Christians: We Arent Trying To Condemn Anyone

It's hard to direct anger or dissatisfaction of the numerous injustices in the world that have primary or even secondary involvement in religion that happens worldwide and on a regular basis.

Also it's difficult to put that anger in perspective from the other side of the table and not take it as one would a personal attack on one's faith or beliefs. There is a lot to be angry about when it comes to religion in general and the events that circumvent from it's teachings and dogma. Of course such things are relative and are often based on an individual or group of individuals that misinterpret or willingly or even unwillingly corrupt various passages and texts to usher political gain and rousal of others to support their own selfish cause.

All I can say is a lot of horrible things happen in the name of religion, and there really is too much diversity and variables to point the finger at any particular person or group, or even the religion itself; because religion is a freedom of sorts that fundamentally should be a just basis for an individual's lifestyle...assuming it doesn't infringe on the rights and liberties of others.

I'm sure all of us have seen how well that turned out.
So what we end up with is a big intense misdirected stream of hatred for one another that becomes counter productive to what we are actually trying to say or believe in.

As an atheist of sorts, I think it's a duty to sort out the mess and make a sound and reasonable understanding of our "anger" before it lashes out to harm a group or individual, lest it becomes misdirected and circumvents in what has been essentially a war of minds for centuries.


WOOT FIRST PAGE!

THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

How about I don't believe in all the cosmic chances that would have to take place for us to exist and have a planet capable of supporting us, almost indefinitely with moderation and without the proposed explosion of our son in 6 billion years?

How about the fact that science itself dictates to me that from nothing can come nothing, so there has to be some sort of outside force or divine being that triggered this universe? I call Him God.

The fact that I cannot truly rationalize why life would even start for it to be nothing but a trip to death?

My dad has pancreatic cancer, that's pretty much a game over. I was so mad at God and believed he didn't exist until a fellow Christian pointed out that blaming all the bad on God was letting the devil off easy. I joined in with all the people praying for him, and while nothing is a guarantee, knock on wood, he was one of the very few rare people to catch the cancer in stage 1 and to respond to the treatments so well. You will tell me coincidence, I don't believe that much in coincidence, a lot of people prayed for him, and he stayed devoted to God the whole time.

The Bible says God will provide for his people when they need it if you never lose faith in him. There have been many times in my life where I didn't think I was going to make the bills or be able to pay for food, and each and every time I asked God to look out for me and my loved ones and help me find the path, and each and every time something happened that made getting through that week possible.

The problem with the evidence you want and the evidence people who believe have, is they follow two different criteria.

How is that biased, you took everything completely out of context and zeroed in on the one part that makes it sound evil.

I love how many times this has been quoted despite being a false analogy, there are scientists who claim to believe in string theory without complete evidence. There are scientists who claim dark energy exists, with the only evidence of scientific models showing that something isn't accounting for why the universe is expanding at an increasing rate.

Dark energy is simply a term used to state that science doesn't understand why the universe works the way it does. However, they way its put forth makes it sound to the casual listener that it is some definitive force.

There are plenty of unknowns that scientists believe in, and will try and argue as fitting into scientific theory.

I think you're looking at that from the wrong side of the argument. Did you ever notice that puddles often form in holes in the road?

Fine, I shouldn't have used string theory, but the point still stands.

Hold the phone buddy.
Science doesn't really dictate anything.
Science revolves around theories that begin with a reasonable hypothesis that undergoes various observations and tests before it can be considered remotely plausible, which is further researched and tested to build a foundation of knowledge to the point where one can consider it a fact of life.

The difference here is religion is more or less written in stone and set forth as an absolution despite being so vague and containing countless perspectives of interpretation and versions existing from one point of view to another.

This sort of comment is basically saying "if you aren't looking at it from my side, you are wrong."

I routinely look at things from all side. Whether you choose to believe it or not, I am very educated person, I have a tested high IQ, I understand science, math, I hold a couple of degrees and certifications. I have decided that neither religion nor science can answer the how or why. I have decided science can answer the how and religion can answer the why. If I am foolish for believing in God, than so are many of your precious scientists.

Also:

How about the fact that science itself dictates to me that from nothing can come nothing, so there has to be some sort of outside force or divine being that triggered this universe? I call Him God.

Then what made God?

Maybe the default state is 'exists' rather than 'not exists' /shrug. We're still working on those answers. We've only been at Science with the resources it needs for a few decades, when you think about it.

My dad has pancreatic cancer, that's pretty much a game over. I was so mad at God and believed he didn't exist until a fellow Christian pointed out that blaming all the bad on God was letting the devil off easy. I joined in with all the people praying for him, and while nothing is a guarantee, knock on wood, he was one of the very few rare people to catch the cancer in stage 1 and to respond to the treatments so well. You will tell me coincidence, I don't believe that much in coincidence, a lot of people prayed for him, and he stayed devoted to God the whole time.

The Bible says God will provide for his people when they need it if you never lose faith in him. There have been many times in my life where I didn't think I was going to make the bills or be able to pay for food, and each and every time I asked God to look out for me and my loved ones and help me find the path, and each and every time something happened that made getting through that week possible.

And this part just pisses me off. You worked hard for your food, I assume. Or people maybe helped you, out of the goodness of their hearts. Those doctors and surgeons trained for years to make sue that when people like your father walk in that they have a shot at saving him from the mess the human body is.

