Why does condescension have to play any part in it? That right there is why a lot of people fail to make any difference and usually just inspire outrage instead. Try not looking down upon others and instead look them in the eye.
Put simple, effort. It took, and continues to take effort to put myself in an informed position. I don't think I'm more intelligent than anyone else, but I know with utmost certitude that I spend a great deal more time educating myself on the things that I assert than those who have a tendency to blindly disagree. If one wishes to forgo the learning process and instead jump into debate without the faculties necessary to make informed arguments, I see no reason to go out of my way to treat them with polished, flowery dictum in an effort to preserve their feelings. Quite the opposite, actually.
I hardly think this is the place for a critique of my posting style, though, so lets do what's necessary to keep the past several hours of our discussion from being removed.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well.
People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false.
Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god.
In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion.
Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening:
It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh).
tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
Because they're much less or not at all indicative of sickness. If someone is coughing particularly hard or is obviously sick I will make an effort to portray a sense of concern, by saying "Are you alright?" or "I hope you get better soon."
I like your last statement. If you wish to voice concern then why not just say "are you ok?" If you don't mean "may my god bless you" then why say it?
Because I'm not saying "May God Bless you". I'm not trying to force whatever beliefs you may or may not be attributing to me down your throat. The only reason I even say "bless you" for sneezing is because of convention.
Additionally, back to your previous comment, if someone belches obnoxiously or coughs on me, it is polite for THAT person to apologize or say "excuse me". Saying "thank you" when someone is polite or expresses concern over your well being is also polite. Saying or avoiding these comments doesn't make one more or less holy/religious. It does make them more or less polite.
I completely agree with mostly everything you just said. But why say something you don't mean? Say "I hope you're ok" or whatever. "Bless you" is a religious statement, whether you mean it as such or not. Regardless of how common it is, that doesn't change it's meaning.
I don't view "bless you" in that context as religious, I view it as a reflexive, easy, polite comment. When I ask people "What's up?" or "How's it going?" I'm generally saying "Hello", not asking for an extended story about their day.
Why does condescension have to play any part in it? That right there is why a lot of people fail to make any difference and usually just inspire outrage instead. Try not looking down upon others and instead look them in the eye.
Put simple, effort. It took, and continues to take effort to put myself in an informed position. I don't think I'm more intelligent than anyone else, but I know with utmost certitude that I spend a great deal more time educating myself on the things that I assert than those who have a tendency to blindly disagree. If one wishes to forgo the learning process and instead jump into debate without the faculties necessary to make informed arguments, I see no reason to go out of my way to treat them with polished, flowery dictum in an effort to preserve their feelings. Quite the opposite, actually.
I hardly think this is the place for a critique of my posting style, though, so lets do what's necessary to keep the past several hours of our discussion from being removed.
Whenever I read anything from Minjo I picture his avatar saying it. Similar to those who read text from a Brit in a British accent.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well. People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false. Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god. In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion. "What?! That's ridiculous! Damn conspiracy theorist!" Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening: It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh). tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
So this is what the crazy people on the other side of the spectrum look like...
Really? I'm crazy for not thinking like you? You're right, let's just continue to say something we don't mean. If you're concerned why not just say "are you ok?" Why does it need to be "bless you"? It's like saying "I pray for you" when you don't pray. Why?
You're crazy because you don't respect anyones view of the world but your own. Why should I have to say "are you ok" if I want to say "bless you"? Why are you trying to change someones way of life that, in all honesty, doesn't affect you at all and is most likely just someone practicing a social norm like saying hello when you meet someone.
You're just like those religious zealots that preach that "you're going to hell if you don't beleive what I believe" instead you're just saying "Oh if you have faith you're contributing to the downfall of humanity"
Why not spend your time trying to foster relationships between those who believe and those that do not. Isn't it better for us to understand each other as people rather than try to tear eachother down? I mean really, how much different are you from that guy telling someone they're going to hell. You just seem to be on the other side preaching the equivalent. You just make it seem like your some kind of victim of living in this religious world!
I do hear about things that matter at times where people believe there is too much religious influence in our government and that is something that I think would be a worthy cause and worth trying to change. Maybe I'm trying to force my viewpoint too much, who knows.
