[dev1063] Job Adjustments: Warrior

Endgame weapons have always been too inaccessible to casual players. The Dynamis trials for relic upgrades were good too. They even lowered the Magian trial requirements on kills for relics which – while I myself got out of the way before they nerfed down – were still good for people trying to work through the game while maintaining a life. Empyreans 80-90 were a good break from the old relic/mythic model and a step in the right direction. Then Tanaka came back and put players back over the barrel.


Hybrid jobs will always get the short end of the stick. If they don't, they become massively overpowered and end up being used in ways that aren't their original intent and sometimes even do it better than jobs meant for those roles. (See: rdm and brd tanks…Kraken+SE drk. You really think drk was meant to swing a club around?)

You then proceeded to complain about nerfs that SE has made to actually restore jobs to their proper roles.

If you pick a job knowing it’s a hybrid job, you have to do so knowing you’re not going to be the absolute best at any one thing because if you were, you’d be alienating another job who’s only purpose is that one thing.

If you pick a job that excels at ONE thing – mnk and war straight-up DD, samurai pumping out skillchains, paladins tanking, white mages curing – and SE nerfs down your ability to do that one thing, it’s a bit different from them taking away a job’s ability to do something they weren’t meant to do.

I’m not overly upset about the changes to Warrior/Ukko’s Fury/Victory Smite in the bigger picture.

But I think the bigger picture is also getting pretty out of whack again. When you take these changes in context with the rest.

The only nice thing about samurai not being on top anymore was that a lot of the bandwagoners had gone away. I did enjoy that immensely.

I want to add to my prior bit:

I am not advocating the nerfing of hybrid jobs as a whole and many of them do needs some boosts now. Two of my four “main” jobs (corsair and dark knight) are hybrids.

Red Mage, for instance, being able to silence and paralyze and slow serious NMs effectively would be a godsend and entirely appropriate, for instance).

Dark Knight is not as bad off as some thinks it is. It’s still among the best DDs in the game. Just because we can't zerg things by flailing around with some stupid club doesn't mean it's nerfed. Same for Dragoon; it’s finally come into its own as a quality DD when well-geared.

Corsair doesn’t lack for a lot right now. I’d like a way to target rolls to individual people. And about 100 more inventory slots. That’s about it.

I’m sure Puppetmaster and Blue Mage could use something to make them better, but not overpowered. I don’t know. I don’t play them. I dislike them both on principle, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want people who play them to feel crappy. They could use some buffs, to be sure.

I could go on. My point is, the only time I feel nerfs are appropriate is when you’re taking away something that breaks job roles.

Make Masamune, Masamune is greatly inferior to Ukonvasara.

Make Ukonvasara, NERF *** EVERYTHING.

Brb, killing self

And RDM can solo Genbu at 41. Obviously that makes it universally overpowered.

If WAR can do that, so can other melee in Abyssea. I'd kinda doubt it anyway though, given the amount of offense Turul has and the tendency of WAR to be something of a glass cannon (PDT and MDT sets help, of course).

Im quite glad. Wars are starting to get stupid with their damage output got so bad with some they would drop pt after one death because they are stuck in abyssea mode and dont know how to control their output especially if a group is low on mages. The only job that can freely rip hate off my pld are wars that spam ukkos thats with me using CDC and spamming the crap out of voke and flash and covering when its up. On the other end of the spectrum ive seen poorly geared wars doing ~500 damage ukkos on the easiest vwnms. BR was overpowered anyway but it did gve a very nice boost to others damage unless you are a sam or drk.

I haven't played in a couple months but to me this really underscores the importance of playing the job you like the most and not playing the job that is the best.

For a LONG time my attitude was "I don't care what the animation looks like when my character swings/fires/sings/casts/etc. Whatever makes the monster dead more efficiently, that is what I will play." Then year after year all SE had to do was push a button and it upset the entire 'balance' everytime. All that work to acquire the items for 'efficient' jobs that would only be made worthless because of the inability to bring those jobs to events once they were nerfed or new events made them worthless.

Looking back I don't have many regrets, but one I do have is that I wish I would have just picked my favorite job and concentrated on that....developers be damned. Could have always leveled white mage or something to have an 'event friendly' job, but instead of having 8 really nicely equipped jobs just take that one I really liked and played the hell out of it.

You never know where the next 'ranger nerf' or 'manaburn nerf' or '2 handed adjustment' or 'utsusemi aoe nerf' or 'distance penalty' or 'ukon nerf' is going to come from. May as well play the job you like before they destroy it.

Lets blame abyssea.

While the blood rage nerf is complete and utter ***, I can kind of deal with the Ukko nerf after seeing 4k-5k Upheavals.
If 5/5 Upheaval can keep those numbers going then I'll be ok with 300% TP Ukko > Upheaval > Upheaval > Upheaval

Why would you want to keep hate on PLD tho? Unless ofc you lowmanning VW. Whats the point tho? Shout for ppl to feel te ally and benefit from it?

Unless you think PLD is the only job that can tank VW. I tanked every harder VW on WAR including new Tier 4-6. I tanked Ig-alima on 95 MNK. PLD is only needed for Jabba I think and only assuming you have Aegis.

I feel ye matey :(

Agreed, the only place Ukonvasara is "Overpowered" in comparison to other Empyrean weapons is Abyssea.

