The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age

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The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms for a New Age
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 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 01:30:16
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Miser's is good because you can combine it with Save TP Atmacite for 45 TP return.

It's not going to let you solo-skillchain with just WS outside of Voidwatch, although you might technically have the capability of doing that when combined with the Save TP atmacite.

That said, you can't solo SC in VW reliably, it's not even worth trying.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-01-26 01:35:57
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If I look at the fight last night:
Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's

I'm pretty sure at least two of them skillchained. My WAR sucks so bad, lol. I haven't even gotten the level 90 gear for it yet.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 01:36:45
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You get lucky sometimes, lol. But there are just too many people going off all at once.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 01:40:32
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Miser's is good because you can combine it with Save TP Atmacite for 45 TP return.
and how much are we looking at without?
Quote:
That said, you can't solo SC in VW reliably, it's not even worth trying.
sorry if i implied that because i REALLY did not mean for people to do so.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 01:45:00
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Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
you should easily be able to self skillchain

no
are you referring to trying to skillchain in vw? or being able to do it with miser's period, because you can in fact melee-chain a 12 hit build and this is letting you do it in less.

Also, this seems impossible except at capped haste and even then, it depends on getting lucky with double attacks and job ability delay puts it in the unreliable category.

This is on top of the fact that a "12-hit build after WS" on DNC is pretty ludicrous with what you'd need to sacrifice to obtain it.

Without making any ridiculous sacrifices, you end up with a 11-hit after lucky miser's roll.

Also I'm pretty done with this, because I feel like an idiot whenever I discuss an X-hit when X > 6.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 01:49:06
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
you should easily be able to self skillchain

no
are you referring to trying to skillchain in vw? or being able to do it with miser's period, because you can in fact melee-chain a 12 hit build and this is letting you do it in less.

Also, this seems impossible except at capped haste and even then, it depends on getting lucky with double attacks and job ability delay puts it in the unreliable category.

This is on top of the fact that a "12-hit build after WS" on DNC is pretty ludicrous with what you'd need to sacrifice to obtain it.

Without making any ridiculous sacrifices, you end up with a 11-hit after lucky miser's roll.

Also I'm pretty done with this, because I feel like an idiot whenever I discuss an X-hit when X > 6.
did you miss the huge drawn out discussion i had about doing it a long while back? being able to reliably create bigger self chains will increase your DOT, it was just a matter of it being comparable to mainstream builds

you can feel like an idiot all you want about discussing X-hits, but when it opens ***up like that you are over-looking serious stuff.

edit: also you make it seem like under normal circumstances dnc cannot cap delay (or get damn near close) without outside help
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 01:51:06
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you need haste
+marches
+a corsair

to really even have a chance of making it work
in virtually all situations, you get to pick a maximum of two of those.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 01:52:20
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
you need haste
+marches
+a corsair

to really even have a chance of making it work
in virtually all situations, you get to pick a maximum of two of those.
my turn: No
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:01:17
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okay, prove that it works then.

my math puts capped haste (marches +spell) + lucky misers + 21 STP + /SAM + saber dance --> requires on average 4.86 seconds of melee to get back to 100 after a WS.

JA delay is 1 second, so 5.86 seconds. Skillchain window is something like 5-6 seconds? That's cutting it close.

This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:05:38
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By the way, new Waltz Potency Cap ----> 50%
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:06:39
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napkin math

miser's perfect is what +25?

exentorator gives me a 11 TP return normally

normal af3 TP setup with coruscanti/thockcha 5.2 tp a hit typical delay 101.62~

means you need to get 64~ TP, which is 13 hits, 13 hits without double attack is roughly 11 seconds

so with saber dance as well as the remaining double attack from equipment your average TP phase should be about 6 seconds.
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:08:32
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
you're again insinuating im using this thought process for vw or anything that is SIMILAR, cut that ***out.
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:09:07
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1.) Exenterator is a bad WS to use as an example, since it has unfortunate skillchain properties. Other WS favor your idea more anyway.

2.) 11 seconds goes to ---> 7.97 seconds with 38% double attack.
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:09:52
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Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
you're again insinuating im using this thought process for vw or anything that is SIMILAR, cut that ***out.

If you have a BRD + COR + DNC in the same party, you damn well better be zerging something.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:11:36
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
1.) Exenterator is a bad WS to use, since it has unfortunate skillchain properties.

2.) 11 seconds goes to ---> 7.97 seconds with 38% double attack.
Exenterator would be part of the skillchain creation, or did you forget the purpose of this?
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:12:05
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The important part of that was 7.97 seconds.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:12:37
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
you're again insinuating im using this thought process for vw or anything that is SIMILAR, cut that ***out.

If you have a BRD + COR + DNC in the same party, you damn well better be zerging something.
scroll back up to that part where i said no on brd
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:13:10
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You haven't convinced me it's possible without a bard.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:13:59
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
The important part of that was 7.97 seconds.
and the most important part of my quote is: normal af3 TP setup

aka not even trying, and you get close
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:15:02
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
You haven't convinced me it's possible without a bard.
additionally my napkin math was not including /sam
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:15:39
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7.97 seconds isn't anywhere near close.
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:19:30
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Using 36 TP return from WS, Corus/Thokcha, STP+21, /SAM, Haste+Haste Samba, 48% Dual Wield, 38% DA, you get avg. 7.27 seconds.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:20:26
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/sam change of neck, ammo, back and ring puts me at 6.29 seconds with 33% double attack, im kinda trying now.
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:20:44
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Not using /SAM you get 7.81.


Add one to everything due to JA delay.
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:21:46
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.


Add one to everything due to JA delay.
that was included in my original 11
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:23:27
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Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.


Add one to everything due to JA delay.
that was included in my original 11

Your original 11 is 10.79 before JA delay (so 11.79)
I've been calculating without JA delay as a factor (nothing we do can reduce it, so it's inconvenient to have in there), so add 1 to all of my numbers.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:25:09
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.


Add one to everything due to JA delay.
that was included in my original 11

Your original 11 is 10.79 before JA delay (so 11.79)
I've been calculating without JA delay as a factor (nothing we do can reduce it, so it's inconvenient to have in there), so add 1 to all of my numbers.
mk also, do cor's only have 1 roll at 99 now?

edit: because last i checked they use tacticians all the time when i played, which wasnt long ago
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:27:01
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Even with +50 store TP added without interfering with haste or DA, it's still not working.

Not to mention all of these factors assume lucky Miser's.
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-26 02:29:08
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Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.


Add one to everything due to JA delay.
that was included in my original 11

Your original 11 is 10.79 before JA delay (so 11.79)
I've been calculating without JA delay as a factor (nothing we do can reduce it, so it's inconvenient to have in there), so add 1 to all of my numbers.
mk also, do cor's only have 1 roll at 99 now?

If you're going to try to rely on tactician's, lucky tactician's doesn't even make it reliable if you can somehow magically get 3 tics in 5 seconds.
 Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-01-26 02:30:29
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no i just find it odd how you only included 1 roll but was so quick to add a bard.

also you really only need 2~ tics to make it solid anyways.
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