to prove to anything? He posted in a public forum.. Which means we're all free to express our opinions and thoughts. Just because we don't agree with his view doesn't mean we're trying to prove anything.. Actually, consult some of the other religion threads.. This is pretty damned mild..

@Eugene, thanks for the answer. Had you of tried to go on how that act defines them, I would have a response, but there really is nothing to respond to with your response. It's what I was hoping for, actually. Level-headed people make me happy.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 01:15:12
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Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Well, if he's not doing anything wrong stating his belief, whats wrong with us stating our belief? God knows religious folk get in atheists way, so we can do the same to them. In effect, if he's doing nothing wrong, then we're doing nothing wrong as well.
I don't have a problem at all with you saying that you don't believe in a god.

What I do have a problem is with people (not pointing out anyone in particular) saying that you're less of a person because you're religious, or you're atheist, or you're gay, or you're a woman, or you're black, or any other way we can treat another as if they're less of a person than anyone else.
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 Leviathan.Mnkk
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By Leviathan.Mnkk 2012-02-02 01:18:06
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Even the liar says at least i dont steal.. the thief says well at least i dont kill... the killer says well at least i dont rape women... the rapist says well at least i dont rape children.. Camon is that how you convinced your self that your not living foul? Comparing your self to people you think are worse then you? Compare your self to Christ and you'll learn the truth.
 Asura.Kaisuko
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By Asura.Kaisuko 2012-02-02 01:19:18
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Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Well, if he's not doing anything wrong stating his belief, whats wrong with us stating our belief? God knows religious folk get in atheists way, so we can do the same to them. In effect, if he's doing nothing wrong, then we're doing nothing wrong as well.
"If they can do it, so can I."
Sounds like an excuse I used when I was 7.

Also, if you're gunna be non-religious, don't label yourself as something else.. Unless of course you're doing it cause you wanna be hip and cool with all the other rebels of religion.
 Leviathan.Mnkk
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By Leviathan.Mnkk 2012-02-02 01:21:11
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Not making it to heaven is falling short. Just like 2 people swiming to the shore, If one person gets within 500 yards and drowns(A horrible rapist.) And another gets 50 yards from shore but still drowns in shallow water(The decently good person) You both have the same ending. Good better or worse everyone needs Jesus.
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By Fairy.Spence 2012-02-02 01:22:00
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Well, if he's not doing anything wrong stating his belief, whats wrong with us stating our belief? God knows religious folk get in atheists way, so we can do the same to them. In effect, if he's doing nothing wrong, then we're doing nothing wrong as well.
I don't have a problem at all with you saying that you don't believe in a god.

What I do have a problem is with people (not pointing out anyone in particular) saying that you're less of a person because you're religious, or you're gay, or you're a woman, or you're black, or any other way we can treat another as if they're less of a person than anyone else.

I think you're less of a person because you're made out of sticks!
 Leviathan.Hohenheim
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By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 01:23:13
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Asura.Kaisuko said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Well, if he's not doing anything wrong stating his belief, whats wrong with us stating our belief? God knows religious folk get in atheists way, so we can do the same to them. In effect, if he's doing nothing wrong, then we're doing nothing wrong as well.
"If they can do it, so can I."
Sounds like an excuse I used when I was 7.

Also, if you're gunna be non-religious, don't label yourself as something else.. Unless of course you're doing it cause you wanna be hip and cool with all the other rebels of religion.

right

>_>
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-02-02 01:27:06
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Fairy.Spence said: »
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Well, if he's not doing anything wrong stating his belief, whats wrong with us stating our belief? God knows religious folk get in atheists way, so we can do the same to them. In effect, if he's doing nothing wrong, then we're doing nothing wrong as well.
I don't have a problem at all with you saying that you don't believe in a god.

What I do have a problem is with people (not pointing out anyone in particular) saying that you're less of a person because you're religious, or you're gay, or you're a woman, or you're black, or any other way we can treat another as if they're less of a person than anyone else.

I think you're less of a person because you're made out of sticks!
And all I eat is cereal so I'm sure I'm missing out on essential nutrients and vitamins that make me whole :(
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