Occupy Wall Street Protests |
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Occupy Wall Street Protests
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The recent national "debt crisis" which amounted to nothing more than huffing and puffing from both sides of government did nothing more than show how dysfunctional both parties in this country are. The Republicans have written off any attempt to fix our US problems until after the '12 election and the Democrats are spectacular in their inability to get things done due to the obstructionism and division within the party. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » These people are a joke, I bet if anyone offered any single one of those people a 100k/yr job they'd drop their signboard instantly take up resident as the evil 1% they so fully despise. Meanwhile they are are trashing the place and full of hatred. This is "community organizing" at its finest. Funded by union money and interests. I never knew left wingers were so jealous of "tea partiers". I really think that they don't hate the "bailout nation", they just want their OWN bailout. I think you are really off base with these statements. First of all 100k/yr I dont believe would put you in the top 1%, but anyway what is the point of this statement? They are there to protest the fact that they want a better future than the one being shown to them atm. So if you offered them a better future why wouldn't they jump on it? Places can be cleaned up, quit acting like this is a big deal. They haven't started burning cars and tearing buildings down. This is a trivial attack at best. Cant really respond to the next statement w/o it becoming a foxnews vs everyone kind of thing and thats not really what we are going for here so I'll leave that alone. I've seen pics like that to try and make the protesters out to be hypocrites but I don't understand it. Should only the Amish be allowed to protest? They are not some sort of anti-tech crowd, quite the opposite. I already addressed your last statement in a previous post. You should respond to one of those so we can discuss where we disagree.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » These people are a joke, I bet if anyone offered any single one of those people a 100k/yr job they'd drop their signboard instantly take up resident as the evil 1% they so fully despise. According to IRS data, the top 1% averages $380,354 at the entry point. 100k doesn't even put you into the top 10%. http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html I'm in the top 25% myself, but I understand the dissatisfaction people (especially students and minimum wage earners) have when the top 6% of earners possess 72% of the nation's financial wealth, while the bottom 80% combined own about 8%. Considering the huge impact of corporate lobbying on government, it leaves them feeling helpless, limited by the economic and political power concentrated in the hands of a small minority.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Congratulations, you've shown a fringe lunatic that'd also fit in at a Tea Party rally. I don't care what time period you're in, someone will always see fit to blame the jews for everything. All protests are going to attract some level of loonies. I could show you some UFO truthers but does that define the reason people are upset? MIC CHECK! I see a lot of people here that don't fully understand what the real point of OWS is. The point is more to gather people to talk about change. So that we can unify on a goal. The type of protest is a Arab Spring also known as the Arabic Rebellions or the Arab Revolutions. When this happened there were so many people and the focus was unclear. But in time they got to there point. Democracy is a strong part of this. Participation in our Democracy! So much is wrong, with so many fingers to point at banks, money in politics, hydrofracking for natural gas and so much more. It is hard to fix on a point for tens of thousands of people. But by getting the people together to talk you can feel the change. 99% is too big to fall. I donno how many of you are close to an Occupy protest. I live in New York and I have been to Zuccotti Park (Liberty Plaza) for OWS marches and to show friends and even some of my family what is going on. Just by walking around and talking to random people about the issues they feel the strongest about, you see that it all comes from the same place. I am proud to be apart of the 99%. If you support OWS or just want to know more about what's happening on the ground you can visit occupywallst.org. They have live stream here from NYC and a lot of other locations in america that are doing the same. I'll leave you all with a few pics I took showing how many people were there yesterday (9/9/11)
 
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » I bet if anyone offered any single one of those people a 100k/yr job they'd drop their signboard instantly take up resident as the evil 1% they so fully despise. now see, thats a no win statement. if they do, then theyre a joke and shouldnt be taken seriously. if they dont, then theyre stupid and deserve to be poor. Asura.Solara said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » These people are a joke, I bet if anyone offered any single one of those people a 100k/yr job they'd drop their signboard instantly take up resident as the evil 1% they so fully despise. According to IRS data, the top 1% averages $380,354 at the entry point. 100k doesn't even put you into the top 10%. http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html I'm in the top 25% myself, but I understand the dissatisfaction people (especially students and minimum wage earners) have when the top 6% of earners possess 72% of the nation's financial wealth, while the bottom 80% combined own about 8%. Considering the huge impact of corporate lobbying on government, it leaves them feeling helpless, limited by the economic and political power concentrated in the hands of a small minority. Minor detail, but I suppose I could also point out that 1%/99% isn't characteristic at all regarding the wealth in america either. I'm not in the 1% either I make somewhere around 50k a year. I understand that people don't want to work for 7 dollars an hour and that everyone wants to "make it", the only difference here is that these people absolutely can't seen any path to get there and are turning to protest (whining and complaining) instead. If they are looking for sympathy about our "Bailout nation" I'm glad to give it to them. I would remind them that their vote counts and that they should vote carefully next year if they want things to change. I would also remind them that it's Obama's justice department that has sent NOONE down on wall street to jail over the housing collapse. If they only want "free stuff", I can only tell them to deal with it and grow up. Most of if not all the people in that picture probably don't make enough to pay taxes.
