Improving/Rebalancing DNC For The Future

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Improving/Rebalancing DNC for the future
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-28 20:49:35
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Ragnarok.Hevans said:
don't you love when there are like 3 threads about dancer daggers in the top threads? i wasn't going to log on tonight, but now i wanna go find a bunch of trash mobs and tear through them. or mabye work on my twashy.
what else are we supposed to talk about D:
 Ragnarok.Hevans
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By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-07-28 20:51:59
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good point... it's hard to beat sharp pointy things.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-28 20:55:32
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Ragnarok.Hevans said:
good point... it's hard to beat sharp pointy things.
Come AE burn with me for some glavoid pops :(
 Ragnarok.Hevans
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By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-07-28 20:56:48
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glavoid <.< i swore i'd never go back to tahrongi. i dual boxed a whm and just bought the pops. i really should though lol. i'm bored as crap on ragnarok. i usually refuse to log on cause this guy i don't like irl started playing and thinks we should be best friends in game.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-28 20:59:25
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Ragnarok.Hevans said:
glavoid <.< i swore i'd never go back to tahrongi. i dual boxed a whm and just bought the pops. i really should though lol. i'm bored as crap on ragnarok. i usually refuse to log on cause this guy i don't like irl started playing and thinks we should be best friends in game.
Well, it is two for one because I'm working on h2h even. I'm actually on Bismark, so don't go transferring off to Bahamut! D:
 Ragnarok.Hevans
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By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-07-28 21:00:19
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oh god chloris @.@... rangnarok doesn't seem that bad after all.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-28 21:03:04
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Ragnarok.Hevans said:
oh god chloris @.@... rangnarok doesn't seem that bad after all.
D: I had a friend on ragnarok... gave me 4M for haidates. but he vanished :(
 Ragnarok.Hevans
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By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-07-28 21:05:17
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did you ask him for help with chloris/glavoid?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-28 21:06:44
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Ragnarok.Hevans said:
did you ask him for help with chloris/glavoid?
nah he vanished like 19 months ago.
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 06:46:57
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i had a dream last night that ffxi was real
irl animation for samba was so boss
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-29 06:50:34
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic said:
i had a dream last night that ffxi was real
irl animation for samba was so boss
Reenact it and record it.
[+]
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 06:55:50
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also bards didn't play the same crappy song every time
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2011-07-29 06:56:20
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Dancer is a Hybrid job, Hybrid jobs arent That far looked on, its sad but true.

Dancer seems like a nice job(idk, i nvr bothered lvling it), but the truth is, no matter what happens, i cant see it being a better healer then a whm, or a better dd then thf, or a better tank then nin.
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By Pooman 2011-07-29 06:58:07
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than
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 07:03:07
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dancer already pretty much blows thf out of the water damage wise, hence all the constant QQ over DNC from "career THFs"
no one wants it to be a better healer than whm
and dnc can probably tank equivalent to or better than nin on anything that doesn't require migawari
no one with a brain is asking to be better than any particular job at any specific task, just asking for improvements and streamlining to the basic apsects that make the job what it is.
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2011-07-29 07:09:06
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Dnc cant keep hate though....and thf is still needed for treasure hunter.

Also?, how does dnc beat thf in dmg? explain?
 Fenrir.Lillaly
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By Fenrir.Lillaly 2011-07-29 07:14:32
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic said:
dancer already pretty much blows thf out of the water damage wise, hence all the constant QQ over DNC from "career THFs" no one wants it to be a better healer than whm and dnc can probably tank equivalent to or better than nin on anything that doesn't require migawari no one with a brain is asking to be better than any particular job at any specific task, just asking for improvements and streamlining to the basic apsects that make the job what it is.

But in all honesty i doubt i could tank like a DNC at least on my thf.
 
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 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 07:26:23
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1.) once enmity caps, no one keeps hate, the mob will hit the last person who hit it. dnc and/or nin will probably cap hate before anyone else (about the same time). a properly geared dnc (like nin) attacks so fast that keeping the mob's interest isn't a problem at all, not to mention that waltzes, if geared properly, can generate a large amount of quick enmity.

tl;dr you've never seen a good dancer tank something

2.) dancer gets a lot more tools to enhance its damage output than a thf does. dnc has a naturally higher attack speed and the attack difference between thf and dnc is only slight, therefore a dnc will have significantly higher dot (discounting any job abilities that the dnc uses). dnc gets access to subtle blow and caps it effortlessly whereas thf has to make gigantic sacrifices to cap it, so it's also much safer to have a dnc wailing on a mob than a thf. thf is also stuck trying to enhance treasure hunter, whereas a dnc is free to spend their time stabbing things and not caring. yes, f is needed for treasure hunter, but that argument has nothing to do with the thf vs. dnc damage. thf also can't do this:



and dancer is a tp generation machine, as well as being able to increase other party members attack speed by 10% when full haste buffs aren't around. since the climactic flourish update, dnc can also make better use of rudra's due to our force crit abilities not being tied to making monsters ***items.