I'll say this like I commented on before to Minjo. Come off as an aggressive *** and you're only hurting your own cause. Spend some time getting to understand people and speak to them like they're your peer and you get a lot farther in furthingering your cause. They way you come off you're really just offending most people and especially on the other side? you don't care? Well you're more like those you criticize every day.
You're right, let's just continue to say something we don't mean. If you're concerned why not just say "are you ok?" Why does it need to be "bless you"? It's like saying "I pray for you" when you don't pray. Why?
The "Are you ok?" is generally saved for a time when they might actually need some help. "Bless you", note the lack of "god" which I don't even remember the last time I heard included, is simply a universal social courtesy we have adopted within the english language. If someone sneezes and blood sprays everywhere I'll whip out the "Are you ok?"s but otherwise "bless you" is just like saying "Hey, you sneezed at/on/in my general direction/area but it's all good". If you honestly think people are saying it with any attempt to have some all powerful being bless you then you are trying to hard to be offended.
I don't view "bless you" in that context as religious, I view it as a reflexive, easy, polite comment. When I ask people "What's up?" or "How's it going?" I'm generally saying "Hello", not asking for an extended story about their day.
Language is very heavily context dependent.
It also provides context as to how ingrained religion has been into our lives. From the moment we enter society, we are faced with religious idioms that, haven't so much lost their meaning as they, have become so common that no one even puts a thought into their usage. It's still there though, and I can't tell you how many people I've upset by deciding to use Gesundheit instead of "Bless you."
There's no difference. The fact that someone is offended by you saying "Gesundheit" instead of "Bless you" is no less silly than someone getting upset because you said "Bless you" instead of "Gesundheit". It's the gesture, not the words that are important.
The fact that there are some things that were historically religious in context doesn't make them any less relevant today.
A similar example would be when someone says "Oh god", 90+% of the time it has nothing to do with them praying to god but is just a statement of general disatisfaction.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I've heard my wife say this phrase many times, often in rapid succession, and it's never been when she's dissatisfied. On the contrary, she uses it when she's experiencing deep (no pun intended) satisfaction.
I don't agree, only because the words are a part of that gesture, and the implications of those words are different. Sure, it meets the same societal demand, but their own context is different.
and whoever is feeeling wronged or attacked by what he said please read the second highest rated comment.
I don't understand how this paints him as some brilliant intellectual. The second comment is just as extreme as the view it's trying to attack. Yes some feminists take it too far, but it's also crucially important not to take the fact that they take it too far as an excuse or a mask to confuse what oppression does occur today. Whether a man tries to further it or not, there are differences in power between identity groups.
I don't agree, only because the words are a part of that gesture, and the implications of those words are different. Sure, it meets the same societal demand, but their own context is different.
Maybe in a segregated context where it's atheists versus theists.
If the intent of the religious individual is to flaunt their religion, then you have a secondary objective. If the intended lack of a thank you is to show your contempt for religion then you have a secondary objective. When you stop worrying about the difference there is no secondary intent involved. The primary intent is to show concern and be polite.
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
That's fine by me. I don't care if you choose to avoid saying "bless you". I just think it's silly to get offended by me saying it, regardless if I mean it with a religious edge or not.
Honestly though... How many people actually intend to ward off demons from passing through your nose when they say bless you? Like its been said many times before in this thread, most people theist or atheist, say it with no intent other than to say bless you because you sneezed.
That video isn't alternative medicine like Homeopathy. Its alternative treatment is all.
I understand your sentiments. I personally wouldn't ever take Chemotherapy under any circumstances. I'd rather try the treatment in this video or somewhere else before I personally would ever turn to Chemotherapy. My dad went through so much pain that in the end he just wanted it to be over.
I won't add anything else for a bit. I'm way too emotionally involved. Have a good day guys.
I finally got around to watching the video. It was, for better or for worse, exactly what I thought it would be. It's convincing enough for those who want it to be true, but beyond that, it holds no scientific merit. The fact that they open the video with a bundle-pack of logical fallacies isn't particularly helpful.