The top 1 percent pay over 40% of the countries taxes. "occupy" is nothing more then a bunch of derp people, who probably voted for Obama, and now realize hes a failure. Much like someone in an argument whos proved wrong, yet they still won't drop the argument.
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@Potpressure - that all sounds great, and I am sure there is some thoughtful discussion about specific and actual problems going on. But, as someone not near enough to experience it myself, is thoughtful discussion and problem solving really the main theme of what's going on?
While I have a healthy distrust how most media outlets portray things, I have to admit that I'm pretty much convinced the majority of people there care more about clever signs and getting their picture taken, or they have a pretty unrealistic (as in it doesn't make sense, not as in "how we can make the world work" kind of way) view of what they should expect. I'm not saying that they need committees and elected chair-people, and a mission statement - just that it sure looks like a lot people making noise because they are unhappy, without much more substance than that. You act as if the Republicans would have sent people to jail for the housing collapse.
P.S - Whining and complaining is what the USA was founded on. I guess those people should have shut their mouths and took what the British were offering them. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » You act as if the Republicans would have sent people to jail for the housing collapse. P.S - Whining and complaining is what the USA was founded on. I guess those people should have shut their mouths and took what the British were offering them. LOL, c'mon can we keep this at least somewhat out of the gutter? I don't know if the republicans would have or wouldn't have, and neither do you. I'm simply pointing out that despite the fact that Obama hasn't sent anyone to jail, these people will go out and most likely vote for him again. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » I'm not in the 1% either I make somewhere around 50k a year. I understand that people don't want to work for 7 dollars an hour and that everyone wants to "make it", the only difference here is that these people absolutely can't seen any path to get there and are turning to protest (whining and complaining) instead. What paths do you see? Unemployment is out of control, property values are in the tank and cost vs wage continues to spiral. How is the average person's voice to be heard? Quote: If they are looking for sympathy about our "Bailout nation" I'm glad to give it to them. I would remind them that their vote counts and that they should vote carefully next year if they want things to change. I would also remind them that it's Obama's justice department that has sent NOONE down on wall street to jail over the housing collapse. Perhaps they no longer feel as if their vote counts? Your vote only chooses between what is presented to you. What if all options are equally poor? What if you believe a particular kind of change is needed but no candidate will stand for such a change? Does your vote still count if no one will represent you once they are elected? Quote: If they only want "free stuff", I can only tell them to deal with it and grow up. They are certainly being portrayed this way, but I just don't think it is the case. A few other posters have put it pretty eloquently. Fenrir.Terminus said: » While I have a healthy distrust how most media outlets portray things, I have to admit that I'm pretty much convinced the majority of people there care more about clever signs and getting their picture taken, or they have a pretty unrealistic (as in it doesn't make sense, not as in "how we can make the world work" kind of way) view of what they should expect. Why would you be convinced of the motives of people if you haven't asked them yourself. If your only view of them is the one the media is presenting, and you distrust the media to be truthful, then you should be open to all possibilities. The likely truth is that there are many there for the reasons you stated and many others that are not. Quote: I'm not saying that they need committees and elected chair-people, and a mission statement - just that it sure looks like a lot people making noise because they are unhappy, without much more substance than that. These people are tired of the system they are in, I would not suspect they would be eager to try and use the system they are trying to escape to try and change it. They are doing the only thing that is available to them. