Abortion

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Abortion
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-07 10:59:04
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The thing though is the adoption homes and already have a large number of kids that aren't getting adopted. Adding more kids to that doesn't really help.
 Sylph.Ixe
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By Sylph.Ixe 2011-07-07 11:01:01
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Giving up a child for adoption is another option. There are plenty of couples who can't have kids who will happily adopt a newly born child. There is never much discussion given to this as an alternative in these debates about abortion.
Theres the problem :)
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-07-07 11:04:04
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Giving up a child for adoption is another option. There are plenty of couples who can't have kids who will happily adopt a newly born child. There is never much discussion given to this as an alternative in these debates about abortion.

I believe that putting a child up for adoption is also a choice that can be made by parents who are unable to take care of their offspring but ultimately the mother/father should have a variety of options available to them including abortion.

Adoption agencies would be completely overwhelmed if your only options were to keep the child or place them in the adoption network.
 Sylph.Ixe
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By Sylph.Ixe 2011-07-07 11:06:58
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Oh yeah, I'm not proposing that abortion should never be an option. Just that adoption doesn't seem to be mentioned much...
Its costly also
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-07 11:14:17
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Right but the argument seems to be if someone is not capable of raising a child properly, either through lack of finances or just something to do with their age or personality, their kid will end up in foster care or become a criminal. So abortion is the best option.

All I'm saying is that adoption is also an option :) Whether its expensive and all the other attached matters wasn't really coming into my thoughts... sorry!

from page 2:

Bahamut.Jetackuu said:
Also adoption option is a joke.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-07-07 11:24:54
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Why is it a joke?

Right now the systems have plenty waiting to be adopted. If you don't get scooped up as a baby, odds are you're gonna be stuck in limbo.

People are willing to adopt babies but the farther away you are from birth, the more you're seen as damaged goods.
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:26:18
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Adoption is fine if you can find someone who wants your child ahead of time.

It's a lot of *** work though, and unless I'm getting paid a nice sum I'd rather not carry a child for the sake of being "a good person". Cells don't have feelings etc.
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By Halfpint 2011-07-07 11:33:11
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what would you advise..........(this may be a bit over the top but it is a true situation)..
scenario : couple gets married, he moves her away from her family and friends so she has not suport system. She is Completely dependent on him for everything, food, clothing, shelter, transportation.

Everything fine for 1 year, then he begins abusing her physically and mentally. He wants kids so he forces sex(basically spousal rape) on his wife until she gets pregnant. He continues to abuse her through pregnancy, she almost loses the baby 3 times because he is hitting her in the abdomin and kidneys. She is beaten so badly on one occassion she ends up in the hospital. While there she tries to get nurses to understand she want help but he is always present so her attempts are fruitless.
She has baby and everything is ok for 3 months. He then gets jealous of the time she spends with baby and begins to abuse her again. He also becomes violent with the baby when it cries, throwing it into the crib or onto the sofa or chair, then he starts hitting her for not being able to keep the baby "under control".
When the first child is 14 mo.old she becomes pregnant again but does not want to bring another child into the relationship, continuing the pregnancy is not an option because he has already said if she gets pregnant he will "beat the baby out of her, even if he has to kill her".

For those rightious pro-lifers... would you deny her an abortion??

which is worse, him killing the mom, or removing a bunch of cells at an early stage?
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:33:46
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Hmmm but it has nothing to do with being a "good person" etc.

But I'd rather not open up a can of worms now. People are only going to assume I'm saying that adoption is an automatic better choice than abortion, which I'm not. I don't have enough energy to debate it more.

If my best friend couldn't have children, I found put I was pregnant and didn't want, and she wanted the child, I'd most likely go through with it and give her the child. I don't care enough about other's peoples want for children to go through the pain/inconvenience of childbirth without being paid a lot. <_< /shellfish.
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:36:28
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Halfpint said:
what would you advise..........(this may be a bit over the top but it is a true situation)..
scenario : couple gets married, he moves her away from her family and friends so she has not suport system. She is Completely dependent on him for everything, food, clothing, shelter, transportation.