Moral of the story, the video outright lies in several instances(particularly in regard to the treatments' FDA approval), and the medical community views his research as pseudo-scientific nonsense. He's been in, and continues to be in several legal battles over the illegitimacy of his practices.
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
That's fine by me. I don't care if you choose to avoid saying "bless you". I just think it's silly to get offended by me saying it, regardless if I mean it with a religious edge or not.
Curious now, what exactly qualifies you to dismiss everything so diligently as an outright falsification? Is there some sort of absolute knowledge you hold but vaguely imply in your posts?
What exactly makes statements from the medical community pseudo-scientific?
You seem to hold everything in a negative light but present virtually no answers or solutions otherwise.
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
It seems like all nowadays is about choosing your words carefully. No more Christmas break, Merry Christmas. Now I have to be worried about saying a common phrase such as bless you to an atheist? I don't know if a random stranger is atheist or not, it's not like I say it to intentionally harm them. :< I just miss the days when I could just say something instead of thinking in my head "Is this person an X, Y, or Z? I guess I shouldn't say this then..."
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
That's fine by me. I don't care if you choose to avoid saying "bless you". I just think it's silly to get offended by me saying it, regardless if I mean it with a religious edge or not.
Never heard of him, but hes in hell because hes not a christian.
Not trolling, i'm super cereal. You guys need to go to church. You might learn something.
No thanks. I don't see myself believing in magic powers just because a book with no references to reality says so.
Suppose I could join a church if I ever get to the point where I don't want to think for myself anymore. For the time being, I value evidence and reason too much to be religious.
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
It seems like all nowadays is about choosing your words carefully. No more Christmas break, Merry Christmas. Now I have to be worried about saying a common phrase such as bless you to an atheist? I don't know if a random stranger is atheist or not, it's not like I say it to intentionally harm them. :< I just miss the days when I could just say something instead of thinking in my head "Is this person an X, Y, or Z? I guess I shouldn't say this then..."
Not sure how you got that from my post. I'll say Gesundheit and don't care who I offend. In fact, if someone wants to pick a fight over it, I will bulldoze over them about it without a concern for their feelings. If your definition of "Choosing your words carefully" encompasses what you said, then I don't, by your definition.
Honestly though, I don't mind the change toward secularism. The religious see it as something scary – and they should. There's always gonna be the *** taking it too far though, on both sides. I tend to ignore them.
I just regard it as choosing your words carefully instead of being on auto-pilot. I'd rather intentfully wish someone good health, than pass a blessing over them, on auto-pilot, so that demons don't enter through their nose.
It seems like all nowadays is about choosing your words carefully. No more Christmas break, Merry Christmas. Now I have to be worried about saying a common phrase such as bless you to an atheist? I don't know if a random stranger is atheist or not, it's not like I say it to intentionally harm them. :< I just miss the days when I could just say something instead of thinking in my head "Is this person an X, Y, or Z? I guess I shouldn't say this then..."
Not sure how you got that from my post. I'll say Gesundheit and don't care who I offend. In fact, if someone wants to pick a fight over it, I will bulldoze over them about it without a concern for their feelings. If your definition of "Choosing your words carefully" encompasses what you said, then I don't, by your definition.
Honestly though, I don't mind the change toward secularism. The religious see it as something scary – and they should. There's always gonna be the *** taking it too far though, on both sides. I tend to ignore them.
I didn't mean to single you out, it's just that yesterday I said Merry Christmas to the whole class because it was our last day. Later I got a paragraph about it from my teacher about how I should choose my words carefully, sorry it just struck my memory D:
On a serious note though, the reason people don't like to say just Merry Christmas is because not everyone celebrates it. Mostly other faiths, like Islam and Judaism. I just see Happy Holidays as being plural, and including them. As far as being corrected by a teacher though? It's not her place to get involved.
Curious now, what exactly qualifies you to dismiss everything so diligently as an outright falsification? Is there some sort of absolute knowledge you hold but vaguely imply in your posts?
What exactly makes statements from the medical community pseudo-scientific?
You seem to hold everything in a negative light but present virtually no answers or solutions otherwise.
My qualifications are in recognizing unscientific procedure. That, and research.
A portion of the critiques of his pseudo-scientific simplification of cancer treatment,