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Minor detail, but I suppose I could also point out that 1%/99% isn't characteristic at all regarding the wealth in america either. I'm not in the 1% either I make somewhere around 50k a year. I understand that people don't want to work for 7 dollars an hour and that everyone wants to "make it", the only difference here is that these people absolutely can't seen any path to get there and are turning to protest (whining and complaining) instead. If they are looking for sympathy about our "Bailout nation" I'm glad to give it to them. I would remind them that their vote counts and that they should vote carefully next year if they want things to change. I would also remind them that it's Obama's justice department that has sent NOONE down on wall street to jail over the housing collapse. If they only want "free stuff", I can only tell them to deal with it and grow up. I think that's the problem, TARP was a Republican initiative signed into law by Bush while he was still President, and the aftermath was Democrat controlled. Republicans didn't build any punitive measures into the law, and aside from things like Dodd-Frank (which the current crop of Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian candidates are attempting to repeal) Democrats didn't do anything to add accountability either. In both cases, the lobbyists and corporate campaign contributors got their way, not the voters. People without financial means to effect political change can't gain a voice simply by voting one way or the other. What the average citizen wants and what the politicians will interpret as their 'mandate' very rarely line up, which I would assume people are attempting to make their voices heard through another means. Mastermago said: The top 1 percent pay over 40% of the countries taxes. Only if you ignore payroll taxes proportinate to income for lower earners. All things considered, it should be closer to 30-31% across the top 10%. 
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Democrates controlled both houses in 2008 iirc, you cannot blame TARP's creation solely on the "republicans" who proposed it when it takes a majority of legislatures to pass it (as well as the president). Real conservatives don't believe in bailouts. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The American dream isn't to make everyone a winner but these days it sure seems like the same people people keep losing while the same few people keep winning, winning and winning to new heights. While there are legitimate victims and illegitimate successes in our economy, ultimately most people fail or succeed by their own decisions and actions. It's fine to protest the wrongs of the world, but while doing so people need to make sure they're working to correct the wrongs they themselves have done.
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Does anyone actually believe that everyone in the states has the same opportunities and advantages as every other person here?
Fenrir.Camiie said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The American dream isn't to make everyone a winner but these days it sure seems like the same people people keep losing while the same few people keep winning, winning and winning to new heights. While there are legitimate victims and illegitimate successes in our economy, ultimately most people fail or succeed by their own decisions and actions. It's fine to protest the wrongs of the world, but while doing so people need to make sure they're working to correct the wrongs they themselves have done. True, but with education being dashed to pieces in this country is it any surprise when the same people keep winning? Many news sources raise up the banner that the protesters are "dumb" as a reason we should ignore this whole thing yet we're only seeing what was sowed by a public school system based on passing tests rather than critical thinking.  Sell drugs unless you got a nice body.
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Does anyone actually believe that everyone in the states has the same opportunities and advantages as every other person here? No don't be absurd, rich people have more money, money generally enables more opportunity, this is reality. Do you really believe that there is any other place on the planet that has more opportunity available to everyone? Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Democrates controlled both houses in 2008 iirc, you cannot blame TARP solely on the "republicans" who proposed it when it takes a majority of legislatures to pass it (as well as the president). Real conservatives don't believe in bailouts. I didn't blame it solely on Republicans. I said it was initiated and signed by a Republican initiative, and it was handled without meaningful dissent or amendment by Democrats. That clearly shows that I believe there was bipartisan culpability for both TARP and it's lack of results beyond keeping banks solvent and profitable. Apparently your definition of "real conservatives" don't believe in reading for comprehension either. Currency-free economy would offer many opportunities.
