The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age

4% crit hit damage < 18 attack and 5 dex?

hmm... i dont actually know

i guess i can see it going either way

edit: wait noooo Athos's tights has 5 dex, 4% crit hit damage, AND 2%~ crit rate, that should beat out tumbler trunks's 18 attack and 5 dex right?

it's 1-2%, i wish someone would test the set bonus better ;/

also the +4% crit dmg only affects crits that you land, whereas the +18 attack is a boost to every hit, whether it's critical or not.

it's not clear cut, to be honest.

I'll examine it more closely.

Also worth considering would be Ocelomeh+1 with the set bonus. BUT, I think Cuauhutli+1 may still pull ahead, especially if Saber Dance is up.

Exenterator? What do I do about belts? Athos's Tabard for the body?

I would think Athos's Tabard > Denali Jacket > Loki's Kaftan > Toci's Harness for body.

Crudelis (?) Anguinus

I honestly am not sure which is better of the two.

I think my server has seen exactly 1 +4 AGI earring, but I'm pretty sure it would beat Aesir?

But while you're awake!

Evis\\Outside:
Athos Tights > Tumbler Trunks? (considering 2/5 set bonus)

I mean you already put Athos's gloves there. 4% crit hit rate won't be manifested until you put the 2nd Athos's (none in your set),... which I think it's best to pick tights as the 2nd piece.

I think we can leave the headache picking the right Exenterator gear for the current gear selection is really awkward. Not until Denali +5 hands, legs, feet is obtainable.

If you put a 2nd piece of Athos, you get 1-2% crit rate, not 4%. You'd need 3/5 to get 2-4% crit rate from the set.

Without testing it myself, I don't know the exact value. But reported is no more than 2% for each piece after the first. (If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably 1% per piece after the first, then 5% for 5/5.)

Edit: I could be wrong though, I've seen conflicting reports. If it is truly 4% for the first pair, then it's a no-brainer which one wins.

I am not sure about Tumbler vs. Athos's. I guess it probably depends what crit rate you expect.

As far as the Athos set bonus, I have 2/5 but don't have ways to increase my crit rate in increments below 5%. I don't want to waste merits right now because I still haven't capped Exenterator (4/5 after tonight).

It's 3% for the first pair, just posted by Proth a few minutes ago.

here

Anyway, I think that probably makes Athos the clear winner.

edit: beat

Also Byrth, test server wtf >:C infinite merits son

Revised:



Now the only thing I'm not 100% sure on is Potestas Bomblet vs. Charis Feather

Also Byrth, your Exent set looks pretty close to what I already had slotted for this thread:



I'm not 100% sure on Cuahu+1 vs. Ocelomeh +1
or Crudelis vs. Anguinus

A second Stormsoul should OCCASIONALLY be better than Epona's, but the difference between them is so minute I wouldn't bother with it.

Pretty much everything else should be shoo-ins for BiS.

lol, it is because I spend too much time on the Test Server that I don't have Exenterator 5/5! Thanks for the testing, Prothescar!

Also, I have to look over her math, but Austar and I have been poking around the Praxidikai OA2-4...

ANYWAY, apparently

Thokcha/Thokcha gets TP faster than Thokcha/Praxi2-4. And this is before Sabers go up (Austar assumed 13% DA. Putting up Saber Dance or adding more DA from other sources obviously makes the situation even worse for Praxi)

Which ... basically eliminates OA2-4's use as a support option for at least non-empyrean DNC.

So for non Empyrean support options

Centovente StoreTP/Fusetto+3 StoreTP (Fastest TP gain, less DPS)
Thokcha/Centovente Store TP (Balance TP gain / DPS)
Thokcha/Thokcha (Best DPS and still decent TP gain)

To be honest, it's probably best just to go with Thokcha/Thokcha if you're a non-empyrean/non-coruscanti DNC in a supporting role. You'll gain TP faster than your waltz timers will cool down.

I want to dig further into the interaction of OA2-4 with Twashtar/Coruscanti main hands, just to see how it fares against other options for support if you're main-handing one of those. I'd say Coruscanti can probably replace the main-hand Thokcha in any of those setups without changing anything.


tl;dr I'm about ready to write off OA2-4 Praxidikai as complete and utter trash, in all scenarios

But like I said, I need to review the numbers and examine some more combinations.