Everything fine for 1 year, then he begins abusing her physically and mentally. He wants kids so he forces sex(basically spousal rape) on his wife until she gets pregnant. He continues to abuse her through pregnancy, she almost loses the baby 3 times because he is hitting her in the abdomin and kidneys. She is beaten so badly on one occassion she ends up in the hospital. While there she tries to get nurses to understand she want help but he is always present so her attempts are fruitless.
She has baby and everything is ok for 3 months. He then gets jealous of the time she spends with baby and begins to abuse her again. He also becomes violent with the baby when it cries, throwing it into the crib or onto the sofa or chair, then he starts hitting her for not being able to keep the baby "under control".
When the first child is 14 mo.old she becomes pregnant again but does not want to bring another child into the relationship, continuing the pregnancy is not an option because he has already said if she gets pregnant he will "beat the baby out of her, even if he has to kill her".

For those rightious pro-lifers... would you deny her an abortion??

which is worse, him killing the mom, or removing a bunch of cells at an early stage?

She should murder her husband and have the baby. I'm serious.
 
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By 2011-07-07 11:36:37
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 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:40:08
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Sylph.Anjali said:
Leviathan.Niniann said:
Sylph.Anjali said:
Hmmm but it has nothing to do with being a "good person" etc.

But I'd rather not open up a can of worms now. People are only going to assume I'm saying that adoption is an automatic better choice than abortion, which I'm not. I don't have enough energy to debate it more.

If my best friend couldn't have children, I found put I was pregnant and didn't want, and she wanted the child, I'd most likely go through with it and give her the child. I don't care enough about other's peoples want for children to go through the pain/inconvenience of childbirth without being paid a lot. <_< /shellfish.

I respect your opinion on that :) My points were really directed at people who take this debate to the extremes. I'm calling it a day now though!

I figured. I don't agree with putting your child up for adoption unless you find people ahead of time. My aunt couldn't have children and adopted a child from an orphanage. I wouldn't trade my cousin for anything, but he has tons of mental problems (bi-polar, terets(sp?), had developmental problems) because he was stuck in a crib until he was like 3, never taught anything and neglected.

Annnyway. Yeeeah.
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:41:58
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
I think someone should have the right to decide to abort or not but once the fetus has reached a certain stage of developement the choice should be removed and abortion shouldn't be allowed as viable birth control

There is a big difference between killing something with fingers toes and sentience versus killing a multi celled organism with no thought processes above survival instincts

We kill bugs, pests and animals to eat. We kill lame animals. Animals kill their young for various reasons. Why are human babies special?
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By zahrah 2011-07-07 11:44:34
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Leviathan.Niniann said:
Halfpint said:
what would you advise..........(this may be a bit over the top but it is a true situation)..
scenario : couple gets married, he moves her away from her family and friends so she has not suport system. She is Completely dependent on him for everything, food, clothing, shelter, transportation.

Everything fine for 1 year, then he begins abusing her physically and mentally. He wants kids so he forces sex(basically spousal rape) on his wife until she gets pregnant. He continues to abuse her through pregnancy, she almost loses the baby 3 times because he is hitting her in the abdomin and kidneys. She is beaten so badly on one occassion she ends up in the hospital. While there she tries to get nurses to understand she want help but he is always present so her attempts are fruitless.
She has baby and everything is ok for 3 months. He then gets jealous of the time she spends with baby and begins to abuse her again. He also becomes violent with the baby when it cries, throwing it into the crib or onto the sofa or chair, then he starts hitting her for not being able to keep the baby "under control".
When the first child is 14 mo.old she becomes pregnant again but does not want to bring another child into the relationship, continuing the pregnancy is not an option because he has already said if she gets pregnant he will "beat the baby out of her, even if he has to kill her".

For those rightious pro-lifers... would you deny her an abortion??

which is worse, him killing the mom, or removing a bunch of cells at an early stage?

She should murder her husband and have the baby. I'm serious.

Yeah...I'm going with Nini on this one.

Where did you get this story from, Halfpint?
 
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By 2011-07-07 11:45:30
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 Leviathan.Angelskiss
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By Leviathan.Angelskiss 2011-07-07 11:46:57
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Halfpint said:
what would you advise..........(this may be a bit over the top but it is a true situation)..
scenario : couple gets married, he moves her away from her family and friends so she has not suport system. She is Completely dependent on him for everything, food, clothing, shelter, transportation.