tl;dr dancer tears ***up while thf is stuck th whoring

i apologize that the dancers you have seen wear full aurore, but if you'd like to see how a real dancer plays, i'd be glad to show you :P

and while yes, there is still a much greater reason to bring a thf than a dnc because of treasure hunter, that's the only reason for choosing thf over dnc. if your dnc has real gear, it will run circles around your thf damagewise.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-07-29 07:31:16
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Haste Samba (35% vs. 25%) and more Dual Wield (48% vs. 33%), we match THF's Triple Attack with twice as much Double Attack thanks to Saber Dance, SE throws STP at us on AF3+2, etc.

DNCs rape THFs 10 ways from Sunday if they have half a brain, but fortunately for thieves most of them don't.
 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-07-29 07:33:17
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so if dnc does a lot more damage than thf, shouldn't they be nerfing dnc to balance jobs? :D
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 07:34:14
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:
Dnc cant keep hate though....and thf is still needed for treasure hunter.

Also?, how does dnc beat thf in dmg? explain?
haste samba. could put them slightly ahead of a thf/nin if both were tanking in a duo making SA TA disregarded if both has the same quality gear and same weapons? I bet on a high evasion mob though thf would pull ahead regardless, that often feint assassion's charge evis would do exceptional nvm a set proc

the dnc will benefit from feint as well, and dnc is more accurate than thf to start with, not to mention assasin's charge is almost wasted on eviscaration, as it's a 6 hit weapon skill to start with when dual-wielded(5 hits + offhand) and you can't go over 8 hits in a single attack round.

i don't know on thf's set bonus proc rate, but dnc's occasional double damage when sambas are active is 5% with 5/5, but realistically, you'd only be wearing 4/5 so 3%.

you shouldn't be fulltiming 5/5 on thf either, so...
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 07:35:30
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Ramuh.Lorzy said:
so if dnc does a lot more damage than thf, shouldn't they be nerfing dnc to balance jobs? :D

except thf has treasure hunter
thieves could have a job trait that gives all NMs the ability to cast death and still you'd take a thf.
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-07-29 07:36:13
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic said:
Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:
Dnc cant keep hate though....and thf is still needed for treasure hunter.

Also?, how does dnc beat thf in dmg? explain?
haste samba. could put them slightly ahead of a thf/nin if both were tanking in a duo making SA TA disregarded if both has the same quality gear and same weapons? I bet on a high evasion mob though thf would pull ahead regardless, that often feint assassion's charge evis would do exceptional nvm a set proc

the dnc will benefit from feint as well, and dnc is more accurate than thf to start with, not to mention assasin's charge is almost wasted on eviscaration, as it's a 6 hit weapon skill to start with when dual-wielded(5 hits + offhand) and you can't go over 8 hits in a single attack round.

i don't know on thf's set bonus proc rate, but dnc's occasional double damage when sambas are active is 5% with 5/5, but realistically, you'd only be wearing 4/5 so 3%.

you shouldn't be fulltiming 5/5 on thf either, so...
scenario was dnc+healer vs thf+healer, but yeah.
 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-07-29 07:38:10
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic said:
Ramuh.Lorzy said:
so if dnc does a lot more damage than thf, shouldn't they be nerfing dnc to balance jobs? :D

except thf has treasure hunter
thieves could have a job trait that gives all NMs the ability to cast death and still you'd take a thf.
well i was half-joking, but it's not like dnc can't do things that thf can't.
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2011-07-29 07:40:12
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Yeah kinda bs if you ask me, I can see dnc beating thf in dmg, but raping it in dmg? I doubt it
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 07:40:55
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i interpreted tanking in duo as a thf + dnc duo tanking a mob and seeing who did more.

even then, feint lasts for 30 seconds whereas dnc's native higher accuracy should pull out ahead if the fight lasts for any significant amount of time.

and if it doesn't, who cares, because it's something you can kill in 30 seconds.
 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-07-29 07:45:40
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nah it wouldn't have made sense that way, because of the mention of haste samba and sata. but i agreed with what you said.
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-29 07:49:43
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yeah, reading through it again, it wouldnt' make sense that way, was a misinterpretation on my part, but it doesn't change much :D
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-07-29 07:49:51
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It doesn't matter how you set it up. Dancer has a huge delay reduction lead on THF and THF has no notable advantages. Dancer wins.
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