Sam Gear Lvl 99

I was ready to rage because I usually read left to right so put best > worst > etc

Just to clarify you have worst > best right?

those are supposed to be arrows, not greater/lessthan symbols, unless im flat out pointing out something is better a la usukane shoe > aces.

Thanks ^^ looks solid then, just me misreading

A minimal increase as compared to which other body?

Unkai+2 body should always be worn when Hasso or Seigan is up.

You can deduce it from my sentence there.

Or I can opt to give 3% DA Sphere to other 2-3 relevant melee DD in party.

Troll attempt?

DT body piece to help the other DDs....wtf kind of backwards thinking is that.

holy ***i thought he was talking about avant and then I read sphere.

these are the people who go 1/1 in vw

I'm sorry that some people can't make it to a TP piece because of whatever circumstance they have. I can.
I'm not sure what kind of stuff going in your head that you can call it backwards.

Priceless

This should be on the OF.

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm sitting there, waiting to swing 6 more times after my WS...I think about my team mates, the bros in my party...I smile to myself...knowing that their moderate to minuscule increase in double attack is making all the difference.

I also go SAM/WHM to keep everyone hasted.

Team player forreal.

dont forget about sam/cor so you can tacticians your party too.

while we're on the same topic of wonky gear, whats with the nins who TP in ocelomeh, or 5/5 af3+2?

its almost as if they dont know haste/dual wield > their silly set bonus (which tends to be the biggest excuse i get)

I think I am finally going to start playing sam again, and uh, I really don't care about "helping" the other "relevant" DD's in my party, other than weaponskilling to take their hate, thats the correct line of thinking for a DD, right? Right.

Then don't do it? I still can have 25% haste with Mekira Meikogai set, WSing every 5 secs apart sometimes no problem.
I think you guys take my "minimal increase" too far as "this is so inherently wrong and you shouldn't do this".

youre dropping efficiency for no reason at all. you dont even have a true 5hit build, you're 1 TP off and it just doesnt make any sense to wear meikogai.

You sound so certain. Show me what TP setup do you think I have.

I'm interested in seeing some more thought-out criticism here.

I'd like to apologize if it seems I made any mistakes judging by the numbers. I'm not familiar with the more advanced options of Montenten's spreadsheet, but I was bored so I went ahead and messed with it to see if the gain was higher than the loss.
What I did was make a copy of one item that's used in both TP and WS sets for MNK and WAR, one with 3% DA and one with its normal stats. In this case I used Potestas with and without 3% DA, and a Ravager's Orb with and without 3% DA.
This is assuming the party setup consists of WHM BRD COR SAM MNK WAR, and that you are keeping the body on full-time. (Sorry, it's somewhat messy)

SAM Loss:
MNK Gain:
WAR Gain:
SAM total loss in DPS: 29.629
MNK and WAR total gain in DPS: 22.698

If you swap out Mekira for Saotome Domaru +2 for WSs then the MNK and WAR will be gaining more than you're losing, however I'm not sure how much of an impact it would be to have those small windows of no sphere.
Again, I'm not familiar with a couple of the worksheets so apologies if it seems I made any mistakes. :(

There are cells in Motenten's spreadsheet that identify "Total Cycle Time" (TP+WS delay). On the SAM spreadsheet, you'd look at Setup.B39 and Setup.C39. Take that time, subtract 90 delay from it (I'm assuming the SAM is using Spellcast and has properly adjusted aftercastdelay for JAs, such that they'll only be in WS equip for 1.5 seconds), then modify the WAR and MNK's gain in DPS by the appropriate percentage.

EDIT: Has the AF2+2 body still not been nerfed? If it has, should probably choose a different WS body.

Please explain the interpretation of 1.86 round/WS
There's 14% chance you can WS again after 1 round and the other 86% is you need 2 rounds until you can get WS again? And if so, the interpretation of 2.00 round/WS means there's absolutely no chance at all that I can get 1 round after WS to WS again. I can, for certain, say that this case is untrue.

My normal hit in TP gear is 20.2 TP, 40.1 TP on Hassozanshin.
2-hit Shoha (20TP) + SaveTP(20) + normal hit(20.2) + 40.1(Hassozanshin) makes me set at 100TP.
This is WS->1 round -> WS. Of which, the number you got from Motenten spreadsheet gives no possibility of this occuring.

It's an average figure. He has some fairly extensive calculations in the spreadsheets geared towards generating accurate rounds/WS figures based on WS returns. I don't know what Llewelyn is working with gear or buffs-wise though.

This is the problem : If you're doing a relatively continuous-data, the concept of average comes out more easily. But not when you are working with a more discrete data. 2-hander calculation should be worked on discretely, since the case is more finite to what DWers/punchers have.

Was the Save TP adjustment today?

You'd be better off taking up any issues with Motenten, I won't claim to have a full grasp of the specifics. I would assume he's using the value appropriately though. If you want a glimpse at what he's doing, I'd suggest looking at the "Melee" page and the page for the appropriate weaponskill. I do believe he's using results based on individual WS returns to generate further data where pertinent though, if that's the direction of your criticism.

No.

Sigh..
If anyone can explain what and how exactly stuff works in Motenten spreadsheet, then please do so.
You can't argue with something that is mind-boggling but unable to explain how it can go there. I'm not going to waste my working hours inspecting all these details by myself just to counter argue 1 thing that, even if I'm right, it's not worth spending my time.

hardly a nin extroadinaire i thought 5/5 af3 +2 had some uses if you had your 80% delay reduction I never tried it myself because I dont have +2 hat

Uh, unwarranted response much? I did state that you'd be better off talking directly to Motenten in the very first sentence of my post.

You don't need to be condescending to every single poster here.

It's never optimal as an offensive set. It may be half decent at certain levels of delay reduction but there's going to be at least a couple of setups that are better.

It wasn't directed specifically to you, Nightfyre.

It's directed to anyone who do pose a mind-boggling complexity that ...is supposedly to be true, but taking only a single number called "average" which is used for telling "this is higher, use it" and "this is lower, don't use it". In reality, the question isn't a simply "which one is better?". The real question is : What is the likelihood I can score higher against the other setup and by how much, for this specific battle. Average works better if you are on a very long-stretched battle (old 75 merit PT, which I admit it is the only case where parse should be a valid measurement of performance).

Give me a single parse that spit exactly the same number done by spreadsheet. It's difficult, if not impossible.
People often underestimate all the noises happening in real battle. If losing 30 damage average shown by many-layer of probabilistic calculations makes you unable to sleep, then go ahead make a big deal about it. I can let myself live with small difference today or big difference tomorrow and small win 2 days from now.

I'm not discrediting Motenten here. I absolutely don't. It just I don't agree that people picking the end product (1 number : average) to make an absolute win/lose situation out of it and dismiss all the noises that might skew that number, by much.