There seems to be a bit of common confusion on these forums as of late, so I figured I would clear things up with a little discussion on the WS damage formula.
The problem comes from the description of the new WS merits in the in-game menu. For example, for Exenterator, it will say "Raise the AGI modifier by 17%"
Well, let's talk for a moment how the WS damage formula works:
WS Base Damage = floor(( Weapon Base Damage + (Ammo Damage) + fSTR(2) + WSC ) * fTP)
I'll clarify a little for you:
1.) The floor() function rounds an decimal value down to the nearest integer. For example, floor(1.1) = floor(1.9) = 1
2.) fSTR and fSTR2 are functions of your STR and the target's VIT, which a little differently from each other and cap differently. fSTR2 is only used for Ranged Weapons. Essentially, fSTR(2) adds or takes away base damage to your weapon based on how much STR you have compared to your target's VIT.
3.) fTP is essentially the "power" of your weapon skill scaled to a normal hit. A normal hit has an fTP of 1.0.
4.) WSC is what we call the modifier of a WS, so in this case, when we merit the new weapon skills, we're altering the %modifier of the WSC. Essentially, WSC adds base damage to your weapon for the WS based on whatever the stat that modifies it is. WSC is also subject to level correction. We call this level correction factor α, and it varies with our level (starts out as 1.0 at level 1, decreases to 0.83 at level 75, and is 0.85 at level 99).
How do we calculate WSC then?
For a WS which is modified by stat A (X%) and stat B (Y%):
WSC = floor (floor((A x X%) + (B x Y%)) x α)
For the new WS, they've already taken account the level correction in the merit point description. So really, what they call a 17% increase, is actually a 20% increase scaled back by the 0.85 α-factor.
Notice: 0.85 * 20 = 17
0.85 * (20*5) 0.85 * 100 = 85
and since multiplication is associative
(0.85*20) * 5 = 17 * 5 = 85
tl;dr ALL NEW WS ARE 100% MODIFIERS AT 5/5 MERIT UPGRADES, SCALED BY A LEVEL CORRECTION FACTOR OF 0.85, WHICH RESULTS IN THE INTEGER PART OF 85% OF YOUR MODIFIER STAT BEING ADDED TO THE BASE DAMAGE OF YOUR WS.
In other words, there's no need to respond to threads with the title of this one. You're just showing that you don't know how the damage formula works.
17 * 5 = 100?
17 * 5 = 100?
what this doesnt make sense why doesnt it only be less than 100 i dont get it ur stupid
[+]
so dex makes this ws uber right??
merry xmas!
merry xmas!
[+]
Yeah I just hope ppl will read it and be less noobish but hope is a mother of stupid (or something).
SE devs just got owned by a homo in nice shoes (or w/e it was you called yourself in that other thread,no offense intended lol)
Bahamut.Atoreis said: »
Yeah I just hope ppl will read it and be less noobish but hope is a mother of stupid (or something).
... What?
[+]
Tights
Found this hilarious, just hope this wasn't a passive aggressive attack at me personally. I don't do all the crazy math, I have enough math in my life with Calculus, I don't need to bring school into FFXI, I just roughly understand what's going on behind weapon skills, modifiers, etc. and I make no attempts to be an expert any anything in this game ^^
[+]
This is not directed at any one person. It's directed at all 900 people who have asked this question in the past week.
And directed at anyone else who might make the same mistake. I'd rather step on a few toes and have the correct information circulating, than have a bunch of people doing the wrong math :(
And directed at anyone else who might make the same mistake. I'd rather step on a few toes and have the correct information circulating, than have a bunch of people doing the wrong math :(
[+]
Appreciated ^^
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
The problem comes from the description of the new WS merits in the in-game menu. For example, for Exenterator, it will say "Raise the AGI modifier by 17%"
I'm far too lazy to actually read all that, but from i understand, you're under the impression that is a simple linear equation. meaning each merit equals 17%. but 1st off, the 1st merit gives you the base, and each additional merit passed the 1st raises it by 17%.
17(X-1)+Y=100
X being the amount of merits, and Y being base.
btw that'd make the base ~30% which sounds about right for most ws.
Asura.Werdxi said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
The problem comes from the description of the new WS merits in the in-game menu. For example, for Exenterator, it will say "Raise the AGI modifier by 17%"
I'm far too lazy to actually read all that, but from i understand, you're under the impression that is a simple linear equation. meaning each merit equals 17%. but 1st off, the 1st merit gives you the base, and each additional merit passed the 1st raises it by 17%.