As an fyi, Praxidikai is why I haven't finished the dagger section yet. It's an annoying little piece of crap.

I don't know how you are doing your math, but I get the OA2-4 (30/20/10 distribution assumed) giving 25~30% more TP/second than a second Thokcha.

I also left mine at level 90.

That's what I would have thought, I'll have to look over Austar's math later on when elliptic curves aren't destroying my brain.

It sounds somewhat off to me.

Okay, yeah, this makes more sense:


So yeah, previous statement retracted, I apologize :3
Edit: Assumes Samba+ Haste

That said, I'm not convinced the extra TP gain is worth it except maybe if you're trying to WS proc mobs in Dynamis.

While I realize dagger and sword are completely different beasts, the OA2-4 sword is completely crippled compared to, say, a STR sword. The case is probably also true for dagger if they follow even a slight general same path, but I'm pretty much just guessing since I've never used a dagger in my life and haven't cared about them ever.

Maybe holds some sort of grounds for dagger, but probably not: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18640-Offhand-for-almace?p=252483&viewfull=1#post252483


Guess it depends on what DNC can get for TA/DA, it's probably behind BLU but I doubt by much when considering Saber Dance.

tl;dr, what I wrote in that post: It comes down to a delay difference which makes for slower TP gain and aftermath damage, while DA/TA significantly reduce the effectiveness of an OA2-4 sword(dagger), which only works in one hand, reducing its impact, and low base damage contributing to further loss of DOT that isn't compensated for by a minor or nonexistent increase in WS frequency.

Should hold true for a Twashtar DNC.

TP per second without Haste:

	/NIN	/WAR	/SAM
Thok/Para	4.725	4.87	5.27
Thok/Thok	3.675	3.975	4.1
Twash/Para	4.9	5.05	5.46
Twash/Thok	3.82	4.13	4.26
Twash/STP	4.23	4.57	4.67
Thok/STP	4.14	4.48	4.57
STP/STP	4.62	5	5.13
Twash/Coruscanti	3.83	4.14	4.27
Coruscanti/Thok	3.68	3.99	4.11
Coruscanti/Para	4.74	4.89	5.29
Coruscanti/STP	4.15	4.49	4.58

21 STP, 13% DA, 47% DW, and 3% TA assumed. I should have used 48% DW, but I didn't.

It's completely crippled from a DPS standpoint, the main issue here is support-style DNC, which is pretty much a dead and ineffective playstyle, but I have to discuss or people will be disappointed.

There are two dagger options (OA2-4 and Store TP) which to varying degrees reduce your DPS potential, but accellerate TP gain.

The thing is, it never was TP that limited us. So the value of accelerated TP gain at a cost of reduced DPS is dubious, even in a support role.

Byrth, would you be willing to do that assuming Saber Dance, too?

Yeah, the justification for the OA2-4 weapon has never been DPS. You justify it by saying that it gives the most TP for support-role DNC.

Because of this, I don't see any real point in repeating the above with Saber Dance. You can't Waltz with Saber Dance.

Would probably argue that you'd be better off still using a DPS dagger due to TP feed and the overall loss of killspeed on the monster, but I can't really argue it too much since I'm not a DNC.

Yeah, I thought about that, but it was more for curiosity than anything.

I wasn't sure if you just used a spreadsheet and could change the DA value on a whim :3

If you`re in a 6 person party with two buffers and your offhand is the difference between using 4 DDs or 3 DDs and one healer, it is better to offhand whatever works. Those situations simply don't exist anymore, though.

The difficulty is more getting the data on here in a table than adjusting what it is on my spreadsheet, lol.

You may not be a DNC, but I do agree with you.

I lol'd

Anyway, Byrth is right about those situations being nonexistent in today's game.

They won't be popping up in VW, and it doesn't seem like they'll be popping up in Legion, so ...

Future looks pretty grim for support DNC.

I have the final version and all I have really used it for was building TP to do the trials for my +100TP bonus dagger (which I also hardly ever use) and for helping people break ws-trial weapons.

I have made a lot of useless daggers -_-;; I wish I had your guide before I started them all.