Everything fine for 1 year, then he begins abusing her physically and mentally. He wants kids so he forces sex(basically spousal rape) on his wife until she gets pregnant. He continues to abuse her through pregnancy, she almost loses the baby 3 times because he is hitting her in the abdomin and kidneys. She is beaten so badly on one occassion she ends up in the hospital. While there she tries to get nurses to understand she want help but he is always present so her attempts are fruitless.
She has baby and everything is ok for 3 months. He then gets jealous of the time she spends with baby and begins to abuse her again. He also becomes violent with the baby when it cries, throwing it into the crib or onto the sofa or chair, then he starts hitting her for not being able to keep the baby "under control".
When the first child is 14 mo.old she becomes pregnant again but does not want to bring another child into the relationship, continuing the pregnancy is not an option because he has already said if she gets pregnant he will "beat the baby out of her, even if he has to kill her".

For those rightious pro-lifers... would you deny her an abortion??

which is worse, him killing the mom, or removing a bunch of cells at an early stage?
I would recommend one of the THOUSANDS of renewal houses or battered women shelters and help her SAVE HERSELF and her CHILDREN. If she is in the hospital or takes the child to the DR she has an opportunity to say help me.
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:50:51
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
Leviathan.Niniann said:
Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
I think someone should have the right to decide to abort or not but once the fetus has reached a certain stage of developement the choice should be removed and abortion shouldn't be allowed as viable birth control There is a big difference between killing something with fingers toes and sentience versus killing a multi celled organism with no thought processes above survival instincts
We kill bugs, pests and animals to eat. We kill lame animals. Animals kill their young for various reasons. Why are human babies special?
Find a bug that's sentient and we'll talk. my post said I would allow abortion when refering to a stage at a similar level you refer to

Even newly born babies aren't as intelligent as people try to make them out to be. Pigs, for example, are much much smarter. We still eat them.

I guess my point is babies are lower on the totempole than our food animals yet we still claim they deserve life. I'm not saying I'd like go up and kill a baby, but I'm not seeing how their life is "important". Wish I could make better arguments, phones are crippling. I can explain in better detail when I get home.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-07 11:52:47
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Leviathan.Niniann said:
Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
Leviathan.Niniann said:
Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
I think someone should have the right to decide to abort or not but once the fetus has reached a certain stage of developement the choice should be removed and abortion shouldn't be allowed as viable birth control There is a big difference between killing something with fingers toes and sentience versus killing a multi celled organism with no thought processes above survival instincts
We kill bugs, pests and animals to eat. We kill lame animals. Animals kill their young for various reasons. Why are human babies special?
Find a bug that's sentient and we'll talk. my post said I would allow abortion when refering to a stage at a similar level you refer to

Even newly born babies aren't as intelligent as people try to make them out to be. Pigs, for example, are much much smarter. We still eat them.

I guess my point is babies are lower on the totempole than our food animals yet we still claim they deserve life. I'm not saying I'd like go up and kill a baby, but I'm not seeing how their life is "important". Wish I could make better arguments, phones are crippling. I can explain in better detail when I get home.
Every animal preserves its own species.
 
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-07 11:55:38
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Animals are much smarter at birth, they even know how to walk right away >_>
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-07 11:55:40
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@angel: Assuminh she can get help before he kills her. @@;

@Seha: I'm not sure what you're saying. Many animals reject their children for no apparent reason and let them die. I know there's cases where tigers have done this. I can cite sources later.
 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-07-07 11:56:09
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
I think someone should have the right to decide to abort or not but once the fetus has reached a certain stage of developement the choice should be removed and abortion shouldn't be allowed as viable birth control

There is a big difference between killing something with fingers toes and sentience versus killing a multi celled organism with no thought processes above survival instincts

This. IMO, if you haven't had it done by the first 8 - 12 weeks, you shouldn't be able to.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-07 11:58:07
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Bismarck.Nevill said:
Bismarck.Josiahfk said:
I think someone should have the right to decide to abort or not but once the fetus has reached a certain stage of developement the choice should be removed and abortion shouldn't be allowed as viable birth control

There is a big difference between killing something with fingers toes and sentience versus killing a multi celled organism with no thought processes above survival instincts

This. IMO, if you haven't had it done by the first 8 - 12 weeks, you shouldn't be able to.

The time limit is like.. 24 weeks >_>

Edit: depends on country of course, here it's 18 I think. Also 24 seems to be the upper limit in the UK
 Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2011-07-07 12:10:07
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Leviathan.Niniann said:
@angel: Assuminh she can get help before he kills her. @@;

@Seha: I'm not sure what you're saying. Many animals reject their children for no apparent reason and let them die. I know there's cases where tigers have done this. I can cite sources later.
Mothers will often abandon the runt of the litter too :/
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