17(X-1)+Y=100
X being the amount of merits, and Y being base.
btw that'd make the base 40% which sounds about right for most ws.
It's amazing the conclusions we come to when we make up formulas out of the blue.
I'm sorry. I'll go home and leave the math to people with wild imaginations that don't read.
[+]
Asura.Werdxi said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
The problem comes from the description of the new WS merits in the in-game menu. For example, for Exenterator, it will say "Raise the AGI modifier by 17%"
I'm far too lazy to actually read all that, but from i understand, you're under the impression that is a simple linear equation. meaning each merit equals 17%. but 1st off, the 1st merit gives you the base, and each additional merit passed the 1st raises it by 17%.
17(X-1)+Y=100
X being the amount of merits, and Y being base.
btw that'd make the base ~30% which sounds about right for most ws.
thanks for info though OP, i forgot about the level correction stuff myself
Thanks for the clarification. I actually wanted to see the formula and why it was 100%. Makes complete sense now
I need to actually sit down, and read all these formulae one day ><
Edit: and force myself -.-
Edit: and force myself -.-
Thanks for the info, Sylow. Now, I will keep doing what I always do and ask someone who seems to know what they are talking about :)
[+]
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
stuff and maths
dear god.. thank you! so tired of explaining this to people....
[+]
ALSO:
An interesting tidbit about the modifiers on these WS, related to the floor() function:
If your modifier stat is 0 mod 20, 6 mod 20, or 13 mod 20 (that is, the remainder of your stat value when divided by 20 is 0, 6, or 13), it takes +2 of your given stat in order to increase WSC (and thus the base damage of your weapon during the WS) by 1.
In all other cases, adding +1 to your stat will increase base damage by 1.
An interesting tidbit about the modifiers on these WS, related to the floor() function:
If your modifier stat is 0 mod 20, 6 mod 20, or 13 mod 20 (that is, the remainder of your stat value when divided by 20 is 0, 6, or 13), it takes +2 of your given stat in order to increase WSC (and thus the base damage of your weapon during the WS) by 1.
In all other cases, adding +1 to your stat will increase base damage by 1.
[+]
So what's the value for alpha at level 99 now?
I'm reading up on BG at the moment stating it is 0.83 at level 75, decreasing by 1 every 5 levels.
Could you elaborate?
I'm reading up on BG at the moment stating it is 0.83 at level 75, decreasing by 1 every 5 levels.
Could you elaborate?
For whatever reason, it's been 0.85 (since 80 or 85, I think, but I'm not sure when it went back up).
[+]
Thanks a lot for mathing it all out dude.
Asura.Werdxi said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
The problem comes from the description of the new WS merits in the in-game menu. For example, for Exenterator, it will say "Raise the AGI modifier by 17%"
I'm far too lazy to actually read all that, but from i understand, you're under the impression that is a simple linear equation. meaning each merit equals 17%. but 1st off, the 1st merit gives you the base, and each additional merit passed the 1st raises it by 17%.
17(X-1)+Y=100
X being the amount of merits, and Y being base.
btw that'd make the base ~30% which sounds about right for most ws.
Amazing how some ppl can use math with "X" and "Y" but cant read with understanding lol.
I will make it even easier so even ppl like you can understand
THERE IS NO BASE
First merit gives 17% which is 20%mod*0.85Alpha 17%
Second merit gives another 17% for 2*20%*0.85Alpha 34%
Third merit gives another 17% for 3*20%*0.85Alpha 51%
Fourth merit gives another 17% for 4*20%*0.85Alpha 68%
Fifth merit gives another 17% for 5*20%*0.85Alpha which makes 85%
I don't get SE's logic behind making the system so damn convoluted to begin with, honestly. Why would you bother adding the alpha factor to correct for someone's level...isn't the whole point of getting higher levels to get higher stats, so why add the extra penalty to player as they level up? Why not just make their stats grow slower?
Just a question,does the modifiers on ws written around in wiki and bg wiki on all the ws,like emp one that is stated 60%,or old ws like tachi gekko 75% or relic 60%,those values are already calculated whit alpha,or they still need to be calculated?
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
I don't get SE's logic behind making the system so damn convoluted to begin with, honestly. Why would you bother adding the alpha factor to correct for someone's level...isn't the whole point of getting higher levels to get higher stats, so why add the extra penalty to player as they level up? Why not just make their stats grow slower?
BALANCE
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.