Sam Gear Lvl 99

Getting hit gives you tp.
Mekira bodies give you tp.
Embrava gives you tp.

A number of factors can render an X-hit imperfect. Adding conserve-TP to the mix is just enhancing either TP overflow, or may coincidentally land you one hit less towards a WS, in which case, you will benefit from it with Kaiten (as the ws of argument.)

The whole "don't need acc cuz Kaiten is a single-hit" argument is silly. Pizza + relic also doesn't instantly cap your ACC. You should also be /war. Irregardless of whatever gear you may ws in, that's a 10% native second hit chance on your WS, which benefits more from acc than the initial hit.

9 acc and Conserve tp have uses for sure, and to justify using another piece of gear that only offers 1 attack difference is pretty silly, in my opinion.

Or you can continue to argue about one attack some more. Please, do.

Not really. You have a 13% chance at a proc, and only 5% chance at 20 TP. .13*.05 = .65%.

You don't benefit from TP overflow at all with Kaiten unless you barely manage to get TP for aftermath again, which should be never. And if you can't cap acc with amano+pizza, then have your brds sing acc songs, because other people will need that ***too.

Pretty HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to go after Dilaram's. Waste of an inventory space, seeing as you should have Unkai on you anyway.

Bolded and truncated to highlight my points

Namas!

One hit less would benefit any WS. TP overlow does nothing for Kaiten unless you're struggling to keep up aftermath. And no, if you're not capped on acc with both pizza and amano's acc, then hardly anyone else will be either, and therefore you should be using acc songs, and are going to be capped on acc. And FYI, dilaram's are better even if your acc isn't capped if your attack isn't.

That benefits any ws and tp overflow doesn't help kaiten sooooooo.... that makes no sense.

GDI beaten because I was trying to get quotes right D:<

How can you even attempt to justify 1Att as an inventory slot? If anything keep Unkai on for Sengikori.

Because it's mathematically a better WS piece regardless of your acc situation with 10% DA?

Conserve TP is realistically never going to give you 20+ stp, so it's still an inferior choice for ws~

Gdi beaten again D;< am done

I'd like to live in a world where I had enough room to justify carrying a piece because it was 1Att better then a piece that I am already carrying.

if you really NEED the acc, and have songs/pizza on, then why not go the extra mile and get the extra acc from unkai shoes? Since you're lacking att buffs, you're so far from capping attack on something that you need that much acc* on, that 1 atack is not going to make a noticeable difference, whereas the acc may, once again, alicorns in legion, and the harpies, are nearly impossible to cap acc on while keeping att up, unless you're doing runs with 36 people and have both acc and att songs/rolls on.

I wasn't justifying overflow being useful for kaiten. I brought it up as one of the two variables.

The second, shaving off a hit towards 100%tp, being the variable where conserve TP + other factors will benefit you. The instances when misc. tp gain resulting in one less hit towards weaponskilling, along with having an additional 9acc, was my justification to use Unkai +2 over Dilaram's.

Your statement was simply Amano+Pizza = capped acc. I said that isn't true in all cases, as some people take things like that very literally (ie. berserk = capped attack trend.) You brought up an additional BRD buff to try to prove what point exactly? It wasn't an argument towards anything. It was a statement to clarify what you said not necessarily being true in all cases.

If a level 120 mob has 600 defense, and I have 863 attack with dilarams and 862 with unkai

My cRatios are going to be .3883 and .3867.

3 fTP * .95 = 2.85 for main hit of both.

*.1*.95 = .095

.095+2.85 = 2.945

1*.1*.90 = .09

.09+2.85 = 2.94


flooring each step, 200 STR for both would be

((132+22+102)*2.945)*.3867 = 291
((132+22+120)*2.940)*.3883 = 292

"Oh it's only one damage!" So? Still better.

No, my statement was you should never be uncapped acc with amano+pizza. Need acc songs to cap? get them. don't? awesome then, don't need pizza? red curry it up.

Most likely better off uncapped on acc anyways to up your zanshin rate.

That was certainly a lot to leave out of your initial post. Had all the additional information been there, I would have agreed. However, it wasn't, and my comment was made afterwards.

/thatpointlessbanter

The only problem with that is you're never going to fight a Lv120 mob with 600DEF and have 863/862 attack. It's much more realistic to look at it from a standpoint of, minimum, 41%Chaos/1Minuet, so at the very worst a WS set will be in the range of 1300~1550 attack (Using Pizza)

Doing some runs in 14 atm, but we both know the difference between 1549/1550 isn't the same as 862/863, not to mention the security of landing your 2-x hits on Shoha, especially if the ACC granted from AF3+2 boots grants the ability to WS in Windbuffet, Mala, or both.

Except we were talking about kaiten, not shoha.

Realistically speaking, I don't think Kaiten is going to be used against the kind of target shown above, not over Shoha anyway.

What does this 1 point of atk does on targets where Kaiten is actually relevant, over Unkai +2?

The issue is, if you are going to use Unkai +2 for Shoha, there is absolutely no reason to carry Dilaram's for kaiten, ever. There is no such thing as 81/80.

Realistically speaking, it should be used over shoha. Since rearden is talking about full buffs, it's safe to assume at least dia 2, which would cap attack, and kaiten is better in said situations, again, making the acc irrelevant.

Which is why shoha is overrated.

yeah,spreadsheet comes out a fraction of a point better for the Dilaram's on a 600 def/500 eva/lvl 120 mob, with all the buffs you would expect during a 18 man legion, so you may or may not ever actually see that lol...I sure do love my inventory space vs a fraction of a point, I guess it depends on how much gil you can earn with 1 inventory space.

Is this taking into account that that attack bonus is first hit only?

If you can cap attack with kaiten, you're capping with shoha. So no. Point is, if you're buffed out the ***, kaiten is better regardless of what your acc is at. And I'd rather not cap acc for TP as a sam, since that increases zanshin proc rate.

Agreed on this, Shoha is severly lacking compared to Kaiten or Fudo in this type of scenario.

That's only taking the 99 version into consideration, which isn't really interesting for people who don't have it yet (***, I'm one of them). Step by step information is more useful.

I don't think I ever encountered the situation you mention, whether it was in Legion or in Provenance. Anything else calls for Stardiver.

So, as much as it's clearly 1 ATK, it's still not Byrnie +1 vs Phorcys Korazin tier, that's the issue.

What situation? Capping attack? And I agree stardiver would be the best choice, but not every SAM merits that either.

Most likely. I don't remember anyone casting Dia II, ever. Also, would it be appliable to Kaiten 90-95, or not? That's my other concern.

Can probably cap on Provenence honestly without dia 2, but god that's pretty awful WHM/SCH/RDM/BLM/BRD or anyone else who is /RDM or /WHM in those groups.