[dev1065] Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapon Upgrades

Personally, I don't think that sounds too terrible, if it is true, the issue I see is the human factor.
My opinion is probably invalid though because I have not had the chance to do any of the battles that the drops come from.

The core of the problem is still the same and forcing the game to resort back to large LS's forcing members to do things for leaders.

And really, as its been stated several times, its really bogus because of dynamis being limited. Most of the leg work on PW can be done on your own/low man. Empy can really be done easily since VW is current content that people are actively doing.

ADL is limited to once a day for 2 hours, and on top of that, people get no benefit of helping (besides if they have a relic and relaying in the fact that the people you help will actually help you back) and is also preventing them from working on their own relic or making good money from the event.

Not true, ADL has other drops on him that people may seek for their none main jobs, or even situation pieces that can be of use in other battles.

Edit: Also, the idea of "putting forth effort for someone else in hopes that the effort would be returned equally" has always been part of the game, sometimes it can screw you, while others it pays off. Admittedly if you end up on the screwed end of the spectrum that would really suck...

His other drops are mostly crap and not worth it for most of the people. Even then, you are offering 1 item to the 17 other people. I suppose items along the way as well but I don't really think any of them are worth it, esp at the cost of giving up farming currency to sell/build a relic.

oh yeah, wonderful loot: a sagasinger-2 (which doesnt glow so -20 instead), a sagasinger (which doesnt drop, and is garbage), a shadow mantle -20 (instead of annuling any damage 10% of the time, it'll annul severe damage 10% of the time...oh, and you get an inferior melee backpiece during dark weather to whats available), a shadow ring -20 (see shadow mantle, and this one doesnt even cause you to resist death occasionally...but hey this is a good ring for casting comet!)


really, what utility is there for sagasinger? Stealing enhancement effects? "GUYZ DONT DISPEL BERSERK I WANNA STEAL IT......soon...when...this.....sword...procs...HAAAAAAA I STOLE IT"
dumbPLD's Berserk effect wears off. (right away)

Well hey, at least you get to kill DL on the way to ADL so you get a chance at those nice shadow items!

I see your points, with the push for the ability to low man things so effectively, it becomes extremely difficult to re-introduce the "large group requirements" after so many people have developed low-lam methods for almost everything.

I think to further that, the game has just matured passed that point now. Not as many players (skilled players to be debated) and not as many really willing to go back to that style. (player base grew up and arent as willing to dedicate all their free time to a large group, some of which you prob dont really care about and don't really enjoying spending time with, anyone in a big LS had people like that im sure)

All sounds reasonable although I hope they add Riftdross/cinder from other mobs....getting 60 of those could be tedious seeing that they only drop by 1 of 2 things and one of them is rather difficult to take down. Not to mention VW's lol drop rate but we'll see...


All I have to say is.....

for now anyway.....

Riftdross/cinder seems to be at or a little above Pouch drop rates in my experience. Also, there are two of them they can drop. It is essentially another 60 pouches of Heavy Metal in terms of farming it (60*9 = 540).

Fortunately there is little competition for it because so few people got past the initial Heavy Metal Plate stage.

^ this, you can probably find 60 riftdross/cinder in upper jeuno right now.

This. You couldn't even try for PR this bad. Good Lord.

My popcorn are turning more and more bitter as the case evolves.

This is why you shouldnt own so many endgame weapons lol, those of you with 3+, will never get them all to 99 especially if you own more then one empyrean.

Why not? The game has been around so long people need other goals than "Get x job to 99, get Y jobs emyrean armor"

Edit:

Also, the deletion of the post is amazing to me. "Hey guys, we are going to make this forum where we can discuss with you anything about the game!" *Oh, they are complaining and not kissing our feet, DELETE!!!!!!

I don't even know why they made the forums if all they are going to do is censor it to hell and back so it looks like everyone is happy.

Not everyone is a one-trick pony.

Well to each his own, you wanna own every weapon in the game im not stopping you, id rather explore one of each type endgame weapon then do a rinse and repeat of the same category weapon, relic/mythic/empyrean 99 done, satisfaction.

They really just need to adjust ADL's drops. PW is fine as is, especially after they multiply zeni tenfold.

They need to adjust ADL as a whole, it's fine being a challenge to kill, but splitting himself multiple times and using tera slash equaling Widespread Death is ***.

God, am I glad these people exist. A long standing market for riftdross ensures that the concept of Voidwatch won't die anytime soon. Sadly, I work 50+ hours a week. On top of that I volunteer at my church and I am on a bowling league and play paintball to keep my old *** in shape. While I would love to have spammed VW 100 times a day and gotten all the items in the first week, that's not realistic for me. Despite everyone throwing a fit at the moment, the long run ramifications of this benefit some of us in this small manner (i'm not saying it's great, I'm just saying there's at least some positive to the massive negative).

You are, in theory at least, completely right and I hope it keeps Voidwatch going for some time to come. This is exactly the issue I have with ADL, though. His drops and "benefits" are of no use to the people you would need to help you.

They took the Empy model and applied it to relics. But they want relics to be done in Dynamis. But they didn’t make a system that benefits anybody but the one person getting the drop, versus VW where there will – likely – always be people who need something or can benefit in some way.

If anyone helps others with a relic and doesn't get anything back in return, they have no-one to blame but themselves. There is nothing stopping you or anyone else from selling your services, or buying services from other people to aid/help those get their relics finished.

This is an MMO, the notion that you need to rely on others to get stuff done shouldn't be surprising. It is really quite shocking that there is such a large % of the player base that insists the best weapons in the game should be capable of being solo-ed.

