PLD Relic/mythic/emp Discussion

Never said that.

300/400 = .75 Ratio

cRatio = .75 - (75 - 75) * 0.05 = .75

Average pDIF = 0.72377425

To make it simple I'll use 90 Almace.

61 x 0.72377425 = 44.150 Floored to 44.


Now let's add 100 attack like you think is useless.

400/400 = 1.0 Ratio

cRatio = 1.0 - (75 - 75) * 0.05 = 1.0

Average pDIF = 1.006069

61 x 1.006069 = 61.370 Floored to 61.


That's more than a 38% increase.

Wow! This thread really went off road...

Like i previously said i think it's all about balance.
You go wrong if you go 0% haste.
You go wrong if you go all att.
You go wrong if you go all turtle.

That's why this game is so fun. Adaptability.


I personnaly use a set that give me iddle:
30 enmtiy
-28% MDT (There's MDB in there)
-20% PDT
12 % haste.

I macro in for cure and Flash.

I macro in for WS.

I think it can help deal good dmg. Put recast lower.
Add good enmity. And mitigate dmg taken, thus enmity loss.

Well, you're obviously doing it wrong if you don't have 25%/26% haste and over 9000 attack, because PLD is a DD nowadays.
Your job is no longer to hold hate so everyone else can do their job but to destroy everything so other DD jobs become obsolete because there is just no way ever that you will be able to hold hate against anything in the gear that a PLD is supposed to use.

Ochain and Aegis are bollocks as well, since they would only slow your dmg taken down and would make you more like a tank job, that is supposed to mitigate dmg and stuff.

I think I've made my point and if I want to play like I do, I do it.
If ppl want to look pretty while playing, go ahead. I shall get new event gear too, like a swim suit and a polearm.

/sarcasm off

Grandthief really does'nt _want_ to understand what everybody is trying to say too him.
Let's just leave him alone, let him be speshull if he wants too.

Hate to say it, but that's how you hold hate. By, ya know, capping haste and DDing.

Did you read anything?

This. You can't make someone change the way they think, and he has no interest in adjusting his point of view. Leave him be.

You sure you shouldnt be asking that question to yourself?

You either failed at using sarcasm or are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.

Enough.

Quite sure I am, this time. I admitted several times that a haste/DD set has it's uses and that it is very useful in order to accumulate hate, as well as dealing dmg (if you really need this because you forgot to bring actual DD, duh), for example under Pallisade where you wont have to worry much about hate loss or dmg mitigation.

I believe Parses are much more unreliable. Math provides much better, and more realistic representations of ideal situations. Any good math-crafter however would acknowledge these in their posts, even though they shouldn't need too, as every intelligent person would already know this. (Notcallingyoudumbhere)

Parses just leave entirely too much room for human error, while we're all susceptible to Human error, its reliable because even if you use the same people and same gear, every single one of the parses could come up different results because of multiple variances... due to things like people dying, disengaging, pulling back to proc, etc.

You could parse a RDM out-DDing a Vereth MNK. Won't mean much because the MNK could have been dead 90% of the fight. T

I'll take math over parses any day because they show an accurate, human-error removed representation of every weapons full potential in ideal circumstances, and a good crafter would even include multiple non-ideal situations for each, to give a fuller representation of each situation.

The only problem with this is unknowns. Unknown buffs, etc.

really, Both have some form of pros and cons but i believe math is more reliable. This is from like, 5 Pages ago :D Just wanted to comment. CARRY ON PLDBROS

Edit: Oh btw, I'm not saying what he posted back then was correct information. Not by a long shot.

Gonna' have to agree, not so much because I think you're wrong, but because you phrased it terribly.

Parses are excellent for establishing the foundations for our mathematical models, but that's usually about it. For instance, parses to establish definitive block-rate ranges for a certain shield are perfectly acceptable, while a parse using two different shields against an NM to gauge which shield is superior is going to tell you next to nothing.

I have to agree too

2 pple agreeing on a PLD post is something never seen before no?
J/K : )

Was bored and re-read this thread, but one thing someone said seems to be a piece of misinformation:

Atonement from lvl 95 Burt can/will still be resisted (i.e. cut down severly by -DT, -MDT, or -Spirit Damage).

The sad tragedy with this is -everything- you'd bring Pld for (VW mostly) has one of these native -DT traits, usually about 50% or so. Meaning you can only expect Atonement to hit in the 3-400 range, which is pretty pathetic. The also doesn't take into account enmity resets which *** atonement damage.

You can still however open with 300 TP atonement and then ride out Vorpal Blades for better damage for the next 180 seconds, however if damage is your main concern I'd go with Excal/Almace.

Is Aegis's "Enhances Shield Bash V" now +250 base damage?

Looking at parses from VW t3 I just don't see where Excal would be able to compete. Temp items, atmacites (save TP + regain) and enlights accuracy bonus heavily favor Almace.

Anyone else have comments on this?

@Byrth, with Aegis 95, Valor+1 hands, Knight's Earring, and Fenian ring, my Shield bashes are usually around 380. Which would point to +250 damage bonus. I can test sometime naked to be sure.

@Gustavve:

I would think Excal wins in the fights that prevent you from WSing frequently (Kaggen's amnesia). Other than that, with meds keeping your pDif from being too horrible and increasing WS rate, as well as procs keeping them coming, I would agree Almace probably helps a bit more.

But *** it, relics are cheap now!

If excal then only slightly on Kaggen. I parsed <70% acc on the 2 Kaggens I have. That's keeping enlight/aggressor up when possible. I'm sure some of that due to turtle gear w/e Aegis.

How far behind 90CDC is Vorpal Blade vs VW t3's?

I'm not sure (from a parse perspective) due to mostly riding T3 aftermath (Atonment -> Vorpal, Vorpal, Vorpal... -> Atonement), and thus my Vorpals containing a lot of OA2s and OA3s from mythic.

I would assume CDC is about 15-20% higher generally, but I'm sure we could math it out if we assumed some pDif and level factors.

If you're specifically comparing Excal95 to Almace90, then we're comparing:

30-50% ODD (accounting for times aftermath isnt up) to constant ~7% 2.5x damage (I think I read it was upped to 7% in the last BG relic testing thread, would have to read up on it, may be more or less).

61 base damage to 69 damage (and 35 attack).

The additional effect only has to proc once between 0 and 100tp to make up the WS difference between Vorpal and CDC.

Would have to know an exact parsed proc rate on the additional effect and 2.5x damage at 95, though I'm not seeing Almace pulling ahead, even on mobs that Amnesia a lot.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.

Do you have any parses from Kaggen. Just wondering what your vorpals avg with the burtgang aftermath. I've been getting between 650-700 avg with Almace 85.

On Akvan its around 900 avg.

Actually, if the pattern continued it would be +240 damage. idk why I messed up the last time. Is that it?

Does anyone have extensive testing on the 95 Excalibur? I could upgrade my mules to 95 but it serves no purpose other than testing.

What kind of testing are you looking for? The swing multiplier and its current frequency are now known and documented(assuming it follows the same pattern as every other weapon with its multiplier value), and the additional effect proc rate hasn't changed.