[dev1063] Job Adjustments: Warrior

SAM(Masamune) parse from real server from Kaggen few days ago:
1980 avg shoha
2053 avg shoha
Me on WAR with 95 Ukonvasara
2250 avg Ukko
2580 avg Ukko

Test Server Kaggen 95 Ukonvasara and a little worse equip than I have on real server
avg Ukko 1617

Yeah SAM for sure isnt overpowered with 30% stronger WS and ~30%higher WS frequency. NOT AT ALL!

And as I pointed out, Kantanotachi+Shoha SAM is the greatest SAM, which was about on par with a 90 Ukon, perfectly within the realm of winning a parse if played correctly.

Hay gais, I balanced it.

Fudo:total damage per round:4490
dps:317

-20% ws damage increase (+5% per upgrade, 0% at 80); because *** you, I'm not getting paid to do this and SE are a bunch of lazy shits that have already decided that this is an acceptable way to "balance" the game, except they didn't scale it up in any way, they just said "happy now?".
-attack/pDIF mod similar to YGK/S



Kaiten:total damage per round:4221
dps:298

-30% 2.5x dmg (+5% per stage, 5% at 75)
-25% ws dmg (+5% per stage, 0% at 75)
-4.0 ftp (+.2 ftp per stage, 3.0 at 75)
-attack/pDIF mod similar to YGK/S



Shoha:total damage per round:3330
dps:270

-Who are you kidding, this doesn't need to be improved.

Edit:
Compared to Ukko's:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27607/dev1063-job-adjustments-warrior/13/#1676566

Why were you wearing Snow Belt/Gorget with Tachi: Shoha?

I was just assuming a gorget/belt, I started with Fudo and Copy/pasted. Not sure if snow works with Kaiten either, but all I was implying was an elemental gorget/belt.

I might even be wrong about Fudo, but you severely underestimate how long it's been since I've intentionally geared SAM.

Ah, ok.
For the record, yes, one can use Snow Belt/Gorget with Kaiten, but not for Shoha.

Kaiten is Light/Fragmentation, so Thunder/Breeze/Light onry.

Looking at your shoha calculation
What are you trying to do here? Emphasis on bolded ones

Reference?

Come on man, SAM doesn't have 30% higher WS frequency in VW. Your test server numbers are done in a buffed pty? or solo?

Shoha is very comparable to Fudo in all my parses. The biggest thing with Shoha is the att bonus. With RCB,Stal,zerk you can take your pick of Shoha or Fudo they will fall within 5% of each other and nobody argued Fudo was game breaking.

The biggest buff to Shoha is the ease of access and TPbonus GKT. But SAM still isn't touching a WAR in VW. You posted yourself that you were parsing 80% more then SAMs before the Nerf.

There's a tachi:shoha thread like 2 threads down from this one... use it? I wanna see more war QQ

*edited after post*
The thread I said above.

SAM has never been nerf. The TP return nerf was MNK with base relic and asuran fists. Once they got 100 TP, they could pretty much endlessly WS.

Going from 2500 avg to 1600 avg is 44% less of 80% of my overall damage so around 35% of my total damage.

Thats almost a point where I am equal to that SAM. I was tanking this fight tho so even that it was pretty much zerg he joined fight -teen seconds after me which pretty much close the gap or put him above.

The difference is that he can use GKT that you can mae in 2 days and I use Gaxe that cost me month of running/shouting/farming and 200M gils.

What level was his masa?

You didn't have to 95 Ukon, for its light supgrade over a 90. The 95 Ukon I play with gets out parsed by 90 Ukon's all the time, its a coin toss since they are so similar.

You are also on the test server, so you don't have the benefit of a support group, no dia, rolls, songs.

I liked all your post on the forums up to the point that WAR got a nerf, now you are taking things out of context for a toy weapon you dumped 200mil in because of how broken it was. You were even testing to see if Vere or Ukon was more broken and bought the plates before you farmed your base Ukon.

ato i dont get it, whats so wrong with being equal? and for the record, going from 90-95 should = more dmg from a ws? so if ur ukon was lvl 90 would it be ok then?

i think you are taking this personal. they are lowering the crit rate for two ws. it doesnt mean war or mnk will be any less of a machine when it comes to procs and kills.

shiva.viciousss, the masa's in our shell are all 90 except one. but he was probably parsing against me or dillan.

The cratio calculation assumed 1.6 cratio (~950 attack as a midpoint between berserk up/down) on a mob with roughly 500 def at level 105 (fictitious mob). The 1.95 cratio on the weaponskill was based on the supposed attack/pdif mod on Shoha, I had heard around a 50% increase which would cap at 2.25, 1.95 level corrected against a 105.