To be honest, I would probably have added drops to all of the Arch bosses:

(The names are irrelevant, if iin any case it's not immediately obvious there's some historical lore reason for that item connected to the NM's source)

• Arch Goblin Golem Fragment (Jeuno)

• Arch Ghu'Da Effigy Fragment(Bastok)

• Arch Tzee Zicu Idol Fragment (Windurst)

• Arch Overlord Tombstone Fragment (San d'Oria)

• Kvaraenah (Arch Angra Mainyu)

• Umbral Marrow (Arch Dynamis Lord)

• Sack of Skulls (Lost Antaeus)

• Cirrate Arm (Lost Cirrate Christelle)

• False Prophecy (Lost Apocalytpic Beast)

• Dreamcatcher (_____ Diabolos)

The relic 99 trials would be split into multiple trials (since I don't think ToM supports multiple item types for one trial):

Trial 1.) One city dynamis arch drop (varies by weapon)
Trial 2.) One outside dreamlands arch drop (varies by weapon)
Trial 3.) One Arch Angra Mainyu drop
Trial 4.) One Arch Dynamis Lord drop
Trial 5.) One ______ Diabolos drop

So for example, a trial might look like this:

Amanomurakumo

Trial 1: Arch Ghu'Da Effigy Fragment x1
Trial 2: Cirrate Arm x1
Trial 3: Kvaraenah x1
Trial 4: Umbral Marrow x1
Trial 5: Dreamcatcher x1

This form of the trial would accomplish a few things:

1.) The content is more varied, so people will be less bored since they don't have to do the same thing over and over again constantly.
2.) There are a lot more drops from these NMs, a lot of which are more desirable than ADL drops, and we might actually see some of these drops (which we don't really now), so there's more reward for helping.

Anyway, was just a thought on how I would have designed the trials.

I think the game moved past that point not because players "grew up" but rather the game started to reward lowmanning to a degree never seen before in FFXI. People want ***as fast as they can get it, so they splintered off into little cliques (even within large LS's) because with atma and a WHM mule you could "lowman ALL the things." For these people, "growing up" wasn't really the driving force, in fact one could argue just the opposite.

While it's absolutely true the playerbase may devote less time each day to play FFXI these days due to RL obligations/jobs/spouses/etc., some people still enjoy devoting their time to large group activities in whatever time they ARE online. It's activity-based, not maturity-based. As long as SE puts large group activities back in the game that decently compensate people, and that you can finish in 30 mins or one-to-two-hour chunks, people will band together and do them and still be able to have a balanced RL. Also, your comment re: LS's forcing people to do things for leaders is a non-starter. What large LS's are left in the game operate by fair DKP standards. That's why they still exist....

Stop using the "this is an MMO" excuse. The trial is just simply poorly constructed and doesn't even encourage the relic population to team up to accomplish a common goal. This trial goes right back to the days of old Dynamis universally understood today as largely composed of shells that geared few on the backs of many.

People won't team up with relics for ADL trials because there is nothing in it. Instead of SE making something simple, encouraging to all players and relatively simple to organize they take us back to 2006 where wiping your *** required complicated organizational skills and using a few dozen people or so.

I don't see why someone with a relic should have to offer every member of the alliance 2M to enter Dynamis-Xarc because SE is too damn lazy or incompetent to make their magian trial attractive to others. Everything shouldn't be solved with throwing fistfuls of money at it and SE should you know.. develop content in line with the times instead of vomiting out whatever seems annoying enough to keep people grinding forever.

This is actually why I think SE misled the majority of the playerbase, because as it stands right now ADL can only be done in large LS's where you can easily get the 18 to do the fight. This fight will not be done in PUG's where each person needs an immediate "reward" to help you.

The reason you can get 18 in a large LS is that not everyone is working on their own relic or need money, so they would help the relicholders on the fight to get DKP to spend on other LS events, DL/ADL drops, or to get help on OTHER Arch bosses they DO want because any good LS will probably rotate Arch Boss events. So if you need 18, assume the relicholders make up 5-10 people, then you get the people who don't farm Dyna, sackholders who won't lock themselves out of events, BRD/SMN mules, etc. In my own LS, we have about 40 active members, and only 20-25% of those farm Dynamis hardcore. Some people just log in for LS events and don't give a ***whether the LS does Dynamis because their time to play is so limited that day they wouldn't have time to do a 2-hour Dyna farming session IN ADDITION to LS events.

And yes, I realize some people consider DL/ADL drops junk, and I agree they are situational. But many people would lot on them regardless, especially people who like their glowy trophies. I highly doubt any PLD would refrain from lotting a Sagasinger if it was in the treasure pool, considering its rarity and "glowy trinket status."

Problem Mahoro is the Sagasinger seems to have an absolutely terrible droprate.

It's not like you've got a fair chance getting one from ADL because the groups that have killed him multiple times haven't even logged in any Sagasinger drops.

Would not be surprised if it was a terrible Dring-esque rate.

I do agree that is a problem, but people spam Voidwatch these days hundreds of times for glowy weapons. I do recognize though that VWNM is more "accessible" and there is less upfront investment to spamming Qilin than doing ADL. Just saying low drop rates haven't stopped people in the past from doing stuff. I really DO wish Sagasinger dropped more, because most of our PLD's want one, if for any other reason the glowy trophy thingy ><

OMG dude, it's FIVE items, for the best weapons in the game. Get over it. There are some things in this game that should require the players to use a full alliance of people.