Mmm, this is all the more reason for me to get serious about Ragnarok and use Resolution. Gotta say, Blood Rage was kind of overpowered, but taking away the critical hit damage all the way really blows. :( Plus they nerfed Restraint, which has been a new favorite of mine since it came out(You could restraint on the last 5 mobs before say, an Einherjar boss, then stack it with Mighty Strikes and force a Steel Cyclone for 3200+ at level 80). I'd already noticed the restraint nerf, unless you build it up for a while it's like the JA isn't even on.

Now I lose the ability to make other WSes more fun during Mighty Strikes(i.e. one of my new favorites, Stardiver). I brewed Orthrus using Stardiver 3/5 and with Mighty Strikes Blood Rage and Razed Ruins and Sanguine Scythe of course... it was doing 12000 damage. With the loss of Blood Rage damage it drops to 9600 :( Guess I better hurry up and merit Stardiver/Resolution all of the way to see, "What could have been."

All in all though, I don't really care about losing Crit rate on Ukko's. I'm actually kind of tired of doing nothing but Ukko's. That was my main beef with Empyreans, specifically for Warrior. Channels you into using one WS, because nothing can even come close to it.

I look at the Victory Smite nerf like this though; if they hadn't nerfed VS along with Ukko's, then Monk would probably out damage Warrior on weaponskill, more often than not.

BS - go look at the BG thread for epeen damage.

Still don't like the nerf, but UF is awesome outside abyssea as well.

Puh-lease, no.
You're acting like there's no precedent for this.

Maybe we should go back to letting SAM's using Penta Thrust and getting 80% TP return after WS each time.

Maybe we should go back to Ranged Attacks ignoring enemy's defense, too.

Or maybe we could go back to when Utsusemi absorbed AOE spells, also.

Whatever, man.

If you spent 200M on a Ukonsavara, good for you. I hope you did it because you really enjoy/like/prefer WAR. If you did it just so you could swing a vastly-overpowered WS, well then, I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted.


Sorry if I seem insensitive. It's just a game, however. Look at the bright side; if it turns out these adjustments really crush WAR as a melee DD (which I highly doubt will happen), then you can hop on the next "bandwagon" and you'll have something new to occupy your time.

I'm trying to decide what Empyrean weapon to make next, but I probably won't tell anyone about it or it'll get nerfed in a week from completion.

The only two empyreans I even care about are getting nerfed, looks like it's time to bandwagon shoha and ditch my ukon.

I might do the same, except DAT swap Shoha to Fudo to make me feel like I didn't waste a Masamune too~

As noted above, make a weapon for the job you like the most. That way, even if it does get "nerfed", you'll still enjoy that job and weapon regardless.

Making a weapon just to be accepted by your peers isn't the way to go.

inb4 they think Shoha is too overpowered and adjust it. We just can't win anymore.

It's not about being accepted. I play my DD jobs to dominate other people. I have the most fun I'm winning parse.

A full 8hit-impetus VS already could, but those are so rare that War's avg would still be better.

That being said, monk was never overpowered with VS, what made monk over powered was its survivability over other jobs in Abyssea. Outside VS is strong, but nothing other jobs will find an-inbalance about.

All Im getting from all this are there are people out there complaining they will never do as much damage as a job thats suppose to put out high damage(war). That people want the new ws to be better than what they are or what we currently have. This not how you do it, you dont nerf something to make something better, you improve it.....


I can understand reducing Ukko's Crit rate on ws. Honestly I dont see it suffering -that- much. No reason to touch Bloodrage as its a buff for the entire party(what about those that dont have crit ws, then give it an attack boost in crit-dmg absense).




That being said, Ukko is still going to outdamage all the ws that it has continued to outdamage, it wasnt just the ws, it was the job that made Ukko...Ukko. VS is still going to be better than Shijin with impetus up.

SE has done nothing other than just make Shoha better.....than it was already. No shock there.

A-men

Not to be overly crass, but if "winning the parse" is what provides you with fun in a MMO, then you're playing the wrong MMO. If you have a burning need to "dominate" other people's pixels, then almost every other MMO out there offers much better PvP content than FFXI.

That's why I spend most of my time AFK in town while I'm playing Battlefield 3.

They can't just buff everyone's damage up to WAR's level, otherwise the game would be even easier than it is now. Ukkko's Fury/VS do like 6k+ to VW NMs while things like Drakesbane barely break 2k. SE saiud they would like to bring up other jobs to WAR and MNK's damage potential but after their damage total is reduced a bit.

On a 10-point scale, WAR and MNK are a 14. They want to bring them down to a 8.5 or 9 before bringing up all the 6's and 7's jobs(RNG/DRG/DRK/THF/DNC/BLU) up to par.

SAM will hopefully be dealt with soon as they've been SE's pet job for 10 years, getting new traits and JAs almost every update and stronger upon stronger weapon skills.

I was just thinking, since I hate BLU, maybe I should go finish Almace.

We'll see how that turns out.

It took them over a year to deal with WAR, so going by that I'd say SAM has at least a year with the throne.

I agree with this. But I can tell you from experience that even that doesn't play out how you'd think/hope. Talk to me in game some time if you want more on that, I won't go into any more of a diatribe here. :p