for the people in the state, for more effecient energy production, for more effecient infrastructure, more free time for everyone and the people could still live in a wealth way, we would need by far less ressources, and we could prepare ourselves for the time when the world will run out of oil and the transport system crashes. this would be a solution for many Issues. sadly it seems like people need more crisises and wars to realize that the currency-system itself is the issue. if anyone wants to know more about it,feel free to send me a PM. Its like everything else. When something affects you you are all that more likely to react and lash out. When the same thing doesn't affect you anymore then you sit back and watch. People who benefit from the way things are don't want them to change unless it continues to benefit them even more as well as those who it doesn't benefit will either speak out or feel helpless to change the situation (that or have no time as they are working two or three jobs to support their family).
Personally I'm glad they are out their protesting and giving a voice to people. I only wish they had more of a set goal and firm leadership to help the cause to mature and grow in e benficial way. While the protestors may be a bit disorganized in establishing their end game, it does not mean they are just a bunch of whiny kids or people that just want without having to work. It means that they want change and some of them just don't know how to bring that change about just yet. But instead of sitting around and doing nothing they are taking to the streets to add to the voices and to join a cause. When did it become so wrong or bad to speak up? When did we all become so enslaved to the status quo? People should stand up and fight for what they believe in and hey if letting things go as they have been is the path you want to follow then by all means. Fenrir.Camiie said: » While there are legitimate victims and illegitimate successes in our economy, ultimately most people fail or succeed by their own decisions and actions. You sure about that? How about the families in MI and OH that worked at manufacturing facilities. They had a job. Bought a house they could afford. Had kids they were raising and debt they could manage. Then all of a sudden, the company they worked for decided that cheap labor overseas counted for more than the employees they already had so they got laid off. The house they bought all of a sudden plummeted in value because the banks that they financed it through had artificially inflated the value to make more money. And even though the bank was the cause of the over inflated value, and the same bank had to be saved by the tax dollars those workers paid, the bank will not adjust the mortgage and wastes no time in foreclosing asap. Now you have families, who's skill sets are specialized in a field that no longer exists, who's credit is destroyed by foreclosures and mounting debt, and who's kids no longer have a future of furthering their educations because of mom and dads financial woes. This is not an uncommon scenario around the country. How many people did everything they were supposed to do and now are getting screwed up the *** by the companies they were loyal too and by the banks they helped save?
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Does anyone actually believe that everyone in the states has the same opportunities and advantages as every other person here? Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Does anyone actually believe that everyone in the states has the same opportunities and advantages as every other person here? Of course not. That's impossible. No system of government, no law, no program, no economic system, etc. will ever create a truly equal world. Humans just don't work that way. Caitsith.Sai said: » Fenrir.Camiie said: » While there are legitimate victims and illegitimate successes in our economy, ultimately most people fail or succeed by their own decisions and actions. You sure about that? How about the families in MI and OH that worked at manufacturing facilities. They had a job. Bought a house they could afford. Had kids they were raising and debt they could manage. Then all of a sudden, the company they worked for decided that cheap labor overseas counted for more than the employees they already had so they got laid off. The house they bought all of a sudden plummeted in value because the banks that they financed it through had artificially inflated the value to make more money. And even though the bank was the cause of the over inflated value, and the same bank had to be saved by the tax dollars those workers paid, the bank will not adjust the mortgage and wastes no time in foreclosing asap. Now you have families, who's skill sets are specialized in a field that no longer exists, who's credit is destroyed by foreclosures and mounting debt, and who's kids no longer have a future of furthering their educations because of mom and dads financial woes. This is not an uncommon scenario around the country. How many people did everything they were supposed to do and now are getting screwed up the *** by the companies they were loyal too and by the banks they helped save? I sympathize with anyone in this predicament. But how are a bunch of 22 year old dirty hippies sitting on Wall Street going to change/help any of that? |
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