But God saved him. I find it strange when people attribute all the beautiful things in life to God, but forget about the worm eating through the eyeball of a small child; that can't be God, no.

Sigh.

Only if you want others to believe in it as well. Many of the people I know don't go around shoving their beliefs down peoples throats as you seem to think all theists do. They have their own personal faith that he does exist even though they openly admit they have no proof.

It's like saying, prove to me that you will catch me if I fall back with my eyes closed. I can't prove that you will actually catch me but based on my experience with you and my own personal thoughts I can decide to believe that you will or won't.

I think the key here is asserting that whatever it is that is unknown is presently tangible and observable from human perspective and tools that it retains various qualities suitable for a name of vague definition. It can be rather frustrating to see something, know of its existence, observe its capacity and effects yet ultimately fall short of being able to explain in detail the functions or makeup of what it is.

What I will give you is that science does a much better job at dismissing incorrect beliefs when enough evidence is present to discredit a theory.

WEll, I have to admit, those are some questions worth thinking about for sure, I also find myself thinking deeply about the origins of life and it's purpose, but unlike religion, I believe that there was something but I choose to not go any further than that in terms of what that something was because we do not know. Unfortunately though this is still not evidence of a God, as there are infinite possibilities.

I'm sorry to hear about health problem within a family, but again there are just as many people who are not religious who are just lucky. Look at Lance Armstrong for a serious example of being on a deathbed.

Again, praying then having opportunities present themselves is like you say, coincidence, not evidence. It's not enough. For you it is, but for me, occurences like this are chance. Like pulling up to a traffic light and it turning green just as I get there. I don't thank God, I thank my lucky stars.

No, you just want to jump at me from this one. I was unable to wrap my head around our existence for 5 years of my life when I looked at it that way, until I realized something:

The hole was not made for the puddle: the water drops drift into the hole and get stuck because the hole in the road is an ideal condition for the puddle to be.

By that I mean to say, with the vast expanses of the universe, it was bound to happen sooner or later. We exist because, like the puddle, it worked out to be a good environment to exist. We are not the result; we're just a product.

How about you look at the mortality rate of pancreatic cancer. Those doctors didn't invent chemotherapy. If his good fortune was 100% based on the doctors and treatment and science behind it, then why do people still die from it?

And as far as your comment about the worm, well if you believe in God, then you believe in the devil and if you blame everything on God, then you let the devil off pretty easy.

Because cancer is a very ferocious problem that we still don't fully know how to approach? Those doctors still put in years of hard *** work for you to just discredit them that way.

And -__________________- at the devil and god thing.

What created the big bang? Neither discipline is currently prepared to answer this question.

You guys reminded me, I forgot to install folding@home.
BRB

Sounds a lot like superstition to me.. Everything good that happens is from God, and everything bad that happens is from Satan.

Why can't good and bad things just happen.. Why does there have to be something pulling the strings and making it happen?

Doesn't mean God did it. Not sure what you're getting at, though, besides the turtles-all-the-way-down bit.

We're still working on it. What's your point? I don't understand.

You are never going to get an honest answer from a sane Christian that will meet the burden you have set. God doesn't talk to man anymore, for a long story that would devolve into blaming the Jews, so we won't go too in depth with it. So not one sane person, who is Christian and actually bothered to read the scriptures is going to tell you he saw God, or that God told him to do something, or that Jesus appeared to him.

And let's say that God did still talk to man, let's say someone was really talked to by God. This would be 100% proof of his existence, especially to the people it happened to, but everyone else would just call them crazy. So there is the problem with the whole request for evidence, if any real evidence we could use exists, and I don't know if there is or not, you would dismiss it, so the atheistic side has made it impossible for the Christian side to win and that is why most of us have our faith for ourselves and don't push it off on people not interested.

Look, I don't mean any offense, but this is a dumb comment. It's just like comments made by religious people that they just believe and you find foolish. It's a comment that only one side will embrace and no answer from the other side will satisfy your wonderment.

For those who believe in God, it makes 100% sense to them if they know the scriptures. For those who don't it makes no sense. So why ask the question?

Haha, there's room for an awesome joke in there.

But coming from the person that doesn't think this could possibly have all happened by chance, doesn't that just sound a little too convenient? :|

In a way, I feel sorry for people that only go to Holy Books for the answer. There's a handful of them. It seems they miss out on the joy of a library full of books, and all they have to offer.

I guess I had enough foresight to travel in time and alter the Bible to state that God no longer talks to man for this very day.

If I've learned anything about religion, it's that it appears to be the most convenient route in justifying and explaining the unknowns in life along with the cause and effect that would be otherwise unexplained.
Not everything in life requires an answer, nor does it require some sort of tangible, spiritual embodiment that epitomizes good or evil therein.

Ummm...Slip is agnostic too. Just throwing that out there.

That's an opinion and not a fact.

What I find ironic about that statement, is if not everything in life requires an answer, than why do both sides of the fence go looking for them.

You brought God to the source, the efficient cause. I just brought the universe there. I'm not discrediting science, I'm just saying science is no better position to answer that one. You claim you need evidence to argue for a God, I'm saying I think there are better arguments against God than arguments that science can't answer either.

on a side note.

There's a good chance we won't find out the answers to a lot of questions. A few billion years from now any civilization that might exist won't be able to inductively reason that the universe is expanding, nor come up with the big bang theory. That's because the universe is expanding at faster than the speed of light, and at some point the universe will expand further than the spectrum of information we have. We live at a fortunate time in the universe.