The 4.55 is an attack round estimate. 5-hit build, -1 hit 95% of the time if the main hit of the weaponskill lands, so 4.05. Plus .5 for the chance of overflow TP (which would throw off the ws dmg and blah blah other stuff). I took the .5 overflow from motenten's spreadsheets, which are significantly more accurate than my calculations so if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.

* .7 for the 30% double attack rate results in an average of 3.1blah swings per round.

The (2*.17) is the double attack rate times the number of hits capped at 2, which is also the maximum additional ftp possible when only possessing the double attack trait. I was supposed to add the .34 to the ftp rather than multiplying by the ftp, which benefits single hit, high-ftp weaponskills (fudo/kaiten) more than multi-hit lower ftp weaponskills (ukko's/shoha), massaging the Fudo/Kaiten numbers slightly more than it should have.

The first cratio should have also been added rather than multiplied since a critical hit adds 1 to the cratio, which would have been fine had the cratio been 1, but multiplying the crit rate by the cratio would imply that the cratio was doubled and not incremented by 1 on a critical hit. This would affect the TP phases of all of the scenarios (marginally) and increased the damage from Ukko's (possibly significantly).

I had already done both of those things in multiple places before I caught the mistakes, so rather than finding the problems and fixing them I just pretended they didn't exist because I didn't think anyone would be smart enough to catch the mistakes, and if they were they wouldn't waste their time reading the details, so my hat is off to you and I might try fixing it all later. If you look closely you can actually see discrepancies between my initial calculations and the most recent ones because of smaller mistakes.

My formula's aren't ideal and were essentially just trying to capture a rough estimate of the average performance of the jobs, which does get distorted when I make mistakes like those. Motenten's spreadsheets were the origin of my initial claim that SAM > WAR, however, when I attempted to recreate the scenario, while I had similar numbers, WAR wound up ahead by a small margin. Rather than finding what I did wrong, I figured it'd just be easier to claim I was wrong rather than figuring out what I did since *almost* everyone was dead set on WAR > evarythingbyalandslide.

I attempted all of this while at work so leave me alone! ; ;

HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN!!!

I also forgot to add that I didn't account for the moonshade earring or meditate, neither of which I did simply because I didn't want to make it more difficult on myself than it already was.

The fact that sam should not be ws-ing as hard as a war can. Sam should be making up the damage difference with more ws frequency.

Im ok with crit nerf to Ukko, not ok with it being drastically reduced to 15% though. Not to mention restraint nerf and blood rage nerf on top of that. Was War that OP? I never felt it in abyssea on my monk ,and I never felt it on my sam outside abyssea.

Im ok with Warrior ws-ing as hard as they do, they arent healing mages, theyre DD....

Pretty sad commentary...

Also:
100% agreed.

You're way off on this, stalwarts should be easily full-timed, which should easily bring any DD to 999 along with RCB before other attack buffs(chaos+berserk).

As for your DPS calculations, I see a few errors that heavily favor your conclusions of TPbonus GK beating or coming close to Masa and nerf'd Ukon.

1) Champions drink. Should easily be able to full-time this in any type of VW scenario. Heavily favors crit WS and does nothing for Shoha.

2) You seem to be assuming ODD aftermath level 1? This is also unrealistic in VW. You should be starting every fight with 300% TP for 90 seconds of level 3. This heavily favors Masa and Ukon, does nothing for TPbonus GK.

3) Like Taint has mentioned, everyone has 2-3 hit builds, and w/ march 2x(the top DDs should have this), SAMs WS frequency is massively cut due to animation delays and the speed at which you're attacking restricting you from WSing every time you hit 100%. In an actual parse, you really won't see a drastic WS frequency difference between any top DD.

@Atoreis: Your "Kaggen" tests are eyeball speculation at best, and you're making too much of a fuss about something that really won't have much of an impact on WAR. WAR still has a lot to bring to the table in many situations(hi, fell cleave & weapon procs) that sam can't offer.

<- has only done 8 voidwatch fights total, and was stunning on blm, I would have never known any of that, but I had assumed that was plausible. Never got any temps either, it's probably because I have no clue what I was doing, but I didn't look it up, hence not knowing what I was doing.

No one is rocking Champions the whole time, all the time. It wears way too quickly. Besides that, everything is spot on.

Wouldn't the need to hit the weaknesses also affect damage output if you want to get really technical. In which case the best damage is whoever doesn't have to use other weaponskills lol.

Can usually get by with just magic procs and get a blitz bonus high enough to make the need for blue proc irrelevant. Even easier now with white proc and the new hint KI. As for myself, I haven't swapped out of Ukon since the update.

DRKs are sipping on the sweet tears of WAR QQing LOL

Why because they're still gonna be far behind, even after the nerf?